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Old 05-08-2013   #26
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Interesting. I run a pair of IB15's in my Lancer's trunk (smaller than the TL's) and there's little to no difference with the trunk open vs closed. Their response is quite different from the single SBP15 in Ally's Car though. The SBP15 sounded similar to how it does in her Car when we tested it in my car. It's hard to say if the difference between the single SBP15 and the dual IB15s in my car is a difference between the IB and SBP woofers or a difference in there being 1 vs 2 speakers. I'd really like to know the answer to this question.

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Old 05-08-2013   #27
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Grayson- Are yours the original IB15's? The newer IB15AE's have a lower qts (and I believe a slightly lower FS?)so if you have the older model, I could see that making a little difference.

the newer specs:
IB15AU-4 :
Fs: 20.4Hz
Qms: 4.5
Vas: 387L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 152g
Rms: 4.35
Xmax: 18.5mm
Sd: 825sqcm
Vd: 3.05L
Qes: .45
Re: 2.7ohm
Z: 4ohm
BL: 10.8Tm
Le: .163mH
Pe: 300W
Qts: .41
1W SPL: 90.6dB

SBP15-4
Fs: 21.3Hz
Qms: 5.35
Vas: 338L
Cms: .35mm/N
Mms: 152g
Xmax: 18mm
Sd: 825sqcm
Qes: .45
Re: 2.7ohm
Le: .3mH
Z: 4ohm
Bl: 11.1Tm
Qts: .41
1W SPL: 90.65dB

Here's what John had to say about them:

The woofers have very different parameters as the applications are far different. The IB15-HT is used in a very large infinite baffle. It is designed to have an F3 point around 16Hz in this application where there is no cabin gain factored in. They have a higher Q and require a very large area for the infinite baffle chamber. They make very efficient use of Xmax in an application with adequate room in that rear chamber.

The IB15-AU are designed to go in a vehicle and work with cabin gain. They are lower Q, have lower mass, are much more efficient, and as a result require much smaller volumes.

The SBP15 is the upgrade to the IB15-AU. It has a larger motor and thicker top plate. This thicker top plate gives a more broad BL curve for more force and much lower distortion.

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Old 05-08-2013   #28
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I have the automotive version.

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Old 05-08-2013   #29
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

My single SBP-15 seems perfectly matched for my trunk (BMW 3-series). I believe the SBP has a lower QTc than the IB, so it may make more sense to use two SBP's rather than two IB's in a small trunk.
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Old 05-08-2013   #30
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

"Here is my previous setup with 3 IdMax 12s in the same IB configuration, 100hz LP so judge from there down, no EQ. A total of 3 identical 500w amps were used. The only noteworthy aplication difference is driver orientation, IDmax dirvers were facing the cabin while the AE IB15s are facing the trunk. Polarity was reversed in the IB15 case. To keep variables fixed observe the green test where seats where up and trunk was closed for fair comparison.

(AEs are the green and red, trunk open versus closed)




The scale MLS used here was in 5 db steps so it may look a bit mysleading. The output is identical, governed mainly by cabin gain! Both drivers are + - 5db over the range 20hz-100hz. With EQ work I generally obtain + - 3 db which is very acceptable."

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Old 06-03-2013   #31
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Does anyone have the specs for the SBP12-8ohms or 4ohms? Emailed AE a couple times to no avail. Trying to make a comparison w/the IB12AU in regards to: Vas, Qts, mounting depth, & lbs(which may be 25lbs for sbp). Would like to stay w/one 12" sub for height & weight limit & shooting for at least twice my former linear displacement install.

I have a 12w6v2 that I plan to IB install thru ski pass w/mag facing cabin in a 15+ cu ft' trunk & have been debating other choices. Knowing if I go AE it may be some time before I receive them.

Also, could someone please model the first gen 10w6 for me? It was in a 19 to 21 liter sealed fiberglass enclosure, parallel for 3ohms wired to a A300.2 . Figured the Qtc was around .8 or higher in the back corner of a 4dr s10 blazer. Since I truly enjoyed that sound, I may need to use a slightly higher Q or higher Vas in my IB install to capture a similar sound as the old w6(1st gen).

Thanks for any info.

