JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me! - Page 11 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 12-05-2012   #251
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I've been looking at using separate components until I stumbled across this thread. Are these able to compete with things like the prestige tweeters and id oem drivers? (just two examples, don't read too far into the brands) For the price I have to admit I'm very tempted to jump on the bandwagon. I would run these off of a xd600/6 tweeters getting 75w each and drivers getting 150w each. Do the people who have experience with these think that this combination would be better than separates?

Last edited by 98koukile; 12-05-2012 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 12-05-2012   #252
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Yes. I do believe they would be.

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Old 12-05-2012   #253
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98koukile View Post
I've been looking at using separate components until I stumbled across this thread. Are these able to compete with things like the prestige tweeters and id oem drivers? (just two examples, don't read too far into the brands) For the price I have to admit I'm very tempted to jump on the bandwagon. I would run these off of a xd600/6 tweeters getting 75w each and drivers getting 150w each. Do the people who have experience with these think that this combination would be better than separates?
For the money they are almost impossible to beat (imo)
Your Power ratio is perfect too (imo)

The ID oem's would probably have a little more on the lower end/output.....midrange? jbl's own it! No question.......Tweets, I would also give the nod to the Jbl's. If your running a sub and it doesnt have to be run lower the 80hz........again.....Pretty tough to beat the jbl set?
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Old 12-05-2012   #254
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexroadj View Post
For the money they are almost impossible to beat (imo)
Your Power ratio is perfect too (imo)

The ID oem's would probably have a little more on the lower end/output.....midrange? jbl's own it! No question.......Tweets, I would also give the nod to the Jbl's. If your running a sub and it doesnt have to be run lower the 80hz........again.....Pretty tough to beat the jbl set?
And to add.......the installation of the midbass in the door is going to make or break your expectations. Read up if you need to. But to summarize you want to install that driver in as most a loudspeaker enclosure like install as you can. It doesn't have to be that precise but stressing that extreme results in appropriate results for most.


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Old 12-05-2012   #255
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
And to add.......the installation of the midbass in the door is going to make or break your expectations. Read up if you need to. But to summarize you want to install that driver in as most a loudspeaker enclosure as you can. It doesn't have to be that precise but stressing that extreme results in appropriate results for most.
What he said! Install Install Install....when you think you have deadened and sealed enough.....do it more! Placement, etc.......
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Old 12-05-2012   #256
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

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Originally Posted by rexroadj View Post
What he said! Install Install Install....when you think you have deadened and sealed enough.....do it more! Placement, etc.......
I have to revisit my doors and door panels for the third time now. I have my panels in the middle of the living room floor right now with a bulk back of stinger road kill. Tried the 25% thing and it's just not working for me.

Sorry,had to take a break my fingers are were starting to cramp.

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Old 12-05-2012   #257
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I bought 60 sq ft for two cars, I'm thinking if I need more I'll wait until another sale, the doors are going to be getting the most treatment at first since it will all be torn apart for the speakers. It's hard to just drop $600+ on this stuff sometimes so increments are necessary. It's also a compromise of performance (read: weight) and sound.
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Old 12-06-2012   #258
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I played with the passive crossovers a bit today for the MS52c and thought I would share my experience. The mids seem to be bandpassed and allowed to roll off naturally. I ran my active mid input to the x over and then adjusted the crossover point up until it no longer seemed to extend the drivers response and that never happened. I did the same for the tweeter. Ran my active tweeter input into the passive input and passive tweeter output to the tweeter and kept lowering the crossover point until no difference was heard. The tweeter as stated before seems to have a pretty low X over point of about 2100 hz. I would recommend crossing over at that point active if you are running less than 80 watts RMS with clean signal. With more Power cross higher, 3.1 or 4000hz. I have been using these active for about a week and was more impressed with them when I used the passive crossover that is supplied.

