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Old 05-04-2015   #776
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I think youre losing half of the functionality of the 99 and the helix by not running the speakers active. Just seems like a bit of a waste

I love to overthink things.
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Old 05-04-2015   #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
I don't know how the processing of the Helix compares to the P99RS, but it does seem like a waste to spend $1,200 on the Pioneer just to use it as a controller. It's great looking, and well built, but that alone doesn't make it worth $1,200. I can't imagine the Helix DSP offering much better tuning options, but again, I don't know what it can do. I will say though, if you need more processing than the P99RS you have either an extremely advanced system, or you don't know how to use the tools that the Pioneer offers. Others will have to comment on the Helix unit, but it sounds to me like you spent $1,200 on one of the best head units made, just to use it as a controller.
The P99rs is well worth the coin for what it can do. That being said, it is not even close in function to what the Helix can do. I myself used the P99rs with a Helix and it was an awesome combo. I also used the Helix with the DRX 9255 and the P99rs sounds better, cleaner with the Helix than the DRX. My advice, find a used Pioneer DEX-P9 head unit and use it with the Helix. It is just as clean sounding as the P99rs and can be found for around $350. I actually just bought a DEX-P9 myself to use with the Helix and the p99rs is going in another vehicle.

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Old 05-04-2015   #778
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EQ per channel is the difference. That much is obvious and well worth consideration of using a separate dsp with another source instead of an all-in-one unit.

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Old 05-04-2015   #779
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy View Post
EQ per channel is the difference. That much is obvious and well worth consideration of using a separate dsp with another source instead of an all-in-one unit.
Is it that much more valuable though? I'm askimg honestly. Parametric is an advantage, I'll admit that, but what does the ability to EQ per channel offer over EQ per side? Since each driver is used within a limited passband, why would that driver need EQ options outside of that passband? Again, not stirring the pot, just trying to understand what benefit you get from driver dependant EQ vs. left/right EQ.

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Old 05-04-2015   #780
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In my opinion.... yes. Crossovers are only effective against EQ bleed through when the points are wayyy out of the way. Harmonics can be a mofo, but can also play into a tune if you're careful. I suppose if one isn't that picky and lucks up (or maybe just skill) in choosing the right drivers that work well for the situation. Often not the case especially in the way most of us mix & match drivers.

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Old 05-04-2015   #781
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I'm pretty sure the phase adjustment is only 180 degrees except on the sub which is 90 degree steps.

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Old 05-04-2015   #782
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
I'm pretty sure the phase adjustment is only 180 degrees except on the sub which is 90 degree steps.
ah damn your right. idk where i heard that from. but the sub channel is 22.5 degree adjustments. at least thats where it matters most


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Old 05-04-2015   #783
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Lots of things to consider so far. Keep it coming. No time to reply right now. I'm off to work.
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Old 05-04-2015   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
I'm pretty sure the phase adjustment is only 180 degrees except on the sub which is 90 degree steps.
Phase on the new Helix 3.xx software is 11.25 degree increments on all channels.

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Old 05-05-2015   #785
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Ahh I knew it


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Old 05-05-2015   #786
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
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I myself used the P99rs with a Helix and it was an awesome combo. I also used the Helix with the DRX 9255 and the P99rs sounds better, cleaner with the Helix than the DRX. My advice, find a used Pioneer DEX-P9 head unit and use it with the Helix. It is just as clean sounding as the P99rs and can be found for around $350. I actually just bought a DEX-P9 myself to use with the Helix and the p99rs is going in another vehicle.
Reading through the manual it states a 4v max on the RCA inputs. You said you had no problems. Am I misinterpreting the manual?

I did look at P9's but they are getting pretty old. There is one available right now but the Build date is March 2003 and he wants $795!!!

I'm going to stick with the P99. Now I just need to resolve this nagging input voltage question.
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Old 05-08-2015   #787
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

We'll I was all set to pull the trigger on a DSP Pro when just a few minutes ago I got an answer back from Helix about my concern of the 5v preamp out of the 99. Here is their answer...

Dear Mr. Haydel,

your concerns are justified as this is an critical issue.
If your source can deliver higher output voltage than the A/D converters can handle then digital clipping may occur if you crank up the volume of your head unit too far.
Digital clipping is way more dangerous for loudspeakers than analog clipping.
That’s the reason why we cannot recommend the combination of the DEX-P99 with the Helix DSP.