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Old 06-03-2013   #32
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

AE speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.

Automotive IB IB12AU
The IB12AU was designed as the ultimate infinite baffle driver for automotive use. It was designed to be the most accurate, lowest distortion driver ever to go in a vehicle. The high Xmax allows the IB12AU to move large amounts of air very cleanly. Due to the high efficiency, very little Power is needed for these woofers to get loud. The optimal Fs and Qts are designed to work with the cabin gain in an automotive environment. The extended bandwidth assures optimal upper/midbass output that is lacking in most other woofers.

The full copper shorting ring on the pole addresses two of the greatest causes for distortion in loudspeakers that are neglected in most other drivers. This copper sleeve provides extremely low and linear inductance while aiding in heat dissipation from the voice coil. The IB12AU's extremely low inductance allows it to play flat to over 500hz assuring no driver rolloff at the top end and crossover more easily to the mid drivers.

Quite simply, no other automotive infinite baffle driver can match the high levels of clean,low distortion output of the IB12AU.

Explore the Lambda 001 Motor design



IB12AU 8ohm
Fs: 24Hz
Qms: 3.8
Vas: 160L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 110g
Rms: 4.35kg/s
Xmax: 18mm
Xmech: 22mm
Sd: 530sqcm
Vd: 1.9L (p-p)
Qes: .59
Re: 5.5ohm
Le: .33mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 12.5Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .51
1WSPL: 88dB
2.83V: 89.3dB



IB12AU 4ohm
Fs: 24Hz
Qms: 3.8
Vas: 160L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 110g
Rms: 4.35kg/s
Xmax: 18mm
Xmech: 22mm
Sd: 530sqcm
Vd: 1.9L (p-p)
Qes: .59
Re: 2.7ohm
Le: .16mH
Z: 4ohm
Bl: 8.75Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .51
1WSPL: 88dB
2.83V: 92.5dB
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.A.-K.I.D. View Post
Does anyone have the specs for the SBP12-8ohms or 4ohms? Emailed AE a couple times to no avail. Trying to make a comparison w/the IB12AU in regards to: Vas, Qts, mounting depth, & lbs(which may be 25lbs for sbp). Would like to stay w/one 12" sub for height & weight limit & shooting for at least twice my former linear displacement install.

I have a 12w6v2 that I plan to IB install thru ski pass w/mag facing cabin in a 15+ cu ft' trunk & have been debating other choices. Knowing if I go AE it may be some time before I receive them.

Also, could someone please model the first gen 10w6 for me? It was in a 19 to 21 liter sealed fiberglass enclosure, parallel for 3ohms wired to a A300.2 . Figured the Qtc was around .8 or higher in the back corner of a 4dr s10 blazer. Since I truly enjoyed that sound, I may need to use a slightly higher Q or higher Vas in my IB install to capture a similar sound as the old w6(1st gen).

Thanks for any info.
If you already have the 12W6 I would go with that. They sound very, very good IB. While I really like the IB and SBP subs I can't say there's anything to be gained in sound quality over the 12W6, at least in my opinion.

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Old 06-04-2013   #34
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
If you already have the 12W6 I would go with that. They sound very, very good IB. While I really like the IB and SBP subs I can't say there's anything to be gained in sound quality over the 12W6, at least in my opinion.
Thanks for info in more ways then you know, your mad info inspired me to use the w6v2 in IB anyways.You also must have a radar for when a w6v2 is posted, your on it w/a reply most of the times I've seen. I've read damn near all your post here & under your IHC sig, always enjoyed Acura(Honda). First legend I had was a 2dr '88, then a '03 cl type s(Damn good fun. Had a 8w7 for that one, IB might have went well for that.) Now I have an 2dr legend '90 collecting mad dust in the garage. Plan on single 12" IB for that one in a 11.5+ cu ft' trunk.

