Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit - Page 18 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 01-03-2017   #426
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
The Aux input unfortunately runs seperately a the high level inputs. I need the rears of the high level input as that is connected to my rear parking sensors sound. So i I have music playing on the aux, I will not hear my parking sensors sound. Thats why i am checking if it is possible to convert rca back to speaker level and to do so at a good enough quality level.

Can you explain more about the android device? i do not see it on your web site.

I assume I need to purchase the apl workshop as well to measure the car response? Or does it come with the apl1?
And what about Optical SPDIF-Toslink input?
You should use an Android device of your choice - a phone, a mini PC, a head unit - to play your music (it probably will replace your idrive). Than it is possible to run the APL`s equalizer on such device as an app. Workshop software and APL1 unit are products that are creating a set but they are being sold separately. You should have Workshop to create EQ files for app on Android device.

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Old 01-03-2017   #427
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
by use of parameter "EQ zero level" in Workshop software. If you set it to -15 for example, you will have 15 dB attenuation in fir filter
Somehow I didn't see that setting, usefull!

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Old 01-03-2017   #428
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I took two measurements with TDA today, this is with the APL1 set to flat:



And with the tune I posted last night:



Some parts look better before, some look better after.

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Old 01-03-2017   #429
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Thank you for nice examples!
They are far field pictures when ambient sound field is dominating over direct sound. It is showing the real complexity of a car environment.
It can not be improved by any electronic (correction) means.
This picture is changing dramatically from one to another mic position point.
It is possible to find a point with better direct - ambient sound ratio to use it to set the timing.
We can improve this picture only by right loudspeaker`s placement.
It is possible to get such picture even in a car:

You can see the serious timing error in LF caused by a blind tuning by use of a ruler ...
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Old 01-04-2017   #430
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

And following previous question.
Such TDA image may be in case when a wide band loudspeaker is used for all the way to 20 kHz. Such loudspeaker has very uneven directivity and strong side lobes. That lobes are are creating reflections that are stronger then direct sound.

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Old 01-04-2017   #431
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

It would be interesting to do a tune with Workshop with the top down and compare it with the top up tune. Even more interesting to see the TDA charts between the two. Unfortunately, I just shipped the laptop I do my testing with off to a show, and I leave to go work that show on Sunday. I have three shows in a row and won't be home to do any more tuning and testing until March.

However, in March I'll have all my new speakers ready to install.

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Old 01-04-2017   #432
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
Can you explain more about the android device? i do not see it on your web site.
I am awaiting more information on this as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
You should have Workshop to create EQ files for app on Android device.
So there is a stand alone android app that will accept the APL workshop file??
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Old 01-04-2017   #433
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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So there is a stand alone android app that will accept the APL workshop file??
Yes, the app emulates APL1 unit or APL EP1 VST plugin.

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Old 01-06-2017   #434
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

What Raimonds suggests is an app called Viper4android, which comprises an convolver capable to work with the 7files made from measurements carried out by the Workshop.

So you do not need apl1 box in a car, if you have android based head unit or smartphone as a source.

Using smartphone, it is possible to listen music from in-built speaker, ear-phone or another device connected by bluetooth or usb cable. Starting from Lollipop, all android versions support USB audio out. In this case you can just use the latest version of Poweramp or USB recorder Pro from the Google Play.

It is possible to get correction files to every acoustic system you own. Really smart


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Old 01-06-2017   #435
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Thanks for the reply...

I have been working on getting BruteFIR to work with my gear, will APL Workshop files work with BruteFIR on a linux system? SO far I have only seen PCM or WAV files used for the Brutefir filters.

I am still reading and learning BruteFIR, it is alot to learn at once...

If I am able to use one less piece of gear(APL1) and use the BruteFIR as convolver instead, that would be amazing..
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Old 01-06-2017   #436
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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Originally Posted by felix509 View Post
Thanks for the reply...

I have been working on getting BruteFIR to work with my gear, will APL Workshop files work with BruteFIR on a linux system? SO far I have only seen PCM or WAV files used for the Brutefir filters.

I am still reading and learning BruteFIR, it is alot to learn at once...

If I am able to use one less piece of gear(APL1) and use the BruteFIR as convolver instead, that would be amazing..
Yes, it is possible to convert APL`s fir files to any third party fir filter file format on demand.

