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Old 12-04-2016   #951
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
Me too - I bought the new Sony and tried it side by side with my P99 and I have to say the Sony molested it properly....

Sold the P99 after that.... down side to the Sony is the need for a external DSP which makes the setup nearly twice as much as a P99...


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Right that's the thing.. I've heard stellar competition-worthy 99RS systems without external DSP's. the comparable Sony setup requires ext DSP, thus $2000 you're into it by then before amps. Ouchie!


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Old 12-04-2016   #952
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Right that's the thing.. I've heard stellar competition-worthy 99RS systems without external DSP's. the comparable Sony setup requires ext DSP, thus $2000 you're into it by then before amps. Ouchie!


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Soon prices will drop and you will be able to get the combo for $1500 more or less... the reality is for the extra coin it's worth it...

CDs are a dying breed right now... they going to be like VHS and BETAMAX as soon you will be buying Hi-Res files at any music site as nowadays buying a CD for 2 decent tracks isn't worth it... when buying the 2 tracks in Hi-Res format cheaper is going to be the way we listen to music...

Also none of the OEM radio can be removed these days...


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Old 12-04-2016   #953
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Eh. Idk. Im just nor buying that the 99rs sounds better than the 80prs. Or hell, skipping the headunit all together and direct usb to ext dsp.

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Old 12-04-2016   #954
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Eh. Idk. Im just nor buying that the 99rs sounds better than the 80prs. Or hell, skipping the headunit all together and direct usb to ext dsp.

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By itself the fidelity and output strength is great. Limiting factor is 31-band graphic which is easily surpassed by outbound DSP's like Helix, and having individual driver tuning verses just left and right.

I'll report back once she's in my take on 99 vs 80


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Old 12-04-2016   #955
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I played with the 80 in my brothers car... it feels really cheap IMHO doesn't sound bad but I do believe the 99 does sound better and for the additional features over the 80 alone is worth the upgrade IMHO....


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Old 12-04-2016   #956
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
I played with the 80 in my brothers car... it feels really cheap IMHO doesn't sound bad but I do believe the 99 does sound better and for the additional features over the 80 alone is worth the upgrade IMHO....


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I have all three

The 880 sounds better than the 80 the 99 sounds better than the 80 but the 880 sounds better than the 99 as far as dac goes IMO . That's subjective though

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 12-05-2016   #957
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Then what about bypassing a HU altogether? Such as phone to ext dsp. How do the two most popular dsp(c-dsp and helix) DACs compare to the mentioned headunits.

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Old 12-05-2016   #958
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Then what about bypassing a HU altogether? Such as phone to ext dsp. How do the two most popular dsp(c-dsp and helix) DACs compare to the mentioned headunits.

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Well look out for the DSP PRO 2 with 32bit dacs and USB input... no HU required...

Interesting prospect...


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Old 12-05-2016   #959
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I'm currently running a P99rs but I have loaded 192/24 and 96/24 FLAC tracks onto my iPhone. Even with the P99rs' 24 bit DACs I can tell an improvement in the spacial qualities of the music with the higher resolution tracks over CDs. I've also heard several Sony GS9s, and they do sound better than the P99rs, I feel the differences are more to do with the higher resolution recordings than the hardware itself. It's maybe a 70/30 split with 70% of the improvement going to the recording format and 30% going to the upgraded hardware of the GS9.


Quote:
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By itself the fidelity and output strength is great. Limiting factor is 31-band graphic which is easily surpassed by outbound DSP's like Helix, and having individual driver tuning verses just left and right.
While newer DSPs do have more tuning options than the P99rs, the P99rs does have enough tuning capabilities to produce incredible sound in pretty much all systems. When I was in my early years of competing, an old competitor told me once "having more stuff in your system could mean that there's more stuff to get wrong." To normal people the P99 has more than enough tuning stuff to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
Well look out for the DSP PRO 2 with 32bit dacs and USB input... no HU required...
Exactly! I'm waiting on the Zapco HDR units to come out that have built in wi-fi and 192/24 processing. I may even take my P99rs out and put the factory head unit back in (for CD and radio use only) since I will be able to stream directly from my iPhone to the processor.
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Old 12-05-2016   #960
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by cmusic View Post
I'm currently running a P99rs but I have loaded 192/24 and 96/24 FLAC tracks onto my iPhone. Even with the P99rs' 24 bit DACs I can tell an improvement in the spacial qualities of the music with the higher resolution tracks over CDs. I've also heard several Sony GS9s, and they do sound better than the P99rs, I feel the differences are more to do with the higher resolution recordings than the hardware itself. It's maybe a 70/30 split with 70% of the improvement going to the recording format and 30% going to the upgraded hardware of the GS9.









