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Old 09-19-2012   #76
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
i ordered mine from crutch- great service and free harness and mounting hardware. stage 4 stuff was pulled from most dealers for some reason.
I'm going to keep looking for a bit in hope I can find one for a better price. While this headunit is definitely god-tier I can't justify spending over $1000. I'm hoping to find one for like $900.
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Old 09-19-2012   #77
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

It's highly doubtful you'll find a new one for 900. Although I'd snatch one up in a heartbeat for that price, that's pretty much used territory. Lowest I can see on a new one would be $1050.
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Old 09-19-2012   #78
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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It's highly doubtful you'll find a new one for 900. Although I'd snatch one up in a heartbeat for that price, that's pretty much used territory. Lowest I can see on a new one would be $1050.
Any deal is better than that 1200 price tag. I saw on crutchfield they have one a little cheaper for like 60 bucks less. Though it's an opened packaged. Fudge that, I'm not saving only $60 to find out some weirdo diddled that product and sent it back.
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Old 09-20-2012   #79
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

just for kicks i ran some "lower cost" scenarios for my system and included the deh-80prs. I could probably live with the 16 band EQ but only 6-channels is a deal breaker.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 09-20-2012   #80
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Found one for $1000
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Old 09-20-2012   #81
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Found one for $1000
About the only way you are going to find one less than 1200-1000 is to look for one used on eBay, craigslist, or on the forumns. They do come up but you have to check frequently.
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Old 09-20-2012   #82
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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About the only way you are going to find one less than 1200-1000 is to look for one used on eBay, craigslist, or on the forumns. They do come up but you have to check frequently.
Was able to snatch one that apparently was never used but its box was damaged. The ad said mint and the seller had 99.9 positive feedback with over 300 customers. Mon or Tuesday it should arrive. Gotta sell my Pioneer avh 4400bh before it gets here.
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Old 09-20-2012   #83
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

It is a great deck, in some ways I prefer my old Eclipse CD7200mkii. The sound out of the Eclipse is less digital. I am not running active yet and my opinion may change when that happens.

If you were running passive crossovers and have no intention of switching to active I wouldn't recommend a p99rs. I know some of the others here may disagree with me, but right now I cannot see justifying dropping 1.2K on the deck (at least while running passive xovers).

If you are running passive what I found that I like is...
Auto tune on - (yes you need to sit in the Car during the test to get a 1/2 decient autotune)
Auto eq on
Sound retriever on low - (yes even for CD's, seems to add some warmth to the sound)
Digital attinuation on low
And adjustments to the eq based on my individual needs

It sounds very good, but the music lacks warmth in my opionion.

The really big wins on this deck for me are the FM tuner (low static and exceptional sound quailty) and its ability to make compressed files sound acceptable.

My current system:
I am using McIntosh amps MCC404M and an MCC302 and Focal PS165 speakers for the front stage and PS690's. Image dynamic 12'' subs.

Im switching to active soon to see how it preforms...
Upgrading to an MCC406M (6 channel amp)
HAT - L1 pros, L4SE, and L6SE speakers
Keeping the rest as is.

Closing thoughts: The user interface is a nightmere to get used to and many of the buttons should have been made larger. I do need to do an RTA session to fine tune the deck, for the pricetag I don't think people should HAVE to go to such a measure to get the most out of the deck. It comes with an Auto Tune, which should have been better. The microphone which came with the deck appears to be of poor quality and probably a big part of why the autotune isn't better. I see people bending over backwards to have an excellant sounding system when Pioneer could have made the task MUCH simpler by doing some better engineering and providing the customers with better equipment. It is an expensive deck and users should be able to expect more.

Last edited by WestCo; 09-20-2012 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 09-21-2012   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
It is a great deck, in some ways I prefer my old Eclipse CD7200mkii. The sound out of the Eclipse is less digital. I am not running active yet and my opinion may change when that happens.

If you were running passive crossovers and have no intention of switching to active I wouldn't recommend a p99rs. I know some of the others here may disagree with me, but right now I cannot see justifying dropping 1.2K on the deck (at least while running passive xovers).

If you are running passive what I found that I like is...
Auto tune on - (yes you need to sit in the Car during the test to get a 1/2 decient autotune)
Auto eq on
Sound retriever on low - (yes even for CD's, seems to add some warmth to the sound)
Digital attinuation on low
And adjustments to the eq based on my individual needs

It sounds very good, but the music lacks warmth in my opionion.

The really big wins on this deck for me are the FM tuner (low static and exceptional sound quailty) and its ability to make compressed files sound acceptable.

My current system:
I am using McIntosh amps MCC404M and an MCC302 and Focal PS165 speakers for the front stage and PS690's. Image dynamic 12'' subs.

