I just installed a bunch of Don's product and I just want to relate the experience. First, I'll cut to the chase. It works! Now some details....
I was not happy with the lack of bass/mid-bass coming from my front door JL Audio C5 coax's. I was also sick to death of my JL sub causing the whole car to sound like it was falling apart. And I have good stuff. It should sound good! But as I started doing more research, I found that just as in home audio, the best components and speakers in the world can't overcome a bad environment. And so what to do? After a lot of web searching, Don from SDS kept on coming up as the most respected authority. Now I know why. When you think about what he recommends and why, it actually makes perfect sense. Sheet metal rattles. So stop it from rattling (CLD tiles). When two piece of metal touch, they vibrate, resonate, and ring so decouple them from one another (MLV & CCF & butyl rope). And don't block sound with lined tin foil, use the right product (MLV w/CCF). And the other benefit of the MLV/CCF layer is that it isolates the front and rear sound waves of any speakers in the door and you will notice a HUGE increase in mid-bass and your soundstage will jump off the dash and into the cabin. Treating the door like the speaker enclosure that it is will make a bigger difference than better speakers or a better amp. I also added a layer of CCF to my rear deck and used some leftover cldtiles to my trunk. Now I can play tracks with crushing bass and my car barely makes a peep. It is a remarkable transformation. And the difference in the sound that can get in the car is also dramatically different, and for the better. I should mention that during the initial install, I had copious amount of dynamat xtreme installed, but it was ONLY after the MLV/CCF went in the door that I noticed a quieter cabin. Now I'm thinking I have to do the floors. A Lexus-like ride awaits.
Point being, if anyone is looking for how to improve their existing system, then treat your doors like the speaker enclosure they are and de-rattle the vehicle. Don is a fabulous resource. This is NOT a paid endorsement. I just feel like there are a lot of car stereos that could be improved by leaps and bounds without trashing perfectly good components that are just fighting a losing battle in a bad environment.
Couldn't agree more. What I did with my doors made everything better by leaps and bounds. I was trying to buy some product from Don that I didn't need and he stopped me and gave me another option that worked perfectly. Don is the man.
Couldn't agree more. What I did with my doors made everything better by leaps and bounds. I was trying to buy some product from Don that I didn't need and he stopped me and gave me another option that worked perfectly. Don is the man.
I just placed my order this morning after a long email conversation with him last night. I thought I had my order all figured out. I was close, but he changed up what needed and where and it actually came out to the same price as I had figured up, plus or minus a few bucks.
Even better he fully explained why he would put which material where and how to apply it. It was a fairly detailed email. I can't wait to get it next week and start applying it.
He is a great resource and cares a lot about this stuff, after using his product the only thing i dislike is that cutting up cld and placing it on a door in strategic flat planes is a pain. Ive never used dynamat but i imagine laying one huge mat and just rolling it is a much easier task. For those buying his stuff thats probably the only thing i would do differently, try to get your hands on some lighter gauge cheaper cld and just sheet the whole door.
My step by step setup guide to room EQ wizard with $150 worth of equipment:
He is a great resource and cares a lot about this stuff, after using his product the only thing i dislike is that cutting up cld and placing it on a door in strategic flat planes is a pain. Ive never used dynamat but i imagine laying one huge mat and just rolling it is a much easier task. For those buying his stuff thats probably the only thing i would do differently, try to get your hands on some lighter gauge cheaper cld and just sheet the whole door.
You've missed the point if you think a full layer of lighter gauge CLD damper is the better solution. Cut the CLD tiles with tin snips, put it on with your hands or a roller, done. It takes longer but you only have to do it once.
You've missed the point if you think a full layer of lighter gauge cld damper is the better solution. Cut the cldtiles with tin snips, put it on with your hands or a roller, done. It takes longer but you only have to do it once.
^^This!
I am a convert from the old "slather CLD all over the damn car" methodology, and it is a huge difference. My car is quieter, lighter, and it was far cheaper only putting CLD on 25% of the car, and using CCF and MLV to finish it off. A little rope here and there, and its done. Easy, and no peel and stick every time you need to make a repair to something in the car.
I just placed my order this morning after a long email conversation with him last night. I thought I had my order all figured out. I was close, but he changed up what needed and where and it actually came out to the same price as I had figured up, plus or minus a few bucks.
Even better he fully explained why he would put which material where and how to apply it. It was a fairly detailed email. I can't wait to get it next week and start applying it.