While newer DSPs do have more tuning options than the P99rs, the P99rs does have enough tuning capabilities to produce incredible sound in pretty much all systems. When I was in my early years of competing, an old competitor told me once "having more stuff in your system could mean that there's more stuff to get wrong." To normal people the P99 has more than enough tuning stuff to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing.







Exactly! I'm waiting on the Zapco HDR units to come out that have built in wi-fi and 192/24 processing. I may even take my P99rs out and put the factory head unit back in (for CD and radio use only) since I will be able to stream directly from my iPhone to the processor.

Yeah that's strong. What's pricing on the new HDR units?


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Old 12-05-2016   #961
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmusic View Post
I'm currently running a P99rs but I have loaded 192/24 and 96/24 FLAC tracks onto my iPhone. Even with the P99rs' 24 bit DACs I can tell an improvement in the spacial qualities of the music with the higher resolution tracks over CDs. I've also heard several Sony GS9s, and they do sound better than the P99rs, I feel the differences are more to do with the higher resolution recordings than the hardware itself. It's maybe a 70/30 split with 70% of the improvement going to the recording format and 30% going to the upgraded hardware of the GS9.









While newer DSPs do have more tuning options than the P99rs, the P99rs does have enough tuning capabilities to produce incredible sound in pretty much all systems. When I was in my early years of competing, an old competitor told me once "having more stuff in your system could mean that there's more stuff to get wrong." To normal people the P99 has more than enough tuning stuff to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing.







Exactly! I'm waiting on the Zapco HDR units to come out that have built in wi-fi and 192/24 processing. I may even take my P99rs out and put the factory head unit back in (for CD and radio use only) since I will be able to stream directly from my iPhone to the processor.


For me the Sony was a major step ahead of the p99... which had nothing to do with the recordings as they were all AIFF recordings through iTunes. So nothing special in terms of bitrates

I have tried a 192bitrate track and it was spectacular (came with the LG V20) once you listen to the Sony even at its lowest capabilities you realize how redundant CDs are...


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Old 12-05-2016   #962
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Yeah that's strong. What's pricing on the new HDR units?


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John told me around $1000 for the 12 channel and $1500 for the 16 channel... but it was nearly a year ago...


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Old 12-05-2016   #963
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
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For me the Sony was a major step ahead of the p99... which had nothing to do with the recordings as they were all AIFF recordings through iTunes. So nothing special in terms of bitrates

I have tried a 192bitrate track and it was spectacular (came with the LG V20) once you listen to the Sony even at its lowest capabilities you realize how redundant CDs are...


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I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone.

I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone.

I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.
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Old 12-05-2016   #964
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone.

I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone.

I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.

Agreed ^^^^

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Old 12-05-2016   #965
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone.

I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone.

I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.


That's just it hi-res has been circling the audio industry for years - it took Sony to throw the gauntlet and the rest followed... the prospect of the Zapco HD DSP is intriguing - especially with the Sabre 32bit dacs - but the HU less Helix option makes sense...


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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Maybe I'm on glue but I personally didn't notice a significant difference *audibly* between the GS9 and the P99. I wrote a bit about this in my build log so I'm gonna save myself some trouble and just do copy/paste. This was with standard CD quality audio. Apples to apples. It's a lot to read but I think it may be useful information for some.



Quote:
Originally Posted by erinh View Post
I've been doing some testing on the Sony and the P99. I'll post up more details later but for now I just wanted to share some pictures...









Quote:
Originally Posted by erinh View Post
Alrighty!... got my little one in bed and slapped my new headphones on. Ready for this!? Let's go!


My purpose in bench testing was a) see how I like the control of the Sony and b) do some basic testing of the electronics.

a) Well, this one's still TBD. I need more time and I really should install this in the car to say for certain how cumbersome (or not) using the iPhone for display is. So, let's get to b)...

b) The P99 is a great headunit so having it on hand to compare the Sony directly to made life a bit easier. First up: pre-out voltage.
I took a 1khz, 0dB tone and played it on both the Sony and the P99 (I tested both AUX and USB inputs; same results).

The results were as follows:
Pioneer P99 doesn't clip at full volume (62/62), with a measured voltage of 4.73 Vrms. I finally got the unit to clip with a boosted tone and have determined the P99's clipping point is roughly 5vRMS. But, again, I had to generate a boosted tone to achieve that. The P99 puts out clean voltage all the way up.*
Sony RSX-GS9 clips at 49/50, with the voltage being just below 4.20 Vrms. Once you go above 4.20 Vrms the GS9 output is clipped (distorted).

