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Old 06-10-2013   #51
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by strakele View Post
The thing is, leaving the trunk wide open doesn't make a difference in my Car at all.
How many subs are you runnning?

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Old 06-10-2013   #52
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

No where near enough suspension to support 18mm one way.


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Originally Posted by IBcivic View Post
The AE's IB12Au has 18mm of excursion.
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Old 06-10-2013   #53
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Acoustic Elegance iB12-8

Klippel verified to not be near 18mm one way excursion.
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Old 06-10-2013   #54
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I think the IB12 (AU12) klippeled around 10mm one way travel suspension limited. I believe it was said this type of distortion is less offensive than BL or inductance.

As far as suspension, it is the limiting factor, these are IB subs afterall. I don't know about the IB12 but the IB15 which I believe shares the motor and spider with the 12 will most definitely do 18mm one way and more. I don't know if it's linear but it will mechanically exceed 18mm. Unless the surround is what limits the 12, I don't see why it shouldn't have the same travel as the 15. I've hit them with 18hz test tones when I first installed them while watching them to get an idea of where to limit volume. I pushed them farther than I was comfortable and they had some serious excurion. The thing about these subs is the sound doesn't seem to change as you turn the volume up. They sound exactly the same at high output as low output. Maybe it's the inductance treatment.

I believe going by BL, xmax was 18.5mm.

I was never aware the SBP subs had less travel. They have more motor strength, slightly lower distortion, same cone and spider and surround as far as I know, only the motor is different. I thought xmax and xmech were the same. Maybe it's time to get John in here to clarify.

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Old 06-10-2013   #55
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Originally Posted by strakele View Post
The thing is, leaving the trunk wide open doesn't make a difference in my Car at all.
And it does in mine...
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Old 06-10-2013   #56
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Originally Posted by millerlyte View Post
And it does in mine...
What's the chance of you two or even just one of you throwing some pillows in there like I did? I just want to see if anyone else notices the same change. I believe one person experienced the same thing but I know you guys have everything already tuned very well.

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Old 06-10-2013   #57
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I did just for funsies. Minor difference in closed trunk with no pillows and closed trunk with pillows. Not as drastic as open trunk though.
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Pillow fight strakele when he gets home!

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[he has the] personality of a syphalytic hedgehog trying to facef#ck its way into infected sinuses
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Old 06-10-2013   #59
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
How many subs are you runnning?
2. Will try some pillows and other stuff when I go out to do some experimenting later.

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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Those aren't pillows! ........... How about them bears?!?
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Old 06-10-2013   #61
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
No where near enough suspension to support 18mm one way.
Silly me for believing AE's advertised claims.

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Old 06-10-2013   #62
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
Acoustic Elegance iB12-8

Klippel verified to not be near 18mm one way excursion.
Thanks for sharing this thread, it was very enlightening & cleared most of my trivial concerns. For me, it's all for enjoying the journey to enjoying the music. Be well, be safe, & take care of ones ears.

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Old 06-10-2013   #63
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Those aren't pillows! ........... How about them bears?!?
I haven't seen that movie in 10 years. Now I want to see it again.

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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

That hotel scene was filmed near my childhood home. Big news for a small town. Steve Martin and John Candy......classic!
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Old 06-11-2013   #65
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I had a 12 and 15...and even at first glance I had really serious doubts about the small spider and surround being able to support the advertised claims about excursion. And then I started thinking about the suspension on the ID Maxes I had and Audiomobile Mass 2012 I had back in the day...both of which had roughly the same throw these are claimed to have, and both had much more robust suspensions. The suspension on the 15 was smaller than the IDQ-15 I had setting next to it, and the IDQ was advertised with much less throw.

I am not saying they aren't great speakers...just the excursion claims are a bit off. Which, you will see time to time like I saw in the SDX-7s I used to have

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Silly me for believing AE's advertised claims.
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Old 06-11-2013   #66
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Seems like xmax is generally rated by a mechanical property like voice coil overhang, rather than how long it is truly linear.

Not a single Speaker Erin has tested on the Klippel has met the claimed xmax, that I've seen anyway.

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Old 06-11-2013   #67
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
I had a 12 and 15...and even at first glance I had really serious doubts about the small spider and surround being able to support the advertised claims about excursion. And then I started thinking about the suspension on the ID Maxes I had and Audiomobile Mass 2012 I had back in the day...both of which had roughly the same throw these are claimed to have, and both had much more robust suspensions. The suspension on the 15 was smaller than the IDQ-15 I had setting next to it, and the IDQ was advertised with much less throw.