After trying to copy the slopes and x over points of the passive system the best I could with my active one, it seemed to improve the performance dramatically. I dropped the tweeters by 6db and ran them at 2500hz and up. I crossed the mids 200 hz and up and let them roll off naturally and this seemed to sound most like the passive unit. The only reason I dropped the tweeter output is not because I like the way it sounds, but because I have 150 watts per channel on tap and I want to play it safe.

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Old 12-06-2012   #259
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carter1010 View Post
I played with the passive crossovers a bit today for the MS52c and thought I would share my experience. The mids seem to be bandpassed and allowed to roll off naturally. I ran my active mid input to the x over and then adjusted the crossover point up until it no longer seemed to extend the drivers response and that never happened. I did the same for the tweeter. Ran my active tweeter input into the passive input and passive tweeter output to the tweeter and kept lower the crossover point until no difference was heard. The tweeter as stated before seems to have a pretty low X over point of about 2100 hz. I would recommend crossing over at that point active if you are running less than 80 watts RMS with clean signal. With more Power cross higher, 3.1 or 4000hz. I have been using these active for about a week and was more impressed with them when I used the passive crossover that is supplied.

After trying to copy the slopes and x over points of the passive system the best I could with my active one, it seemed to improve the performance dramatically. I dropped the tweeters by 6db and ran them at 2500hz and up. I crossed the mids 200 hz and up and let them roll off naturally and this seemed to sound most like the passive unit. The only reason I dropped the tweeter output is not because I like the way it sounds, but because I have 150 watts per channel on tap and I want to play it safe.
How low did you try to run the mid?
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Old 12-06-2012   #260
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

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Originally Posted by WannaBBurly View Post
How low did you try to run the mid?
With the Pioneer P9 combo, the lowest I can set the mid range crossover is 200hz at a 6db slope so I didn't run them any lower than that.

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Old 12-06-2012   #261
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carter1010 View Post
I played with the passive crossovers a bit today for the MS52c and thought I would share my experience. The mids seem to be bandpassed and allowed to roll off naturally. I ran my active mid input to the x over and then adjusted the crossover point up until it no longer seemed to extend the drivers response and that never happened. I did the same for the tweeter. Ran my active tweeter input into the passive input and passive tweeter output to the tweeter and kept lower the crossover point until no difference was heard. The tweeter as stated before seems to have a pretty low X over point of about 2100 hz. I would recommend crossing over at that point active if you are running less than 80 watts RMS with clean signal. With more Power cross higher, 3.1 or 4000hz. I have been using these active for about a week and was more impressed with them when I used the passive crossover that is supplied.

After trying to copy the slopes and x over points of the passive system the best I could with my active one, it seemed to improve the performance dramatically. I dropped the tweeters by 6db and ran them at 2500hz and up. I crossed the mids 200 hz and up and let them roll off naturally and this seemed to sound most like the passive unit. The only reason I dropped the tweeter output is not because I like the way it sounds, but because I have 150 watts per channel on tap and I want to play it safe.
I don't think its really matter how powerful the amplifier is, as long as it is well behaved and does not send unexpected pop signals, etc. to the tweeter. The amplifier may have 150watts on tap, before clipping, but that's when you send a 0dB signal. If you look at music in a spectrum analyzer, typically higher frequencies (from 3KHz on) peak at -20 to -30dB, and never seem to exceed -20dB. So the amplifier will never be asked to send 150watts to the tweeter with normal music. A more serious issue is to send frequencies that are too low for tweeter to handle. One standard way to deal with this is to install a capacitor, which should create a first order passive high pass filter at a desired frequency.