Yes, his emails to me too were extremely detailed and inspired great confidence. I still can't get over that I can play my car system like an angry teenager trying to wake up the world and my car JUST. DOESN'T RATTLE!
I just placed my order this morning after a long email conversation with him last night. I thought I had my order all figured out. I was close, but he changed up what needed and where and it actually came out to the same price as I had figured up, plus or minus a few bucks.
Even better he fully explained why he would put which material where and how to apply it. It was a fairly detailed email. I can't wait to get it next week and start applying it.
And I should say congratulations! Your system is about to get a whole lot better. The return of mid-bass. The dramatic improvement in soundstage not being trapped at the dash, and a perceived increase in resolution since you will be getting soooo much more direct sound from the speaker and less of the speaker interacting with a door made of a billion different pieces of rattling and ringing sheet metal!
Couldn't agree more. What I did with my doors made everything better by leaps and bounds. I was trying to buy some product from Don that I didn't need and he stopped me and gave me another option that worked perfectly. Don is the man.
Yes, I forgot to mention that I also got the right advice from Don, not just me asking for stuff and him supplying it. He educated me, gave me reasons, told me what he'd suggest with a couple options, and it all made perfect sense and the result of someone who understands that the best job of upselling is done by being honest and giving people the right information. When people have the right information, they will usually upsell themselves! I selected the more expensive of the two options he gave me
I'll post some pics lol. I used SDS too. Love it and Don was very helpful and the shipping was crazy fast. I've got it on the rear deck (upper and lower), trunk lid and various other places.
CLD tiles (easy to cut with scissors and place where you need)
CCF/MLV Layer
CLD tiles on Door Card (HUGE help for panel vibrations)
2004 SSM Acura TL w/ Nav. RF BLD/ MS-8 / IDmax-Audison SR1dk / ID CXS62v2- ID Q450.4 / CLD,MLV,CCF
You've missed the point if you think a full layer of lighter gauge cld damper is the better solution. Cut the cldtiles with tin snips, put it on with your hands or a roller, done. It takes longer but you only have to do it once.
You didnt explain why i missed the point actually
all you did was agree with me that it takes longer to cut it up and place it strategically.
The whole point of cutting up and placing the CLD is that you need to dampen the middle 10-15% of large planes of metal. The problem with this is figuring it out takes forever. Does it use much less CLD? Yes.
But if you can find cheaper CLD and just roll it all on the door at once you just saved yourself 20-30 minutes per door at least (cutting it all up and making sure you properly distribute the 4-5 CLD tiles per door, inner and outer, takes a while)
If youre doing four doors, and the interior of the car, you save yourself a lot of time by just buying large sheets and not having to worry about NOT overdoing it lest you have your car torn apart and you run out of CLD.
The MLV and CCF is something that is unavoidable, the amount of time sunk into cutting up a bunch of CLD tiles is a lot. Especially if youve only got one car and you dont have the luxury of just leaving it torn apart all the time.
My step by step setup guide to room EQ wizard with $150 worth of equipment:
I'll post some pics lol. I used SDS too. Love it and Don was very helpful and the shipping was crazy fast. I've got it on the rear deck (upper and lower), trunk lid and various other places.
CLD tiles (easy to cut with scissors and place where you need)
CCF/MLV Layer
Nice efficient job, but please tell me you covered/sealed up those gapping holes in the inner door skin with something rigid.
I need to remake this video because stupid Picasa decided to cut my text overlays down to about 0.2 seconds in duration, but this might be helpful anyway:
if the mlv is pinched between the door card the door then leakage would be minimal.
in my car with 8" midbass i noticed some gain in sealing the holes with roof flashing vs only using mlv.
in my bro's car with dayton rs 180's i dont feel like there would be much to gain by sealing the holes with mlv already installed. some day perhaps i will seal them but i dont expect to see much a difference.
^another reason to just use dynamat or something similar to basically seal the door entirely
if you want to seal the doors why use an expensive product like dynamat?
much cheaper to seal with some roof flashing or maybe fiberglass. if the holes are large the dynamat will move back and forth, effectively radiating sound into the car.
all you did was agree with me that it takes longer to cut it up and place it strategically.
The whole point of cutting up and placing the cld is that you need to dampen the middle 10-15% of large planes of metal. The problem with this is figuring it out takes forever. Does it use much less CLD? Yes.