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Old 01-28-2017   #437
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Dear Friends,

Some announcement.

Acoustic Power Lab (APL) has become SynAudCon sponsor! It is well-known training company among audio engineers and sound system professionals. SynAudCon offers practical and relevant education through their in-person seminars, online training, memberís forum, and their online educational library.
Celebrating this event we want to share our joy with our clients and we have fantastic gifts:
SynAudCom membership opens the door to a wealth of audio information and provides unlimited opportunity for connecting and collaborating with thousands of industry professionals. It also includes: memberís forum; over 500 technical articles on audio and acoustics; intensive field studies; RIR exchange; member directory.
And the most valuable present is a chance to attend training course at SynAudCon. All the detailed information will be given individually.
(Simply make an order for any of APL products and get your present! )
Please contact APL to get your free SynAudCom membership or to attend training course at SynAudCon. (Prospective customers will have preference.)
Notice: the present amount is limited!
Also, to support an education and in conjunction with this event, APL is offering APL TDA softwareís individual license for studentís license price for one month.

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Old 02-17-2017   #438
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Is it possible to mount it in a system with passive filters? In this case the "apl1" will mount before the passive filter ?.

Finally they did not upload any videos

Greetings.
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Old 02-17-2017   #439
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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Originally Posted by oscardillo View Post
Is it possible to mount it in a system with passive filters? In this case the "apl1" will mount before the passive filter ?.

Finally they did not upload any videos

Greetings.
Sure you can, itís the typical use with regular speakers.
Although in car itís maybe not the first thing to do, if your passive crossover is already great why not, it will work.
But you might gain more by switching first to full active and EQ.

Horny Froggy...
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I have been using this solution with 3way front in almost two years. It was necessary as apl1 is limited to only two channels. Works great. Will keep this passive setup for a couple of years more.

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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardillo View Post
Is it possible to mount it in a system with passive filters? In this case the "apl1" will mount before the passive filter ?.

Finally they did not upload any videos

Greetings.
I have mine between my iPhone and head unit, works great!

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Old 02-21-2017   #442
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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Yes, the app emulates APL1 unit or APL EP1 VST plugin.
What app?
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Old 02-21-2017   #443
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I am trying out the software without the actual unit. So far I have been converting my songs using the MP1 target. MP1 seems to emphasize bass more rather then strings which is my preference. So I am hoping for another target to shoot for. I believe the 2-3k dip does seem to make vocals feel a little lean and less warm. The lower bass also sometimes seem to sound a little heavy. As such, I was wondering if anyone else has decided on other target levels and why?



Also does going for say 300-400 points per measurement improve on the accuracy instead of the typical 150-200 for each side measurement painting? I am facing a issue where I seem to have a big dip at 1k and 5-7k region on both sides. But if I do a average RTA with pink noise, there is no big dip at that region around my head region. Changing my crossovers and slope which are nowhere near that area does not seem to impact or change that dip which APL workshop is saying exist. At the moment, I am measuring sitting in the driver position and painting starting from the wind screen from up to down and moving slowly back to just before the back of the front seats. No lower then the door windows and carefully avoiding the playing speakers by around 15-20cm.
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Old 02-21-2017   #444
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
I am trying out the software without the actual unit. So far I have been converting my songs using the MP1 target. MP1 seems to emphasize bass more rather then strings which is my preference. So I am hoping for another target to shoot for. I believe the 2-3k dip does seem to make vocals feel a little lean and less warm. The lower bass also sometimes seem to sound a little heavy. As such, I was wondering if anyone else has decided on other target levels and why?
It's really car/setup/driving/loudness dependant, and of course personal taste. Mp1 is perfect for my daily drive which is low speed. When I prefer flatter for listening session engine off, and more bass when driving faster.
I have an mp1 version with the dip "filled", but it can cause a bit of ear fatigue.
Well after multiple targets I usually go back to the regular mp1.