I am not saying they aren't great speakers...just the excursion claims are a bit off. Which, you will see time to time like I saw in the SDX-7s I used to have
What I get out of it is if xmax were based off of BL the claimed xmax would be spot on. The suspension limits it no doubt but it kind of has to in an IB specific sub unless it uses technology like JBL uses.

What I want to clarify is even if it isn't linear, these subs will most definitely travel more than 18mm. I've had them to roughly 2" peak to peak travel back when I had them on 1,000w and they sounded fine. Don't most people think that distortion from suspension compliance is the least offensive? Meaning that BL and LE distortion are still very, very low still when it hits the 10.8mm xmax based on suspension? Or said another way, the sub is not going to just give up after 10mm of throw, it's still going to sound very nice way past that excursion level.

Not totally irrelevant is the higher than average cone area for a 15" sub so it does not have to move as far for the same SPL. Even when I'm not caring that much for SQ and I just want the subs to drown everything out, excursion is always surprisingly low when I take a peek at the subs. That's the nice thing about a pair of 15s with lots of cone area, they don't have to move much to generate decent output. Even at 10mm they're seriously loud. Usually with mild to moderate listening volumes these subs rarely move more than a couple mm. Most of the time I can't see them move.

I agree that the spider is probably holding it back. I would guess it's the spider and not the surround anyway in which case it might possibly change xmax between the 12 and 15. Looking at my 12W6 it has a spider that's at least as large as the cone. Same with the 13W7. I wish there was a way to use a really great suspension on these subs. I'll still probably end up with a pair of 13W7s eventually. The have almost as much cone area as a low cone area 15 and with over 4" of peak to peak mechanical throw they will have more output.

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Old 06-11-2013   #68
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by strakele View Post
Seems like xmax is generally rated by a mechanical property like voice coil overhang, rather than how long it is truly linear.

Not a single Speaker Erin has tested on the Klippel has met the claimed xmax, that I've seen anyway.
Other than PA drivers, I've only seen 3 drivers meet or exceed their rated Xmax:
JBL Gti660 mid (Erin) - rated as 5.36mm and tested to have 7.4mm
Scan 18WU mid (Erin) - rated as 9.00mm and tested to have 9.1mm
Dayton Ultimax (VC Mag) - rated as 19.00mm and tested to have 21.9mm

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I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
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Old 06-11-2013   #69
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Add the Dynaudio 430 to that list. 3.5mm klippel verified. 2.45mm manufacturers claim.

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Old 06-11-2013   #70
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

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Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
Add the Dynaudio 430 to that list. 3.5mm klippel verified. 2.45mm manufacturers claim.
More like 2.6mm (BL limited) Klippel tested but yeah, it's now on the list

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I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
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Old 06-11-2013   #71
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery View Post
More like 2.6mm (BL limited) Klippel tested but yeah, it's now on the list

Kelvin
Two different 430s were tested at separate times. The first one was mine shipped brand new from Dyn to Erin. He saw my speakers before I did. They had zero play time and that was the one with 2.6mm xmax.

Later Erin used one of Jerry's well broken in 430s and that is the one with 3.5mm xmax. Some people debate the importance of break-in but I put more weight on the broken in one especially knowing how consistent Dyn is in their specs and build.

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Old 06-12-2013   #72
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
Two different 430s were tested at separate times. The first one was mine shipped brand new from Dyn to Erin. He saw my speakers before I did. They had zero play time and that was the one with 2.6mm xmax.

Later Erin used one of Jerry's well broken in 430s and that is the one with 3.5mm xmax. Some people debate the importance of break-in but I put more weight on the broken in one especially knowing how consistent Dyn is in their specs and build.
Totally correct.

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Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Old 06-12-2013   #73
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I thought the v3 IDQ-10 met it's advertised claims...and it has a suspension much larger and roubst than the AE for the same amount of throw.

The Dayton Reference 12 tested here met it's claims of 14mm. I have the 15, and it too has a much larger suspension than the AE 15 I used to have had.
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Old 06-12-2013   #74
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

To bring this slightly more back on topic.. ignore what I said about the pair of IB15s sounding totally different in my Car than the single SBP15 in Ally's. I had the freaking subsonic filter on the amp up which is why I thought mine were lacking in the low lows. It's all good now.

SBP15 is an outstanding sounding sub regardless.

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Old 06-12-2013   #75
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance SBP15-4 review

I bet it is...was my first choice, just didn't have the funds for it.
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