Im switching to active soon to see how it preforms...
Upgrading to an MCC406M (6 channel amp)
HAT - L1 pros, L4SE, and L6SE speakers
Keeping the rest as is.

Closing thoughts: The user interface is a nightmere to get used to and many of the buttons should have been made larger. I do need to do an RTA session to fine tune the deck, for the pricetag I don't think people should HAVE to go to such a measure to get the most out of the deck. It comes with an Auto Tune, which should have been better. The microphone which came with the deck appears to be of poor quality and probably a big part of why the autotune isn't better. I see people bending over backwards to have an excellant sounding system when Pioneer could have made the task MUCH simpler by doing some better engineering and providing the customers with better equipment. It is an expensive deck and users should be able to expect more.
Wow..

The P99 got most stuff that anyone would need, don't know of other HUs with such a great processor in this price range which also have an USB/iPod input. It probably has the most features available of any highend HU, so why are the P99 not living up to expectations?

Do not understand what "cold" or "warm" sound means either. Distortion, noise, crosstalk are down in unquestionable inaudible levels and FR measures flat from 20-20000Hz. What could possibly sound different? You can add warmth or harshness or whatever with the built in DSP, it's about frequency response. I can understand that speakers have different tonalities/distortion which could be discribed as warm or cold, this isn't applicable to low distortion/flat FR equipment like this headunit.

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Old 09-21-2012   #85
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Wow..

The P99 got most stuff that anyone would need, don't know of other HUs with such a great processor in this price range which also have an USB/iPod input. It probably has the most features available of any highend HU, so why are the P99 not living up to expectations?

Do not understand what "cold" or "warm" sound means either. Distortion, noise, crosstalk are down in unquestionable inaudible levels and FR measures flat from 20-20000Hz. What could possibly sound different? You can add warmth or harshness or whatever with the built in DSP, it's about frequency response. I can understand that speakers have different tonalities/distortion which could be discribed as warm or cold, this isn't applicable to low distortion/flat FR equipment like this headunit.
My main issue is that the P99RS should be much easier to tune right out of the box. Right now I have easily spent 15+ hours trying to tune this deck my ear. Yes things generally get better every time I fiddle with its settings, yes the sound is very good from the deck, and yes it has many features. The time expendature required to make it sound as good as my old HU is aggrovating (at least for me). I have reached the point where I prefer the sound out of this deck on my system to any system prior, that being said, is has been a complete struggle and I still wish I could make the music sound warmer. It should have been equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration.

I know I may sound a bit nasty in my comments. Cold sounding music has more detail and is chrisper, but sounds less like reality. Warm sounding music is more analoge and sounds more musical and less artificial. I have tried to get the DSP to my liking by ear, but I have come to the conclusion that I am going to need some real time analysis equipment to properly tune this deck to different styles of music. Its just aggrovating knowing when your equipment can preform really well, but making it preform well takes hours upon hours and special equipment. It's disappointing in that reguard.
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Old 09-21-2012   #86
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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My main issue is that the P99RS should be much easier to tune right out of the box. Right now I have easily spent 15+ hours trying to tune this deck my ear. .
no issue with that statement- i have had mine since february and am still tuning- but ever so slightly.
you really need to be a good technician with this deck- but the end results are so worth it. an RTA does help- but it helped me more to learn which bands to adjust on the fly to get a certain sound.

learn to dial in the TA settings- go for small clicks on one side only, one set at a time.

also- turn off the auto EQ- it is extremely midrange biased-

level everything to zero then adjust the levels of your drivers to achieve the best posisble sound balance- e.g. if you are hearing too much midrange, lower the mid channels, not enough midbass- adjust the low channels, etc.
run like this for a week or so and i bet you come close to not needing any EQ. if you do, make only small adjustments.

i have found that too much EQ, even if they are cuts- can make for a harsh sound. the less EQ the better.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 09-21-2012   #87
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

no offence, but that sounds more like a user problem than the head unit.

if you wanted gear "equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration", why not buy an MS8?
this unit is geared towards the people that want to spend the time tuning and perfecting it themselves.
personally I found the interface and tuning capabilities in this unit was the first that finally provided / allowed me to easily achieve the exact sound I'm looking for.

DEX-P99RS
(2)PRS-A900 / PRS-D1200SPL / GM-D7400M
High: ML28, Mid: L3SE, Low: ML 165 / Sub: (2)IDMax12 v.3 / Shaker: Buttkicker Mini
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Old 09-21-2012   #88
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by jstoner22 View Post
no offence, but that sounds more like a user problem than the head unit.

if you wanted gear "equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration", why not buy an MS8?
this unit is geared towards the people that want to spend the time tuning and perfecting it themselves.
personally I found the interface and tuning capabilities in this unit was the first that finally provided / allowed me to easily achieve the exact sound I'm looking for.
Word.

