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Old 12-26-2012   #201
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by 82801BA View Post
Still have problems...

Anyone done auto EQ, single sub, resulting TA on left/right subwoofer are off by 7 inches?
"Off" in what way?

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Old 12-26-2012   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
thanks for the info. i am definitely going to try it. do you have any links for impulse measuring to determine T/A? I tried searching but could not find much. My truerta does have impulse.
There is one old thread about it here about measuring T/A. Can look it up later

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Old 12-26-2012   #203
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by 82801BA View Post
Still have problems...

Anyone done auto EQ, single sub, resulting TA on left/right subwoofer are off by 7 inches?
I had this unit for 4 months. It is nice, but you can do FAR better with an external processor and any head unit with optical out. The sound from my system is far superior than it ever was with the pioneer.
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Old 12-27-2012   #204
 
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Which headunit you used that have optical output? And What processor that you are using?

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Old 12-27-2012   #205
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Raysclim View Post
Which headunit you used that have optical output? And What processor that you are using?

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And Arc audio PS8

Honestly the sound is similar via RCA and optical output with that combo, but there is less noise via optical out. I had a much better overall sound when I switched. I need the ps8 controller to stick with optical.
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Old 12-27-2012   #206
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

The rf 6.sixty; the mosconi 6to8, the Helix, even the alpine h800, would all be good choices.
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
I had this unit for 4 months. It is nice, but you can do FAR better with an external processor and any head unit with optical out. The sound from my system is far superior than it ever was with the pioneer.
The P99 just has a steep learning curve, and the Q of each of its 31 EQ bands is a bit wide. Also underlapping cut-off points in the crossover usually produces smooth response after RTA tuning.

To each his (or her) own. If you prefer an external DSP, whatever floats your boat.

For me, I've seen (and personally experienced) hardcore SQ competitions where cars with the P99 score higher than cars with external processors (Audison BitOne and Alpine PXA-H800).

2007 Honda Civic / Pioneer DEX-P99RS / Seas Excel Millenium T25CF002 Tweeters / Seas Excel W12CY001 Midrange / Dominations CFS4 midbass / Sundown Z15 sub / Sands M475 front-stage amps / Sands M1000 subwoofer amp / Tchernov Original Balanced RCA cables / Team DSD
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Old 12-27-2012   #208
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
The P99 just has a steep learning curve, and the Q of each of its 31 EQ bands is a bit wide. Also underlapping cut-off points in the crossover usually produces smooth response after RTA tuning.

To each his (or her) own. If you prefer an external DSP, whatever floats your boat.

For me, I've seen (and personally experienced) hardcore SQ competitions where cars with the P99 score higher than cars with external processors (Audison BitOne and Alpine PXA-H800).
If they had better speakers/amps and install, absolutely. I sold the unit to a gentleman in NY. Even he agreed that the pioneer sounded no better than his Kenwood unit when he ran them both passive. And yes I informed him that the deck should be ran active to get the best sound from it.

The raw signal from the p99 should be better for the price. But that's 100% my opinion. In the end it was a disappointment and I ended up selling it. I understand that there are a lot of people out there who disagree. I will not be buying pioneer again in the near future.
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Old 12-27-2012   #209
 
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Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
If they had better speakers/amps and install, absolutely. I sold the unit to a gentleman in NY. Even he agreed that the pioneer sounded no better than his Kenwood unit when he ran them both passive. And yes I informed him that the deck should be ran active to get the best sound from it.

The raw signal from the p99 should be better for the price. But that's 100% my opinion. In the end it was a disappointment and I ended up selling it. I understand that there are a lot of people out there who disagree. I will not be buying pioneer again in the near future.
I envy greatly a fellow SQ competitor with the Alpine D800/H800/C800 combo. Best of all worlds. Can play DVDs and sound really good at the same time. The D800 deck is hooked up to his H800 processor via an optical connection. This way, the RCA cables from the H800 to the amp are really short. Less than 3 feet for the longest connector. Bloody good sounding system!