I plan to use this current w6v2 in a '99 4dr grand prix first anyways, sometimes I have a habit of upgrading unused equipment. Have my eye on those w6v3, mainly because of the rubber surround finally being used, lower Vas(makes it ideal using two in IB), decent Qts, but price, weight, & depth may keep me to use only one. My old 1st gen w6 foam desingrated trying to pull it from the enclosure within a short period of ownership. Could of been excellerated from fiberglass fumes, cascade fumes, or silcone fumes from 1st enclosure. I know it was a common problem & I'm aware of your many years of use(& slight abuse when enclosure wasn't bolted down w/w6v2s). Replaced w6 w/1st gen w3(same locale, same amp, same vehicle, & fiberglass enclosure not as thick but still reused the deflex pad) & it worked but couldn't put my finger on what was missing other then: impact for upper end punch. My install of sub/s is to add depth not entertain/annoy others outside of my vehicle.

I have planned to use boston 5.5lf for midwoofers for a smaller profile kick panel enclosure, & I have some exodus anarchys for standby install. audio Physics Nz3 A/At for midrange to highs. You stated your w6v2 IB install didn't extend to high, 75hz or so there abouts I recall was the sweet spot. I'm sure if its wired to 8ohms compared to 2ohms, inductance rises slightly, that's one reason I've considered others. Even the 15w0v2/v3 looks quite appealing from weight, depth, db/spl, vas, qts,...just height I'm not digging for my choice of install to handle 15". Other wise, It's a no brainer for me to use one 15" from ae, jl, kicker, or even the 13w3v3.

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Old 06-04-2013   #35
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_wrath View Post
AE speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.

Automotive IB IB12AU
The IB12AU was designed as the ultimate infinite baffle driver for automotive use. It was designed to be the most accurate, lowest distortion driver ever to go in a vehicle. The high Xmax allows the IB12AU to move large amounts of air very cleanly. Due to the high efficiency, very little Power is needed for these woofers to get loud. The optimal Fs and Qts are designed to work with the cabin gain in an automotive environment. The extended bandwidth assures optimal upper/midbass output that is lacking in most other..

Explore the Lambda 001 Motor design
IB12AU 8ohm
Fs: 24Hz
Qms: 3.8
Vas: 160L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 110g
Rms: 4.35kg/s
Xmax: 18mm
Xmech: 22mm
Sd: 530sqcm
Vd: 1.9L (p-p)
Qes: .59
Re: 5.5ohm
Le: .33mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 12.5Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .51
1WSPL: 88dB
2.83V: 89.3dB



IB12AU 4ohm
Fs: 24Hz
Qms: 3.8
Vas: 160L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 110g
Rms: 4.35kg/s
Xmax: 18mm
Xmech: 22mm
Sd: 530sqcm
Vd: 1.9L (p-p)
Qes: .59
Re: 2.7ohm
Le: .16mH
Z: 4ohm
Bl: 8.75Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .51
1WSPL: 88dB
2.83V: 92.5dB
Thanks but I have those from AEs site. I'm not sure if you noticed, the SBP15 has slightly different specs then IB15AU: Vas, Qts, mounting depth, & lbs was my main interest and no specs are given for the 12 or 10 SBP thru my research, only SBP15 can dug up. Very limited pdf files given like they only want to push 15's & have you constantly email to get anywhere near purchaseing or getting any info, their site is slow to update products for order.

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Old 06-04-2013   #36
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Just to pass info on, DIYCable is going out of business & some products are discounted until every thing is gone. I order a second pair of Exodus Anarchy for $49.75 per driver but it was only on the weekends for that price.

If one is giving a chance to only have one, cake or icing, which would you chose? Give me the cake(substance), to hell w/the icing(superficial). Silent Assassin - Killing Ignorance Daily aka Smart Ass - Keep It Down.......
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Old 06-07-2013   #37
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

A general observation of thoughts: It appears when dealing w/infinite baffle installs, looking at Vas, desired Qtc, & Le, play an interesting mix for desired outcome. Let alone other parameters must play into it also. If one consider an install that could be at or near Vas x4 w/reasonable Qts(.5 to.6), a fair transient response could be reached w/an average designed subwoffer. AE's IB subs appears to improve transient response thru a copper sleeve & other parameters to achieve desired outcome, so x4 Vas become less of a concern.That's how I'm understanding IB installs for auto vs home, thru my limited research.

If one is giving a chance to only have one, cake or icing, which would you chose? Give me the cake(substance), to hell w/the icing(superficial). Silent Assassin - Killing Ignorance Daily aka Smart Ass - Keep It Down.......