Regards,
Robin Krichel

Robin Krichel
Technical Director
AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
mail: robin.krichel@audiotec-fischer.com
web: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
USt-IdNr.: DE 125919505
Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer




Von: Dale Haydel [mailto:tubesrule@earthlink.net]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Mai 2015 18:47
An: Audiotec Fischer Team
Betreff: A question from Dale Haydel (Audiotec Fischer GmbH) [Scanned by Avira Exchange Security]

Audiotec Fischer GmbH

A customer, Dale Haydel, has a question about: HELIX DSP - HP58209.
I'm considering getting a DSP but I'm concerned about the RCA input voltage. My head unit preamp out is rated at 5V (Pioneer DEX-99RS). Is this too high of an input voltage?
Thanks,
Dale
Here is the product link:

HELIX DSP

Regards, your Audiotec Fischer GmbH Team

Audiotec Fischer GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
Germany

Tel.: +49 2972 97880
Fax: +49 2972 978888
E-Mail: contact@audiotec-fischer.com
Internet: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio

So I guess it is back to researching different DSP's. Any thoughts on what to look at next? The Helix was the perfect size too! I know the 99 at full out is 5v but at that level am I at ear drum blowing out volume? The Helix does have a clipping indicator. What type of display is volume shown on the 99? Is it bars or a number. Couldn't I set up to find out what that max indication is and just stay below it? What to do, what to do???
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Old 05-08-2015   #788
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You can always just not turn it up past a certain point, or maybe even use some sort of line converter


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Old 05-08-2015   #789
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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You can always just not turn it up past a certain point, or maybe even use some sort of line converter
I think not turning it up past a certain point would work too. I could go to 10 but NOT 11! I just have to figure out where is 11 is at on the dial. I guess it's time to pull out the manual to see what type of display is shown for volume level.
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Old 05-08-2015   #790
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I think not turning it up past a certain point would work too. I could go to 10 but NOT 11! I just have to figure out where is 11 is at on the dial. I guess it's time to pull out the manual to see what type of display is shown for volume level.
The P99rs goes up to 62 on the volume. I would start to get the clip light on the Helix at about 58 depending on the recording (4volts output from the P99). Just turn your gains on the Helix all the way to the left, play a 1k sine wave track at 0db and slowly go up on the volume till the light comes on. Note where you are on the volume and don't go past that point.

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Old 05-08-2015   #791
 
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Thumbs up Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by narvarr View Post
The P99rs goes up to 62 on the volume. I would start to get the clip light on the Helix at about 58 depending on the recording (4volts output from the P99). Just turn your gains on the Helix all the way to the left, play a 1k sine wave track at 0db and slowly go up on the volume till the light comes on. Note where you are on the volume and don't go past that point.
Thank you! I knew there had to be a simple solution to this once I had all the facts. This is the best news I've had all night. It's been a hell night at work. Anyway thank you again. You've made me happy and my dealer will be happy too!
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Old 05-08-2015   #792
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Is it that much more valuable though? I'm askimg honestly. Parametric is an advantage, I'll admit that, but what does the ability to EQ per channel offer over EQ per side? Since each driver is used within a limited passband, why would that driver need EQ options outside of that passband? Again, not stirring the pot, just trying to understand what benefit you get from driver dependant EQ vs. left/right EQ.
Cars running only the p99 have won competitions. So to get your sound to that level, no it's not really essential. But it remains a useful feature. I find it really useful when tweaking the response, specially around the xover point. 50% of the benefit is the ability to eq each driver in its passband independently and 50% is the ability to eq a driver in it's stop band without affecting the other drivers. It cleans up the sound a lot.

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Old 05-08-2015   #793
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Orange View Post
We'll I was all set to pull the trigger on a DSP Pro when just a few minutes ago I got an answer back from Helix about my concern of the 5v preamp out of the 99. Here is their answer...

Dear Mr. Haydel,

your concerns are justified as this is an critical issue.
If your source can deliver higher output voltage than the A/D converters can handle then digital clipping may occur if you crank up the volume of your head unit too far.
Digital clipping is way more dangerous for loudspeakers than analog clipping.
That’s the reason why we cannot recommend the combination of the DEX-P99 with the Helix DSP.