In my experience, I too was initially disappointed at the P99. My previous head unit was the Clarion HXD2 (known in the USA as the DRZ-9255). I ran it 4-way full-active to Focal Power FP-series amplifiers to a Utopia Be No.7 "active" set. Also had the 27WX subwoofer. Then I upgraded the head unit's Power supply capacitors to Elna Silmic II and it sounded even better. Capacitors in the deck itself were already Elna Silmic so I didn't bother upgrading those. As I recall, that deck sounded very good. Warm, detailed, insightful and really easy to focus on little musical cues that other head units miss out on. My next update would have been an Audison BitOne with the custom optical cable (Clarion opticals aren't Toslink), but a typhoon struck and the Car went underwater in a big flood.

5 months later, the Car was back to running condition (care of a boatload of expenses at the dealership) and I had most of the audio gear refurbished and sold at a really low price. So I was driving 3-4 months without a radio.

Then I discovered through a friend, the P99.

For such a big space, the display was really too small. I mean compared to the big display of the P90 deck. Or even the old-school Alpine CDA-7998 which I used to own. Nice copper chassis, though. The RCA terminals were a big joke. Compared to the beefy and high-quality RCA terminals of the DRZ-9255, those of the P99 were better suited (IMHO) to a budget deck. The remote was a PITA to learn. Twists and turns and ups and downs and presses here and there. It was like learning to text all over again. Haha..

But with the P99, I learned how to properly RTA a car. I learned how to set slopes, cut-off frequencies and select the best phase. Not just by ear, but also by reading Vance Dickason's amazing LDC. My official audio bible, as it is. Then by using TrueRTA in 1/24th-octave mode, I learned how each of the 31 EQ bands would affect the sound. In 1/24th-octave mode, it was easy to see how to get a "flat" baseline upon which to tune "by ear."

Then I joined a couple of hardcore SQ contests and didn't do too badly. So did my buddies. During that time, we wanted to prove a point - that a well-tuned "budget" system using Asian speakers and amplifiers could compete favorably against big European brands. With luck, we managed to succeed a few times. There were 6 or 7 of us, all using the P99 head unit.

There are times when other friends ask me to tune their system. These are people who don't compete in SQ competitions, but own really good gear. One of my friends has the Zapco DC-REFERENCE amplifiers. Two of them daisy-chained. The Zapco software running in his laptop. I used the same tuning method I learned with the P99 and they seemed to work. My friend likes how his car sounds. I thought this might be a good thing to try - an external DSP.

But I'm lazy to bring out my computer and there are times I like to tinker with the tune while driving - to suit different musical tastes. So (for me), the P99 is just right.

The next best thing would be the Alpine PXA-H800 with the C800 controller. Yes you can use a laptop to tune, but with the controller, you can do everything the software can do. The BitOne needs a laptop, so I think the Alpine would likely be my next DSP.

Just curious, why were you disappointed with your P99?

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Old 12-27-2012   #210
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IME the D/H/C800 combo doesn't sound any better or worse than any other competently designed processor I've used. My 6to8, with input from my OEM VW HU sounds just as good (until the volume dependent EQ screws it up) and doesn't block my vents like the D800 did.

The post about the Pioneer sounding the same as the Kenwood just proves the point that the source units is really the last thing to worry about. HUs have progressed to the point where any HU will provide a clean, flat signal. We use the P99RS because of the processing, not because the signal is any cleaner than anything else. Not liking it because the RCAs are not up to some imagined level of quality is ludicrous. They do the job and do it well. Putting Enkei wheels on your Fiesta won't make it a race Car any more than "high end" RCA connectors will make your HU sound any better.

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Old 12-27-2012   #211
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
There is one old thread about it here about measuring T/A. Can look it up later

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.
This one perhaps?
Tuning your car using a pc based measurement setup

That's the one I remembered from long ago using impulse to set T/A.