Last edited by S.A.-K.I.D.; 06-07-2013 at 02:32 AM..
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Old 06-07-2013   #38
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A tad off topic but I had a thought about strakele's and cajunner's observations that 2 of the 15s sound different than one or seem like they want more volume.


Any way to use the box stuffing to see if it cleans up the small things you don't like it to do? Maybe stuff a laundry bag or some other breathable sack full so it doesn't just make a huge mess?

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Old 06-07-2013   #39
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.A.-K.I.D. View Post
A general observation of thoughts: It appears when dealing w/infinite baffle installs, looking at Vas, desired Qtc, & Le, play an interesting mix for desired outcome. Let alone other parameters must play into it also. If one consider an install that could be at or near Vas x4 w/reasonable Qts(.5 to.6), a fair transient response could be reached w/an average designed subwoffer. AE's IB subs appears to improve transient response thru a copper sleeve & other parameters to achieve desired outcome, so x4 Vas become less of a concern.That's how I'm understanding IB installs for auto vs home, thru my limited research.
I was under the impression that the copper in the motor lowers distortion, and reduces Power compression. The QTS determines the shape of the rolloff and the FS shows a rolloff point. The airspace the driver "sees" will also affect response with 10X VAS meaning the driver is basically not influenced by the airspace/enclosure, and as the airspace gets smaller and smaller the low end frequency response slowly decreases and the response gets more peaky with a quicker rolloff.

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Last edited by captainobvious; 06-07-2013 at 07:50 AM..
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Old 06-07-2013   #40
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schizm View Post
A tad off topic but I had a thought about strakele's and cajunner's observations that 2 of the 15s sound different than one or seem like they want more volume.


Any way to use the box stuffing to see if it cleans up the small things you don't like it to do? Maybe stuff a laundry bag or some other breathable sack full so it doesn't just make a huge mess?
My pair of IB15s acted like they needed more airspace but adding a pair of extra large pillows behind the subs had a HUGE impact on sound quality. It doesn't seem to matter were the pillows are, if they're directly behind the subs or near the rear of the trunk, the result is about the same. The upper end detail is so much better. Instead of going boom, you hear actual instruments in the sub bass. There's plenty separation between notes. It sounds like they start and stop quicker. I think we need to look into acoustic treatments when going IB. I think my problem was the rear wave making it's way back through the cone.

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Old 06-07-2013   #41
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Nice. And maybe the pillow filling is doing the 'make the volume seem bigger'? Either way its a simple solution

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Old 06-07-2013   #42
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I thought I would add, these are cheap pillows, probably polyfill type material inside. I've bought a lot of pillows, it's nice to have an assortment for the times my back acts up at night. I took these because they were the cheapest and biggest and the only ones I could get away with sticking in the Car without getting too much grief.

It's significantly reduced the need to adjust sub level and EQ for different songs and different generes. What sounds good on rap also sounds good on classical or rock or country. I guess it makes sense. People worry about the backwave in a sealed box, why not in IB. One thing it did was make these IB15s sound a lot more like the W6s IB. I'm only guessing but maybe a reflected backwave is more likely to get through a thin light paper cone rather than the W poly cone. With the W6 it has to get through the poly and two layers of it with an air gap in the center.

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Old 06-07-2013   #43
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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I was under the impression that the copper in the motor lowers distortion, and reduces Power compression. The QTS determines the shape of the rolloff and the FS shows a rolloff point. The airspace the driver "sees" will also affect response with 10X VAS meaning the driver is basically not influenced by the airspace/enclosure, and as the airspace gets smaller and smaller the low end frequency response slowly decreases and the response gets more peaky with a quicker rolloff.
Very well written & that's how I truly overstand(meaning beyond understanding to me) it.I guess we're just splitting hairs & missing the point, enjoying the music, that's why I keep studying & building.

Experiment to find what gives one audio pleasure in a truly difficult, damn near worst environment, the automobile. I will remain enjoying the passion: building, fabrication, woodworking, upholstery, electrical, elelectronics, etc...enjoy the music.