It also takes just days to learn to do all the fineadjusting with the remotecontrol with your eyes closed. Almost
If it had a couple of memoryslots for xover/TA-settings, it would be absolutely perfect.
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Old 09-21-2012   #89
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstoner22 View Post
no offence, but that sounds more like a user problem than the head unit.

if you wanted gear "equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration", why not buy an MS8?
this unit is geared towards the people that want to spend the time tuning and perfecting it themselves.
personally I found the interface and tuning capabilities in this unit was the first that finally provided / allowed me to easily achieve the exact sound I'm looking for.
That is EXACTLY my point.
Why not get a good head unit for around $350-450 and get an MS8?
You would be money ahead and wouldn't have the headaches. I realise that probably even with an MS8 people would still want to make adjustments, but you would have a much better starting point. For me an MS8 would have been a better investment.

That being said I don't see why Pioneer did not spend more energy tring to give users a better baseline auto tune. To say its geared toward user adjustments is fine, but that doesn't let Pioneer off the hook.

I'll admit I am not an expert at tuning, but the automatic tuning features leaves a lot to be desired. The P99RS provides more avenues to achieve a better overall sound, but getting there is going to take a lot of time and effort, and for me more equipment to buy.

Are you running active currently? I think a big part of my struggles is that I have passive crossovers and the HU wasn't geared to an active network.

Last edited by WestCo; 09-21-2012 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 09-21-2012   #90
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
no issue with that statement- i have had mine since february and am still tuning- but ever so slightly.
you really need to be a good technician with this deck- but the end results are so worth it. an RTA does help- but it helped me more to learn which bands to adjust on the fly to get a certain sound.

learn to dial in the TA settings- go for small clicks on one side only, one set at a time.

also- turn off the auto EQ- it is extremely midrange biased-

level everything to zero then adjust the levels of your drivers to achieve the best posisble sound balance- e.g. if you are hearing too much midrange, lower the mid channels, not enough midbass- adjust the low channels, etc.
run like this for a week or so and i bet you come close to not needing any EQ. if you do, make only small adjustments.

i have found that too much EQ, even if they are cuts- can make for a harsh sound. the less EQ the better.
I'll give it a try and I appreciate the advice!
Right now I am running passive crossovers so I don't have many options on lowering midbass levels without the EQ.
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Old 09-21-2012   #91
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
My main issue is that the P99RS should be much easier to tune right out of the box. Right now I have easily spent 15+ hours trying to tune this deck my ear. Yes things generally get better every time I fiddle with its settings, yes the sound is very good from the deck, and yes it has many features. The time expendature required to make it sound as good as my old HU is aggrovating (at least for me). I have reached the point where I prefer the sound out of this deck on my system to any system prior, that being said, is has been a complete struggle and I still wish I could make the music sound warmer. It should have been equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration.

I know I may sound a bit nasty in my comments. Cold sounding music has more detail and is chrisper, but sounds less like reality. Warm sounding music is more analoge and sounds more musical and less artificial. I have tried to get the DSP to my liking by ear, but I have come to the conclusion that I am going to need some real time analysis equipment to properly tune this deck to different styles of music. Its just aggrovating knowing when your equipment can preform really well, but making it preform well takes hours upon hours and special equipment. It's disappointing in that reguard.
I agree about being tricky to use the first time I messed around with it. Auto EQ sucks too. You really need measurement equipment to get the most of the settings. Pioneer probably assumes that only advanced users buy these kind of units. A 31b EQ L-R is not easy to set by ear imo.

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Old 09-21-2012   #92
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I found that if upper midrange (2-4kHz) is bright I would use a gap, 1.6k@6 and 4k@12, between mid and tweeter (I have tweeter on pillar), to smooth out the upper midrange. But the thing is, auto TA doesn't seem to work properly when there's a gap. It keeps lowering the gain on my midranges. Not to mention Auto EQ doesn't sound right.

Another thing that I still unable to solve is, when I sit in the car, or place anything between mic and headrest, the driver's midrange would go all the way to 80+ inches while the rest seems correct.

DEX-P99RS (Hi/Mid)->PRS-A900->Dynaudio MD102/MW160GT
Sub->Alpine MRD-M300->Dynaudio MW190
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Old 09-21-2012   #93
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
no issue with that statement- i have had mine since february and am still tuning- but ever so slightly.
you really need to be a good technician with this deck- but the end results are so worth it. an RTA does help- but it helped me more to learn which bands to adjust on the fly to get a certain sound.

learn to dial in the TA settings- go for small clicks on one side only, one set at a time.

also- turn off the auto EQ- it is extremely midrange biased-

level everything to zero then adjust the levels of your drivers to achieve the best posisble sound balance- e.g. if you are hearing too much midrange, lower the mid channels, not enough midbass- adjust the low channels, etc.
run like this for a week or so and i bet you come close to not needing any EQ. if you do, make only small adjustments.

i have found that too much EQ, even if they are cuts- can make for a harsh sound. the less EQ the better.
AutoEQ enchanced midbass over the top for me. Did not like it.