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Last edited by Wesayso; 12-27-2012 at 05:32 AM..
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Old 12-27-2012   #212
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesayso View Post
This one perhaps?
Tuning your car using a pc based measurement setup

That's the one I remembered from long ago using impulse to set T/A.
Yeah that's the one. You did the work for me, thanks

They use WinMLS which ain't free, but it's basically the same idea with any impulse based program.

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Old 12-27-2012   #213
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
The post about the Pioneer sounding the same as the Kenwood just proves the point that the source units is really the last thing to worry about. HUs have progressed to the point where any HU will provide a clean, flat signal. We use the P99RS because of the processing, not because the signal is any cleaner than anything else. Not liking it because the RCAs are not up to some imagined level of quality is ludicrous. They do the job and do it well. Putting Enkei wheels on your Fiesta won't make it a race Car any more than "high end" RCA connectors will make your HU sound any better.
I agree. P99RS got nice features and a nice DSP

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Old 12-27-2012   #214
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Not liking it because the RCAs are not up to some imagined level of quality is ludicrous. They do the job and do it well. Putting Enkei wheels on your Fiesta won't make it a race Car any more than "high end" RCA connectors will make your HU sound any better.
Not to bash the P99 (which I use and love), but you gotta admit the RCA outputs of the P99 have room for improvement. Here's why:

I used to own this head unit:


Check out its RCA connectors:


Easy to see QUALITY. The RCA harness is non-detachable (captive). They use metal-barreled machined female RCA connectors. Easy for "locking" RCA cables such as the Stinger HPM3 and Tchernov Original Balanced to hook up to. And its got transparent plastic shields so that plugged-in RCA cables don't come into contact with each other.

Then I owned the Clarion HXD2 (DRZ-9255).







Its got the same machined metal-barreled female RCA connectors. The Clarion website even goes so far as to say that it is made from silver-Coated SK:6N (99.9999% Oxygen-Free) Copper. This thing OOZES quality.

Compare this to the detachable RCA connectors of the P99:



Not friendly (in my experience) to locking RCA cables. When I was removing it, I even managed to pull out the gold-plated ground from the plastic body when I forgot to twist-unlock a male RCA connector. Thank God the sound quality did not suffer when I put it back.

My friends who also use the P99 have reported noise and alternator whine issues that were solved (cured) when the RCA harness was unplugged then plugged back in with slightly more force.

So again, please don't get me wrong. I am not bashing the P99. I have one. I even have the Service Manual (I actually have service manuals for the CDA7998R and DRZ-9255 as well). I love how the P99 sounds when tuned properly. In fact, my friends and I have won many hardcore SQ competitions with it.

All I am saying is that such an expensive head unit with so much attention paid to its INTERNALS probably deserves a better RCA output connector.

Peace!

2007 Honda Civic / Pioneer DEX-P99RS / Seas Excel Millenium T25CF002 Tweeters / Seas Excel W12CY001 Midrange / Dominations CFS4 midbass / Sundown Z15 sub / Sands M475 front-stage amps / Sands M1000 subwoofer amp / Tchernov Original Balanced RCA cables / Team DSD
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Old 12-27-2012   #215
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesayso View Post
This one perhaps?
Tuning your car using a pc based measurement setup

That's the one I remembered from long ago using impulse to set T/A.
thanks again to my European brothers in sound!

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 12-27-2012   #216
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
Not to bash the P99 (which I use and love), but you gotta admit the RCA outputs of the P99 have room for improvement.
Last time I remove my P99RS with monster cable, one of the RCA shield was completely torn off. Had to buy a new harness from pacparts to make the whole thing work again.

I came from a CDA-7990 and the RCA looked exactly like the 7998 if not better. Never had any problem with that. P99RS is just a joke...Switch to this unit only because of versatility (7990 simply can't do anything beside CD/AM/FM).