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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Maybe one day I will get a straight forward & accurate answer to this imposing question: AE's IB12Au specs claim 18mm xmax, while I'm given 14mm (even research 10mm) for SBP12 specs. Which is true so I can get a more meaningful linear displacement comparison? Does a person have to buy said products to do their own measurements? And I've email this question before to the appropriate company before someone suggest such.

If one is giving a chance to only have one, cake or icing, which would you chose? Give me the cake(substance), to hell w/the icing(superficial). Silent Assassin - Killing Ignorance Daily aka Smart Ass - Keep It Down.......
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Old 06-10-2013   #45
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

The AE's IB12Au has 18mm of excursion.

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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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The AE's IB12Au has 18mm of excursion.
Thanks but I overstand that claim. Now the SBP has conflicting info, 10mm but stated as 14mm actual. I overstand thicker top/frnt plate w/bigger magnet. They share most of the same parts but you telling me the xmax changed as such. Ok, then surface area should be different on one.

I am damn near done researching such simple info thats not given thru said company's site, pdf files, email contact, etc.......

Thanks for trying, IBcivic, appreciate the effort.

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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Thanks but I overstand that claim. Now the SBP has conflicting info, 10mm but stated as 14mm actual. I overstand thicker top/frnt plate w/bigger magnet. They share most of the same parts but you telling me the xmax changed as such. Ok, then surface area should be different on one.

I am damn near done researching such simple info thats not given thru said company's site, pdf files, email contact, etc.......

Thanks for trying, IBcivic, appreciate the effort.
Conflicting info from where?

The AE IB12Au is a different driver than the SBP-12. I'm not sure what you're question is or what you're really looking for. Are you trying to decide between the SBP12 and IB12AU?

The latest about the specs on the SBP12 (granted it was in 2011) is that it has 14mm of xmax. That's measured using BL and not overhang. Assume 14mm of xmax with the SBP12. Which one to use would depend on your installation.

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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Conflicting info from where?

The AE IB12Au is a different driver than the SBP-12. I'm not sure what you're question is or what you're really looking for. Are you trying to decide between the SBP12 and IB12AU?

The latest about the specs on the SBP12 (granted it was in 2011) is that it has 14mm of xmax. That's measured using BL and not overhang. Assume 14mm of xmax with the SBP12. Which one to use would depend on your installation.
Ok, Cap, let me clarify. Yes, I'm comparing SBP12 vs IB12AU. Figured since I started my posting on a SBP15 review, I may gather needed info.

If one looks at TD15 pdf files, its mounting depth is considered the same for the SBP15. So if the IB15AU has a different mounting depth then SBP15, then one may assume a difference between IB12AU vs SBP12(in which the TD12 has it at 6.55").

That's one minor concern of mine. Next is xmax, which you already stated and was aware. So according to what was stated, SBP12 is 14mm at bl & IB12AU is 18mm. So do both share the same mounting depth as the TD subs?

Qts & Vas is slightly different between SBP15 vs IB15AU, so can we assume again there is or maybe a difference between SBP12 vs IB12AU?

I would like to at least double the surface area & linear displacement of a former install of a single 10w6(gen 1) sealed enclosure w/one 12" in IB install in a car. A single 15 would solve both but height can't be acheived w/the desired mount locale within reason. Two 12" could work decently but I want to keep weight down more then output for now.

Its been stated that the SBP15 comes in at 25lbs & IB15Au comes in about 20lbs. Do those weight differences apply for the SBP12 & IB12AU as well? I'm aware the IB15HT were about 17/18lbs, which is cool in my opinion. Hope that is clear then before Cap, I'm aware I'm splitting hairs but what else is a barber to do. Thanks for the feedback.

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Old 06-10-2013   #49
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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A tad off topic but I had a thought about strakele's and cajunner's observations that 2 of the 15s sound different than one or seem like they want more volume.


Any way to use the box stuffing to see if it cleans up the small things you don't like it to do? Maybe stuff a laundry bag or some other breathable sack full so it doesn't just make a huge mess?
The thing is, leaving the trunk wide open doesn't make a difference in my Car at all.

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Still a cheap thing to try pillows that might break up any backwave off the bottom trunk wall when its open. Though if this was the case I'm guessing there would be SOME change with the trunk open vs closed too.

Grab a couple pillows and toss em in. Can't hurt to try! Much! Lol

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