*I've had some friends tell me their units clipped at 60/62 on the p99. I've had about 4-6 of these units in my hands and personally haven't found one that has clipped. But, just letting you know.





Here's some pictures of the output testing...



P99. 4.73 Vrms and no clipping indicator in the D-1.





Sony GS9. You can see at 4.20 Vrms I got a clipped signal indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erinh View Post
Moving on...


I've noticed in past testing the P99 seems to have a very quick 'jump' in voltage output at the end of it's turn. To explain, the P99 has a maximum volume of "62". Between 59 and 62 the voltage jumps quite a bit (something like 1 full volt; I'd have to double check my numbers which are saved on another computer in my garage). I was curious to see just what the volume number vs output voltage looked like. How close to logarithmic is it? And how does the Sony GS9 compare?

To test this I simply took the same 1khz tone referenced above and played it through each headunit. I turned the volume up and recorded the voltage out one increment at a time from Zero to Max. With Max, it's 62 clicks for the P99 and for the GS9 it's 50 clicks.
I then plotted the volume vs voltage both as a percentage. So, if the volume knob was at 62/62 that was 100%. The max voltage out would be 100% voltage. Make sense? Okay, cool! Here are the results:




^ What you can see is that the Sony volume knob is more incremental but still logarithmic. The P99 is much more steep at the end of the volume scale. The P99's output voltage increases nearly 66% in the last 10% of the volume turns (that's about the range from 56-62). Now, is this good? Bad? Heckifiknow. I think it's more subjective. But it doesn't seem good to me. Seems the Sony really looks like the typical/ideal audio log. The P99's taper bothers me to see such a steep swing in such a short range. I prefer the volume steps the Sony implements. Why? Because there's not much wiggle room... with the P99 it seems like they simply have too many steps in volume, and that's also based on my experience. Seems like they could have had less stops in the volume and maybe made the taper more gradual like what you see with the Sony's volume taper.






Here's the same thing as above but instead of representing the voltage as a percentage, I've provided it as the real voltage numbers. I made sure to color the Sony's clipping area in red, overlaid on the otherwise burgundy 'line'. (Note: the header of the graph is incorrect but I'm not sweating it.)




This should also really gives you pause if you're the person who says to set gains based on 75% headunit volume and you still use attenuated tones to set amp gains. You're leaving a lot of signal on the floor and then ramping it up even more by using a -10dB or so tone. That's why it's good practice to know where the source and/or DSP clip and set them to max unclipped output before setting amp gains. But that's a side topic.
Quote:
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and now we get to the part where I shouldn't be posting because it's total blasphemy and whatnot: the (sighted) aural test!


I hooked up both the P99 and GS9 on the bench, fed with a USB source signal (standard CD resolution; not hi-res since the p99 can't play that) and did a totally sighted audition. I did set the headunit voltages to the same output (about 0.844 Vrms) with a 1khz tone to match them to the amp input. Then I went about my merry way of auditioning with my eyes wide open. It was funny... as I was listening I would think to myself "oh, this one sounds better tonally" and then think the opposite. I kept going back and forth on tonality. Ultimately, they're a wash. Even when using that 'DDSE' option on the Sony... I didn't hear anything that jumped out at me. Of course, the tracks I was using were high quality tracks anyway (you guys saw my 'Remasters and Audiophoolery' thread, didn't you? ). The only area where I kept feeling like there was a difference, though, was in the soundstage. It just seemed like the Sony had a larger soundstage and better separation. I'm not talking about "OMG, the Sony is the champion of the world!". But it was something I kept thinking sounded better. Maybe just psychoacoustics. Though, I did talk to a friend last night who said he felt the same way about the Sony. So who knows.

After that, I did some more electrical tests. The below is the difference between the P99 and the Sony GS9's frequency response. What you see are extremely minor differences... about 0.5dB at the extreme ends and I'm thinking that may be more to do with the impedance than the actual units' FR. But, this backs up what I was hearing regarding tonality... nothing here stands out at all and it shouldn't. There shouldn't be any deviance from flat in an electronic's frequency response... unless you're talking about Tubes, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erinh View Post
Basically, all of that above to say this:

Sound Quality speaking... as just a pure deck and not considering the DSP or UI... both the P99 and GS9 are great units. The noteworthy thing here, as unsurprising as it *should* be is this: there is no clear winner. They're both great units.
But if you're thinking "oh, man, that Sony is the bee's knees" and you already have a P99 and are satisfied with it: don't waste your money seeking better sound. The P99 doesn't get beat up here. They're both just extremely good sources. Plus as Clay mentioned earlier, if you use the Sony you're gonna have to have a very nice DSP downstream.