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Old 12-27-2012   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
Not to bash the P99 (which I use and love), but you gotta admit the RCA outputs of the P99 have room for improvement. Here's why:

I used to own this head unit:


Check out its RCA connectors:


Easy to see QUALITY. The RCA harness is non-detachable (captive). They use metal-barreled machined female RCA connectors. Easy for "locking" RCA cables such as the Stinger HPM3 and Tchernov Original Balanced to hook up to. And its got transparent plastic shields so that plugged-in RCA cables don't come into contact with each other.

Then I owned the Clarion HXD2 (DRZ-9255).







Its got the same machined metal-barreled female RCA connectors. The Clarion website even goes so far as to say that it is made from silver-Coated SK:6N (99.9999% Oxygen-Free) Copper. This thing OOZES quality.

Compare this to the detachable RCA connectors of the P99:



Not friendly (in my experience) to locking RCA cables. When I was removing it, I even managed to pull out the gold-plated ground from the plastic body when I forgot to twist-unlock a male RCA connector. Thank God the sound quality did not suffer when I put it back.

My friends who also use the P99 have reported noise and alternator whine issues that were solved (cured) when the RCA harness was unplugged then plugged back in with slightly more force.

So again, please don't get me wrong. I am not bashing the P99. I have one. I even have the Service Manual (I actually have service manuals for the CDA7998R and DRZ-9255 as well). I love how the P99 sounds when tuned properly. In fact, my friends and I have won many hardcore SQ competitions with it.

All I am saying is that such an expensive head unit with so much attention paid to its INTERNALS probably deserves a better RCA output connector.

Peace!
Again, unnecessary. If the cable you used pulled the shield out then your cables ends are too tight. There is ZERO need for them to be that tight. Monster does that shit and it pisses me off. The plastic covers over the ends are nice but again, not necessary. The RCAs being on a removable plug does add another connection point but it doesn't hurt anything. My D800 had removable RCAs and I LOVED that. I wasn't using them anyway and it really helped with the clutter behind the dash.

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Old 12-27-2012   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 82801BA View Post
Last time I remove my P99RS with monster cable, one of the RCA shield was completely torn off. Had to buy a new harness from pacparts to make the whole thing work again.

I came from a CDA-7990 and the RCA looked exactly like the 7998 if not better. Never had any problem with that. P99RS is just a joke...Switch to this unit only because of versatility (7990 simply can't do anything beside CD/AM/FM).
Then get new cables that aren't unnecessarily tight. No RCA cables needs ends that tight.

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Old 12-27-2012   #219
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I actually REALLY like the removable RCA harness. It makes installing the deck much easier. I don't have to hold the deck/dash piece in one hand while connecting RCAs with the other hand. With the harness I just connect all the RCAs up, run the harness in to the dash area and then plug it in. Done.

I wish all audio companies used this kind of modular design. Like Alpine/JL/etc do for their amplifiers.

Unnecessarily large barrel connectors provide no tangible benefit. Much less audible. They may look pretty but you're paying for pretty... in some regards I'm all for this. But not for an RCA jack that's buried in the dash...


And, given this is DIY site, to the folks complaining about the connectors, why not do like Jorge did and make your own? Cut the ends off the harness, solder up your own connectors and rock it. Problem solved. You can use whatever $5 boutique barrel jack you want and gain all the SQ you feel is lost with a standard RCA jack.

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Old 12-27-2012   #220
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
I envy greatly a fellow SQ competitor with the Alpine D800/H800/C800 combo. Best of all worlds. Can play DVDs and sound really good at the same time. The D800 deck is hooked up to his H800 processor via an optical connection. This way, the RCA cables from the H800 to the amp are really short. Less than 3 feet for the longest connector. Bloody good sounding system!