Regards,
Robin Krichel

Robin Krichel
Technical Director
AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
mail: robin.krichel@audiotec-fischer.com
web: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
USt-IdNr.: DE 125919505
Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer




Von: Dale Haydel [mailto:tubesrule@earthlink.net]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Mai 2015 18:47
An: Audiotec Fischer Team
Betreff: A question from Dale Haydel (Audiotec Fischer GmbH) [Scanned by Avira Exchange Security]

Audiotec Fischer GmbH

A customer, Dale Haydel, has a question about: HELIX DSP - HP58209.
I'm considering getting a DSP but I'm concerned about the RCA input voltage. My head unit preamp out is rated at 5V (Pioneer DEX-99RS). Is this too high of an input voltage?
Thanks,
Dale
Here is the product link:

HELIX DSP

Regards, your Audiotec Fischer GmbH Team

Audiotec Fischer GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
Germany

Tel.: +49 2972 97880
Fax: +49 2972 978888
E-Mail: contact@audiotec-fischer.com
Internet: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio

So I guess it is back to researching different DSP's. Any thoughts on what to look at next? The Helix was the perfect size too! I know the 99 at full out is 5v but at that level am I at ear drum blowing out volume? The Helix does have a clipping indicator. What type of display is volume shown on the 99? Is it bars or a number. Couldn't I set up to find out what that max indication is and just stay below it? What to do, what to do???
I would imagine a similar response if you asked any Speaker manufacturer if its okay to use a 200 watt amp on their 150 watt speaker. They do have to cover themselves. But like you said, dont go Spinal Tap on it. LOL

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Old 05-08-2015   #794
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserSVT View Post
I would imagine a similar response if you asked any Speaker manufacturer if its okay to use a 200 watt amp on their 150 watt speaker. They do have to cover themselves. But like you said, dont go Spinal Tap on it. LOL
Very good point. Ah yes it's when the lawyers become involved. But the solution has been reached with navarr's assistance, 62 = 11. So I've ordered a Helix DSP Pro. I should have it early next week. Actually I guess it's time I started my own Build thread.
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Old 05-11-2015   #795
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

when playing through the USB off a standalone HD, do all the files have to be in the same format? or can you have an assorted collection of wav and mp3 files?
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Old 05-11-2015   #796
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

You can have different formats, but only ALAC will actually use the DAC in the P99RS for conversion. Everything else will be LPCM which means the iPod will do the decoding and send it in a digital file to the HU. Sound quality in ALAC is very good if the system is tuned right due to the fact that the HU has some amazing DAC's
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Old 05-12-2015   #797
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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You can have different formats, but only ALAC will actually use the DAC in the P99RS for conversion. Everything else will be LPCM which means the iPod will do the decoding and send it in a digital file to the HU. Sound quality in ALAC is very good if the system is tuned right due to the fact that the HU has some amazing DAC's
Are you sure about that? My manual is in French, but I can pull up a PDF online.

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Old 05-13-2015   #798
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

im sure. But do t have to take my word for it, contact pioneer and they'll tell you the same. That's how I got my information, directly from them. ALAC is the way to go����
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Old 05-13-2015   #799
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

But, even if the ipod does the decoding and sends a digital file to the P99RS, the P99RS still has to do a DA conversion. Unless I'm missing something, if the source is connected to the P99RS via USB, the P99RS must do DA conversion. Regardless of the file format the data is going through the P99RS DAC.

2005 Subaru Impreza RS:
Pioneer P99RS / Alpine PDX-V9 and PDX-F4 / Melodic Acoustic Euphoria 6.5 / Pioneer Stage 4 midrange / LPG / 2x AE SBP 15
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Old 05-13-2015   #800
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

So now you have the iPods inferior, by far I might add, DAC doing the actual conversion, sending it LPCM to the HU, then the HU has to do DA conversion again from a source that is already inferior. The one that does the conversion 1st sets the standard, so it doesn't matter now that the HU is doing conversion. Garbage in, garbage out. Also, now your converting twice, and anytime your converting, there is signal degradation. If you use ALAC, you're not doing any DA conversion in iPod, you're just sending a raw digital bitstream to the HU, and the HU is taking care of everything. So you're using a much better DAC, you're only converting once, and since all conversion is done in the HU, the signal path is so much shorter that you get better sound. ALAC is the way to go, everything else is inferior in this particular HU.
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