Quote:
Also does going for say 300-400 points per measurement improve on the accuracy instead of the typical 150-200 for each side measurement painting? I am facing a issue where I seem to have a big dip at 1k and 5-7k region on both sides. But if I do a average RTA with pink noise, there is no big dip at that region around my head region. Changing my crossovers and slope which are nowhere near that area does not seem to impact or change that dip which APL workshop is saying exist. At the moment, I am measuring sitting in the driver position and painting starting from the wind screen from up to down and moving slowly back to just before the back of the front seats. No lower then the door windows and carefully avoiding the playing speakers by around 15-20cm.
200 is good enough but of course more won't hurt. You should see if it adds anything on the curve. Less can also work fine, it's already kind of long to do.
For the painting method, same here it's car dependent, but I good results trying to catch the maximum volume. So lower than the door glass, from seat base to the roof, windshield to seats and side glass to side glass (real close). Except few problematic areas like the very corner of my windshield (accute angle with my prominent dash).
For your dips, how big are they? And are they pre or post APL?

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-21-2017   #445
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
It's really car/setup/driving/loudness dependant, and of course personal taste. Mp1 is perfect for my daily drive which is low speed. When I prefer flatter for listening session engine off, and more bass when driving faster.
I have an mp1 version with the dip "filled", but it can cause a bit of ear fatigue.
Well after multiple targets I usually go back to the regular mp1.




200 is good enough but of course more won't hurt. You should see if it adds anything on the curve. Less can also work fine, it's already kind of long to do.
For the painting method, same here it's car dependent, but I good results trying to catch the maximum volume. So lower than the door glass, from seat base to the roof, windshield to seats and side glass to side glass (real close). Except few problematic areas like the very corner of my windshield (accute angle with my prominent dash).
For your dips, how big are they? And are they pre or post APL?

Thanks for your reply. I will listen to MP1 a little longer to see how I like it. For Home audio, I do like the 2-3k dip.

My 1k and 5-k dips are in the region of 10-15DB. They are pre APL. As I do not have the hardware, I am unable to measure post APL to see if APL filters did fix the problem. It does seem to indicate that it can bring up the 5-7k dip almost to the target level and half the 1k dip. Its just very strange that my crossovers are no where near there and does not seem to impact the dip even when I am changing the slope or type. It also happens on both sides almost equally.

I be redoing some new measurements with another TA to see if I can get it better which should not be difficult I hope.
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Old 02-22-2017   #446
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I think I found out why the measurement result looks so poor! I have been doing the paint measurement from the driver seat. I attached 2 files and you will know immediately which was "poor" result was from the driver seat and which was from the passenger seat. Both are from the Left speakers only.

Which brings me to the question, why does it look so different? Please ignore the target curve which I had for the driver seat measurement but did not use for the passenger seat measurement.
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg Passenger Seat.jpg (46.6 KB, 16 views)
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Old 02-22-2017   #447
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

You could upload the FIR filters and measure one more time in order to see how apl worked it out. This re-check is also important for further eq if necessary. You will know what to do and where.

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Old 02-22-2017   #448
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
I think I found out why the measurement result looks so poor! I have been doing the paint measurement from the driver seat. I attached 2 files and you will know immediately which was "poor" result was from the driver seat and which was from the passenger seat. Both are from the Left speakers only.

Which brings me to the question, why does it look so different? Please ignore the target curve which I had for the driver seat measurement but did not use for the passenger seat measurement.
You have very serious installation/tuning/setup error in first one.
Please take the TDA software and check all ways/bands one by one carefully with very high patience.

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Old 02-22-2017   #449
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
You have very serious installation/tuning/setup error in first one.
Please take the TDA software and check all ways/bands one by one carefully with very high patience.
That's the Thing. They are the exact same tune! Just one measured from the passenger seat and the other from the driver seat. Somehow the position of when I am Seating makes such a big difference?
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Old 02-22-2017   #450
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
At the moment, I am measuring sitting in the driver position and painting starting from the wind screen from up to down and moving slowly back to just before the back of the front seats. No lower then the door windows and carefully avoiding the playing speakers by around 15-20cm.
Are your ears at all those places while you're in the car? Just measure at your ears, that all that counts and done.

HU : Pioneer p-80rsII DSP Bit Ten Mid Bass : Polk SR 6500 Tweets : Scan-Speak 3004 Sub : MM 2124 4 Ch Genesis Profile Four Ultra Mono : Genesis DM
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