Anyways. If I had 5 inch mids, my preference would be to let them play at least to 3KHz. The logic is that the 5 inch mids can play up to something like 3KHz flat (if they don't suffer from break-up) when installed off axis, as is normal in a car, while a 6inch mid starts beaming at 2KHz and will have a big dip by 2.5KHz and will need equalizer adjusted. For tweeters, THD rises as you lower their high pass crossover, so for an average Car tweeter, the higher the high pass frequency the better, while a 5 inch mid can be loud at 3KHz without straining.
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Old 12-06-2012   #262
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

It seemed while running active I could easily push the MS52c to its limits while I could not do this with the C508GTImkii components. The C508 comps could take all the volume I have on tap (amp gains set with SMD1 at max volume, no clipping from Pioneer P9 combo at max volume). The MS52c can not and my volume is limited to -13db before audible breakup occurs. It was this lack of composure that made me curious about how the mid and tweeter interact through the passive. Initially I had the crossover set to 4k for both the mid and tweeter at a 18db slope. After installing the passive on one side I heard a very distinct difference in the passive slope and what I was running active. Once I matched the active to the passive as closely as I could, bandpassing the mid from 200hz and up and running the tweeter at 2.5 with a sharp slope, imaging was better, stage depth improved, and the resolution was better. I set the tweeter to -6db on the passive and am able to bring my volume up to around 8-9 before issues are present.

I really was not successful in increasing the composure of the comp set at the volume I wanted by using the passives and this was a bit of a disappointment. I was however able, and this was by accident, to improve the soundstage. Understanding the passive crossover that comes with the set, mainly letting the mid naturally roll off and set the cutoff of the tweeter to 2.5k seemed to improve sonic performance overall, with a sacrifice in Power handling. I think this is why there is a phase plug on the mid in this set, to equalize the higher frequency output of the mid past 2000hz.

Right now the passives are in place as I want to spend some time with them before I go back to active to make sure that I understand how the set was intended to sound. Just have to be easy on my volume : )

I would be very interested in what opinions are out there regarding the passive crossover in this set and the frequencies and slopes of the dividing network which I suspect should be the same for both the 62c and 52c?

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Old 12-07-2012   #263
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

So is every one that's running them active emulating the passive crossover for sound and then feeding them more Power than they can handle otherwise? The reason I ask is because I will be running these with a ms8 and it will be taking care of the setup and from what I've read that leaves me little room to play with the settings.
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Old 12-07-2012   #264
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I haven't had a chance to read through every single post, but I am running the JBL MS 62C's using the factory head unit in my Honda CR-V with a audio Control LC6i powered by an Alpine PDX V9. The highs seem a little harsh and when I try to correct it by using setting the tweeter to -3, the speakers sound lifeless. Did any of you experience this? My last Car had JL audio C5 components so that is my reference. I'm only moderately happy with the sound of the MS 62C's. Not really blown away.
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Old 12-07-2012   #265
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Those tweeters sound nice, but they can run you out of the Car if you're not careful. After my initial listening sessions with them, my ears wrung for 2 weeks. I pointed them away from me (about 90 degrees) toward the floorboard and now I can listen to them all day long. It's amazing how much of the highs you can still hear without them in you face.

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Old 12-07-2012   #266
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I had these in my shopping cart on ebay and now I'm getting cold feet. I'd love to hear them in person before I bought them but I think I just need to pull the trigger. If I don't like them a diy setup can just as easily be installed after the fact
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Old 12-07-2012   #267
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

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Originally Posted by 98koukile View Post
I had these in my shopping cart on ebay and now I'm getting cold feet. I'd love to hear them in person before I bought them but I think I just need to pull the trigger. If I don't like them a diy setup can just as easily be installed after the fact
It's been about 3 years since I last listened to the JL audio C5's that I had and the overall setup (e.g., amps, head unit, etc.) was a lot better. The JBL MS 62C's I have installed sound pretty bright, almost harsh, compared to the JL's. This is most likely due to the metal dome tweeter in the JBL's vs the silk dome tweeter in the JL's. I liked the smoother highs of the JL's however, the C5's were also $300 more than the JBL's. For the money, the JBL's do a fantastic job. I did a comparison with Alpine Type R components installed in another vehicle and I can tell you the JBL's reproduced vocals much better than the Alpines. The Alpines were louder but I'm pretty sure that's due to the fact he was running 800 watts to a set of components.
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Old 12-07-2012   #268
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

FYI.....The problem is not the "metal" domes......People love to blame the material. Bottom line is that its about the install and tuning PERIOD!