EQ is required in all cars. If it sounds best with EQ off then you must have set it incorrectly. As I said, you need to measure the response to get a baseline to work on. Cutting EQ will NOT produce any harsh sound, quite the opposite in fact. The most important thing is to get rid of peaks and differences between left and right side. Never encountered a Car which didn't need massive amounts of EQ and I've installed between 20-30 cars.

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Old 09-21-2012   #94
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Well I am going to get a RTA program and mic and see what I can do. There is no point in getting irritated. It sounds good right now and will be better.

The important thing that prospective buyers need to realize is that they should plan on purchasing some RTA equipment if they want the most out of this deck. That is probably true for other high end decks as well, but I was not anticipating needing it. Maybe many of you have such devices, I currently do not... lol That is gonna change.

Really appreciate the discussion, more to come...
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Old 09-21-2012   #95
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

sorry to thread hijack but if anyyone wants to sell their p99 please PM me ..

Daily driver finished. Project car under construction
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Old 09-21-2012   #96
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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sorry to thread hijack but if anyyone wants to sell their p99 please PM me ..
I am not ready to give up the fight on this deck just yet.
I will let you know if/when I do. Lol
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Old 09-21-2012   #97
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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I am not ready to give up the fight on this deck just yet.
I will let you know if/when I do. Lol
Same here...

DEX-P99RS (Hi/Mid)->PRS-A900->Dynaudio MD102/MW160GT
Sub->Alpine MRD-M300->Dynaudio MW190
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Old 09-22-2012   #98
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I'm sure the tuning effort will pay off. If I ever decide to add another amp, I'd pay retail for this deck just to have the control over the active crossovers.
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Old 09-22-2012   #99
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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AutoEQ enchanced midbass over the top for me. Did not like it.

EQ is required in all cars. If it sounds best with EQ off then you must have set it incorrectly. As I said, you need to measure the response to get a baseline to work on. Cutting EQ will NOT produce any harsh sound, quite the opposite in fact. The most important thing is to get rid of peaks and differences between left and right side. Never encountered a Car which didn't need massive amounts of EQ and I've installed between 20-30 cars.
I agree with most of this but let me clarify about EQ for P99 users and the lessons I learned-
1) DO NOT try to EQ over the autotune's EQ settings. I did this at first using the RTA and I got nowhere but in sound trouble- the autotune put such a severe curve that trying to correct it required overly deep EQ up and down the spectrum and it never sounded right- this is partly where the harshness / digital like edginess comes into play. it sounded artificial and harsh despite having a nice looking RTA curve.

2) Turn off the auto EQ and set everything to zero. Now spend a week or two adjusting driver levels and crossovers. you should be able to get a very nice sound just by doing this.

3) Now it's time to EQ. In my Car the RTA showed nearly flat from 400 Hz to 20 Khz once I fine tuned the driver levels and crossovers. It sounded very nice but the lower mid-bass was boomy and too pronounced.
I made some cuts between 100 and 400 Hz,
easy on each end, e.g -1db @ 100 leading to -4db @ 250 then back up smoothly to -1 @ 400 Hz.

A few small cuts centered around 3K, e.g -1db @ 3.1K plus -1/2 db on either side of the 3.1K band.

That' it.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 09-22-2012   #100
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Well I am going to get a RTA program and mic and see what I can do. There is no point in getting irritated. It sounds good right now and will be better.

The important thing that prospective buyers need to realize is that they should plan on purchasing some RTA equipment if they want the most out of this deck. That is probably true for other high end decks as well, but I was not anticipating needing it. Maybe many of you have such devices, I currently do not... lol That is gonna change.

Really appreciate the discussion, more to come...
I would say try it without the RTA first. A nice RTA curve can sound badly, and still need refinement by ear. So practice by ear. Start by switching off the auto-EQ and EQ to flat, and spend time finding the best crossover points and slopes, then level your drivers to come close to a smooth sound. You'll probably get pretty close with this and be left with a boomy upper midbass- then try some cuts centered around 250 or 300 Hz.

think in terms of slight adjustments- to levels, eq etc. i have gotten so used to my sound that i can tell when the rear speakers channels have been raised or lowered by 1-db.

i think you can do it it just takes time- also (unfortunately) you need to do it while the Car is running and moving- when it's parked you usually get too much bass because there is no noise cancellation. just be careful and keep your eyes on the road too.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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