Now, when you factor in the P99's built-in DSP, the P99 is the logical buy. But that stupid volume swing bothers me. And I do prefer the overall look of the Sony. Then there's user preference on interface (I like the p99's scroll wheel remote but think the Sony's app display is interesting). The Sony's high-res capability may be something you're interested in or find merit in... the p99 doesn't support that. So there are certainly reasons to choose one over the other as trivial or legitimate as they may be. I just advise not getting caught up in the notion that the Sony beats the snot out of the Pioneer in SQ (or vice versa) because - as far as my ears can tell - that's simply not the case. My $0.02. Of course, you know how opinions are... This is simply one of those kind of things you have to try out for yourself to know for sure.

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Old 12-05-2016   #967
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

As for the high-res bit, I covered my thoughts on that here:
Remasters and Audiophoolery?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
So now it's a later time and I'm ready for a different post.

As I said above, it's often assumed that HDTracks.com has the best versions one can get of an album but this isn't always the case. For evidence, just look at the DRDB results for the RATM S/T album.

Original 1992:
Album details - Dynamic Range Database


2012 anniversary reissue:
Album details - Dynamic Range Database


HDTracks 24-bit:
Album details - Dynamic Range Database


2016 remaster (SACD/CD Hybrid):
Album details - Dynamic Range Database


You can clearly tell the HDTracks version is just the 20th anniversary release. It's actually 3dB LOWER than the original album. And 5dB lower than the new remaster. Those who spent $20 on that download wasted their money, IMHO. You paid for a 24-bit version of a really compressed remaster. You'd have been better off just keeping the original disc in it's "inferior" 16-bit state.




However, on the other hand, I purchased a Matchbox Twenty's North album from HDTracks because it's about 4dB more dynamic than the CD. Here's the proof:
Album list - Dynamic Range Database

As you can see, the HDTracks version is about 4dB more dynamic than the original CD pressing.


Those are just two examples, then. As you can imagine, HDTracks is hit or miss as far as getting the best quality version of an album.

I'm telling you guys, when it comes to that site it really behooves you to do some research. Even just a quick search on the DRDB site can save you money. I found that out the hard way.

You expect something when you buy from them. But that's not always what you get. It's not necessarily their fault, per se. It's just... Maybe a bit disingenuous. But now you've been warned...



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Old 12-05-2016   #968
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
As for the high-res bit, I covered my thoughts on that here:

Remasters and Audiophoolery?


Must say when I tested the 2 units the difference was pretty noticeable - I found the Sony much more revealing and detailed. I found the P99 to very flat sounding in comparison - also found the background noise lower on the Sony - I noticed hiss on the p99

Must say the Sony was BNIB and the Brax MX2 used was also BNIB so maybe a bit of burning in - the Sony initially compared to the P99 was a bit harsh on some of the less well recorded tracks - P99 was more forgiving...

But fast forward a few weeks and lots of hours and the Sony has lost its harshness and is super smooth on everything I listened to...

I use a Utopia Kit 7 and MX2 and Sony combo for my listening sessions - best setup I have heard by far...

Also the Sony has no moving parts so less wear and tear and is a more reliable unit to purchase used - P99 has lots of moving parts so wear and tear more of a issue and more cautious when buying used...




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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Erin thanks for sharing the input between the 99RS and Sony.. Hearing these both in cars at finals, I can say except for maybe some hi-rez DSD, I guarantee I wouldn't be able to blind-test pick one over the other.

I think it reaches in the realm of how good your tune is at that point and other gazillion car-installation factors IMHO. I've heard top gear sound bad and medium gear sound stellar.

I think both of these units would be a fine pick for a 1-din "SQ dead head", and mainly depends how you want to use it.. Old school = 99. Tablet touch screen = Sony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
That's just it hi-res has been circling the audio industry for years - it took Sony to throw the gauntlet and the rest followed... the prospect of the Zapco HD DSP is intriguing - especially with the Sabre 32bit dacs - but the HU less Helix option makes sense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmusic View Post
I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.
The easier facilitation of streaming 1's and 0's directly to DSP's, which are the defacto required gear in higher-end SQ builds now, will change the face of the head unit market I believe. I'm not sure if that'll be good or not. I suspect the Alpines, Pioneers and Sony's will pretty much abandon the microscopic SQ market altogether as far as in-dash gear, in favor of features, toys, integration and margins, but my glass is half empty this morning.