Same goes for those that said Focal, Quart, JBL608 tweets were harsh. NO, actually they are absolutely amazing/breathtaking if you know how to use them properly! OFF axis is a GREAT way to start (thats the whole point of metal domes and why they can be great in cars......work best off axis (most cases)! The MS tweets are probably some of the most forgiving metal tweets I have ever dealt with (dont have to be super off axis and really wont/shouldnt "bite your head off" if you happen to have them on axis. Adjustments need to be made. If you do you will be extremely pleased! (best part of the set imo actually?).

Work with what you have first....till all options are exhausted! If you do that, you will always be pleasantly surprised!
The material has nothing to do with it though. Just have to educate yourself on the best way to use each particular material in each specific situation



FYI- C5 is an AWESOME set!!!!!

Last edited by rexroadj; 12-07-2012 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 12-07-2012   #269
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Well, got my MS62s in the mail yesterday even though AAFES hadn't updated the status. They're definitely smexy, but did we really need such a large manual in 27 different languages?

I'm looking into filling out the rest of my order for what's left before I can install. Is there any benefit to going bigger than 14ga for Speaker wire? I was thinking Knu TCA for going between the amp and crossover.
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Old 12-07-2012   #270
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I always run 12..(8 to subs)..but thats because I'm an asshole! 14 is MORE then adequate for anything you will likely be doing!
Good luck with your system!
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Old 12-07-2012   #271
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Thanks, rex. First time I'm intentionally making a SQ system for myself. Last time, it just happened by accident when I discovered Rainbow SLCs at a local shop. Had no clue what I was doing at the time, though.
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Old 12-07-2012   #272
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

I hope to save you and anyone else reading this some time and money......DO yourself a favor....when you get something that gives you a shit eating grin and goose bumps when you play your favorite tracks (whatever they may be). Call it a day! Just enjoy it! anything from that moment on is nothing more then a step sideways! Dont get caught up in the "latest greatest" just enjoy your music when you can! (rainbow makes some fantastic stuff!)
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Old 12-07-2012   #273
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexroadj View Post
I hope to save you and anyone else reading this some time and money......DO yourself a favor....when you get something that gives you a shit eating grin and goose bumps when you play your favorite tracks (whatever they may be). Call it a day! Just enjoy it! anything from that moment on is nothing more then a step sideways! Dont get caught up in the "latest greatest" just enjoy your music when you can! (rainbow makes some fantastic stuff!)
QFT. Problem is, it still might cost you a shit ton of money to get where you've got a shit eating grin while listening in your car.

Love your avatar btw.
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Old 12-07-2012   #274
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

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Originally Posted by lucky View Post
QFT. Problem is, it still might cost you a shit ton of money to get where you've got a shit eating grin while listening in your car.

Love your avatar btw.
LoL...Thanks

You'd be surprised how simple it can still be I have used everything from Alpine F#1, Brax, etc...to sparkomatic......there is definitely a happy medium to be had. Install is #1. Tuning #2. Signal source #3, etc........ Once you get to a certain point its all sideways! I'm not saying you can do it with junk. I'm just saying when you get there......QUIT and enjoy it!!!!
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Old 12-07-2012   #275
 
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Default Re: JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me!

That's my overall goal. I don't have a bunch of money as it is, so I really do go for bang for the buck (one of the reasons I came to DIYMA and ca.com in the first place). You guys and the bloke from talkaudio.co.uk pretty much convinced me to buy these without even auditioning them (first time ever for that). I really have been trying to maintain the DIY spirit and know it'll be much more gratifying in the end.
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