But if you can find cheaper cld and just roll it all on the door at once you just saved yourself 20-30 minutes per door at least (cutting it all up and making sure you properly distribute the 4-5 CLD tiles per door, inner and outer, takes a while)
If youre doing four doors, and the interior of the car, you save yourself a lot of time by just buying large sheets and not having to worry about NOT overdoing it lest you have your car torn apart and you run out of CLD.
The MLV and CCF is something that is unavoidable, the amount of time sunk into cutting up a bunch of CLD tiles is a lot. Especially if youve only got one car and you dont have the luxury of just leaving it torn apart all the time.
it doesn't take alot of brain power to figure out how to cover 25% of a door.
don's instruction for applying the cdl tiles to my brothers sentra are this simple.
Quote from the email. 5 tiles on the outer skin, and 1 tile on the inner skin (cut up and applied to flat spots)
"Start by pressing Extruded Butyl Rope (EBR) between the outer skin and
> the side impact protection beams. Leave gaps every few inches to allow
> water to drain. Cut some strips from a heavy plastic bag and press them
> into the top surface of the EBR to protect it from dirt.
> * All doors are configured differently. Some have more than one side
> impact beams. Some have the gap filled already, others have rubber or
> foam bumpers every few inches. The best way to know whether or not
> you’ll be able to do this treatment is to look inside your own doors.
>
> Apply half the CLD Tiles allocated to the outer skin above and half
> below the side impact protection beam, assuming the impact beam divides
> the door evenly. Cut the remaining CLD Tiles into smaller pieces and
> apply them to the inner door skin."
so if there is 1 impact beam in the car door you would put 2.5 tiles above and 2.5 tiles below the beam. and stuff some ebr behind the beam.
if anything, this sounds like a easy and quick way to deaden a door. and in practice its incredibly quick compared to 100% coverage (especially if the access to the outer door skin is through very smaller holes!)
it doesn't take alot of brain power to figure out how to cover 25% of a door.
don's instruction for applying the cdl tiles to my brothers sentra are this simple.
Quote from the email. 5 tiles on the outer skin, and 1 tile on the inner skin (cut up and applied to flat spots)
"Start by pressing Extruded Butyl Rope (EBR) between the outer skin and
> the side impact protection beams. Leave gaps every few inches to allow
> water to drain. Cut some strips from a heavy plastic bag and press them
> into the top surface of the EBR to protect it from dirt.
> * All doors are configured differently. Some have more than one side
> impact beams. Some have the gap filled already, others have rubber or
> foam bumpers every few inches. The best way to know whether or not
> you’ll be able to do this treatment is to look inside your own doors.
>
> Apply half the cld Tiles allocated to the outer skin above and half
> below the side impact protection beam, assuming the impact beam divides
> the door evenly. Cut the remaining cld Tiles into smaller pieces and
> apply them to the inner door skin."
so if there is 1 impact beam in the car door you would put 2.5 tiles above and 2.5 tiles below the beam. and stuff some ebr behind the beam.
if anything, this sounds like a easy and quick way to deaden a door. and in practice its incredibly quick compared to 100% coverage (especially if the access to the outer door skin is through very smaller holes!)
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with this. Slapping a few hand sized tiles in the ~middle of a larger open space doesn't take that much effort. Only if you take the recommendations too literally will you end up using an exacto knife or a water jet cutter.
I need to remake this video because stupid Picasa decided to cut my text overlays down to about 0.2 seconds in duration, but this might be helpful anyway:
Take or leave my advice, dont really care if im "lazy" or if i didnt have enough "brain power". If you have the luxury of leaving your car torn apart (second car) then who cares how long it takes to do sound deadening, for me i didnt have that luxury, so if i had known it was going to take so long just to cut cldtiles i would have just used a big sheet of dynamat and finished it a lot faster. For most it will be the difference between reassembling the car once, or twice.
My step by step setup guide to room EQ wizard with $150 worth of equipment:
I said dynamat or any whatever thin cld that you can get for cheap. dynamat is sometimes found for cheap on sale, but if you find something thats cheaper than sq ft go for it. I recommend the rest of sound deadener showdown products EXCEPT i do not see the point of the cld considering it costs a lot (yes you use less of it, but it takes way more time, thats my entire point). This is a discussion forum and point me to the rule that says "you cannot discuss your opinion here". I didnt say sound deadener showdown is stupid so your attitudes are all bizarre to me. Go ahead and circle jerk about it i guess. Ive said my piece and time for me to bow out
My step by step setup guide to room EQ wizard with $150 worth of equipment:
Sound Deadener Showdown
Linear Mode