In my experience, I too was initially disappointed at the P99. My previous head unit was the Clarion HXD2 (known in the USA as the DRZ-9255). I ran it 4-way full-active to Focal Power FP-series amplifiers to a Utopia Be No.7 "active" set. Also had the 27WX subwoofer. Then I upgraded the head unit's Power supply capacitors to Elna Silmic II and it sounded even better. Capacitors in the deck itself were already Elna Silmic so I didn't bother upgrading those. As I recall, that deck sounded very good. Warm, detailed, insightful and really easy to focus on little musical cues that other head units miss out on. My next update would have been an Audison BitOne with the custom optical cable (Clarion opticals aren't Toslink), but a typhoon struck and the Car went underwater in a big flood.

5 months later, the Car was back to running condition (care of a boatload of expenses at the dealership) and I had most of the audio gear refurbished and sold at a really low price. So I was driving 3-4 months without a radio.

Then I discovered through a friend, the P99.

For such a big space, the display was really too small. I mean compared to the big display of the P90 deck. Or even the old-school Alpine CDA-7998 which I used to own. Nice copper chassis, though. The RCA terminals were a big joke. Compared to the beefy and high-quality RCA terminals of the DRZ-9255, those of the P99 were better suited (IMHO) to a budget deck. The remote was a PITA to learn. Twists and turns and ups and downs and presses here and there. It was like learning to text all over again. Haha..

But with the P99, I learned how to properly RTA a car. I learned how to set slopes, cut-off frequencies and select the best phase. Not just by ear, but also by reading Vance Dickason's amazing LDC. My official audio bible, as it is. Then by using TrueRTA in 1/24th-octave mode, I learned how each of the 31 EQ bands would affect the sound. In 1/24th-octave mode, it was easy to see how to get a "flat" baseline upon which to tune "by ear."

Then I joined a couple of hardcore SQ contests and didn't do too badly. So did my buddies. During that time, we wanted to prove a point - that a well-tuned "budget" system using Asian speakers and amplifiers could compete favorably against big European brands. With luck, we managed to succeed a few times. There were 6 or 7 of us, all using the P99 head unit.

There are times when other friends ask me to tune their system. These are people who don't compete in SQ competitions, but own really good gear. One of my friends has the Zapco DC-REFERENCE amplifiers. Two of them daisy-chained. The Zapco software running in his laptop. I used the same tuning method I learned with the P99 and they seemed to work. My friend likes how his car sounds. I thought this might be a good thing to try - an external DSP.

But I'm lazy to bring out my computer and there are times I like to tinker with the tune while driving - to suit different musical tastes. So (for me), the P99 is just right.

The next best thing would be the Alpine PXA-H800 with the C800 controller. Yes you can use a laptop to tune, but with the controller, you can do everything the software can do. The BitOne needs a laptop, so I think the Alpine would likely be my next DSP.

Just curious, why were you disappointed with your P99?
I reciently purchased a drz-9255 and I have high hopes for it.

I was disappointed with how it (p99) handeled the mids and highs, it's probably more from my personal preference. I felt that the sound should have been more "fully" and lacked warmth, that the processor gives me.

I loved the sound from my eclipse cd7200 and I have one of those that I am going to try with the processor. Maybe the rca connection was a part of my issue. I thought (mistakenly) that KNU made good RCA's, but they have been a real disappointment.

The RCA outputs on the pioneer should be of higher grade, we agree 100% there. What brand of RCA cables do you use?

Last edited by WestCo; 12-27-2012 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012   #221
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The ends Pioneer and Clarion use and the Knu cables you are using, unless damaged, are not the problems.

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Old 12-27-2012   #222
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
The ends Pioneer and Clarion use and the Knu cables you are using, unless damaged, are not the problems.
I am switching out to vampire wires to try and reduce some noise that I have.
Any suggestions?
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Old 12-27-2012   #223
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Also I havent tried the Clarion yet.
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Old 12-27-2012   #224
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

sounds like you should cryo cool your wires. superconductor > standard rca cabling. I can get you access to LN2 or LHe if needed.

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Old 12-27-2012   #225
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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sounds like you should cryo cool your wires. superconductor > standard rca cabling. I can get you access to LN2 or LHe if needed.
Can you explain this a bit more? lol
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