If Alpine, Pio or Sony reads this.. Folks, capacitive touch, hi-rez, SQ based, pre-amp and SPDIF only, zero DSP stuffs, and no disk. Just make it play silly clean digi media, designed to feed an external DSP of any brand, and watch them fly off shelves. Just sayin'. Hell it doesn't even need a preamp at all does it? Radio and media player with USB on one end, SPDIF on the other and call it done. Of course Sony would reply "But DSD yo!".. I get that, but even us weirdo's are still beebopping over to iTunes and downloading (which is another rant for another cup of coffee).

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Old 12-05-2016   #970
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babs View Post
Erin thanks for sharing the input between the 99RS and Sony.. Hearing these both in cars at finals, I can say except for maybe some hi-rez DSD, I guarantee I wouldn't be able to blind-test pick one over the other.

I think it reaches in the realm of how good your tune is at that point and other gazillion car-installation factors IMHO. I've heard top gear sound bad and medium gear sound stellar.

I think both of these units would be a fine pick for a 1-din "SQ dead head", and mainly depends how you want to use it.. Old school = 99. Tablet touch screen = Sony.





The easier facilitation of streaming 1's and 0's directly to DSP's, which are the defacto required gear in higher-end SQ builds now, will change the face of the head unit market I believe. I'm not sure if that'll be good or not. I suspect the Alpines, Pioneers and Sony's will pretty much abandon the microscopic SQ market altogether as far as in-dash gear, in favor of features, toys, integration and margins, but my glass is half empty this morning.

If Alpine, Pio or Sony reads this.. Folks, capacitive touch, hi-rez, SQ based, pre-amp and SPDIF only, zero DSP stuffs, and no disk. Just make it play silly clean digi media, designed to feed an external DSP of any brand, and watch them fly off shelves. Just sayin'. Hell it doesn't even need a preamp at all does it? Radio and media player with USB on one end, SPDIF on the other and call it done. Of course Sony would reply "But DSD yo!".. I get that, but even us weirdo's are still beebopping over to iTunes and downloading (which is another rant for another cup of coffee).


One doesn't know how far if any the Hi-Res market will go... unless everyone gets on the bandwagon and release Hi-Res option to everything the Hi-Res market will be small...

Personally to record a artist with more sophisticated software at the original master recording and then split the recording to different market versions should not be a big deal.

If you want normal MP3 it's 1$ if you want hi-Res then $2 etc - you will most probably find the hi-res market will be big enough to sustain especially when it's the same recording costs initially (especially the bigger studios)

Even lossless is fine.... there is a business to tap into here if anyone wants to take the chance and invest...

One things for certain we won't see another P99 or F1 again.... especially when DSP and multimedia is gaining great strides in development...


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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post

One things for certain we won't see another P99 or F1 again.... especially when DSP and multimedia is gaining great strides in development...
It's kinda full circle isn't it now. Even the old Denon no-frills hifi units are kinda chic again now that you can tune on the back end. Literally zero processing.. Just killer transport to preamp and slick clean front face.

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
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It's kinda full circle isn't it now. Even the old Denon no-frills hifi units are kinda chic again now that you can tune on the back end. Literally zero processing.. Just killer transport to preamp and slick clean front face.
yea... as long as you only listen to CDs (or don't mind a crude, non-USB connection for your digital files)

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I hate to be that guy, but if you think you're hearing significant (or even any) difference in two high end DACs, you are mistaken. Modern DACS are brilliant, even the cheaper ones. Assuming the FR is matched (because I will admit that out of the box the FR between different head units will be different, not better or worse necessarily, just different), you will not hear a difference. The differences you are claiming are psychological, and/or related to different tune, not the DAC, I call bullshit on any claims that one head unit is superior than the other when they both have high end DACs.

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
I hate to be that guy, but if you think you're hearing significant (or even any) difference in two high end DACs, you are mistaken. Modern DACS are brilliant, even the cheaper ones. Assuming the FR is matched (because I will admit that out of the box the FR between different head units will be different, not better or worse necessarily, just different), you will not hear a difference. The differences you are claiming are psychological, and/or related to different tune, not the DAC, I call bullshit on any claims that one head unit is superior than the other when they both have high end DACs.


Sorry I don't agree...

And I really hate it when people assume what I did and didn't hear....


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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
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Sorry I don't agree...

And I really hate it when people assume what I did and didn't hear....


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That's fair, obviously it's pretty much impossible to quantify what another person sees/hears/tastes/etc. but when were talking about differences that have been shown to be far below our threshold, I suspect there may be something else involved. I can't quantify what you hear, but you have to agree that the mind plays a role as well. Whether or not that's the case, we won't know, but I suspect it is.

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