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Old 06-22-2015   #76
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

^ sorry I missed that.. I would not have asked.

Thank you sir! This has me thinking..

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Old 06-22-2015   #77
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

SO what exactly does the APL unit do ?

Is it just a measurement device or does it provide some form of filtering/manipulation ?



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Old 06-22-2015   #78
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

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Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
SO what exactly does the APL unit do ?

Is it just a measurement device or does it provide some form of filtering/manipulation ?
As i understand, it provides quick Auto EQ (4096 bands of it), and some minor phase correction for a near perfect tune.
Post 11 & 13 seem to explain it best to me.
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Old 06-22-2015   #79
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So no real need to EQ after the unit ?



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Old 06-22-2015   #80
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
So no real need to EQ after the unit ?
If I understand correctly.

Set your crossovers, and time alignment, with your DSP.
Then let the APL1 do the rest.
Then enter your desired eq curve options, up to 16 tunes for the remote control knob.
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Old 06-22-2015   #81
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So, you enter your desired final EQ curve into APL software.... The processor then creates that curve in real time.... ?

Very nice...



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Old 06-23-2015   #82
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

The good question:
Quote:
Why is a FIR based EQ better than others ?

Because you can create any curve you like and can do that instantly.
With ordinary parametric EQ you can only approximate to curve you need. And you may spent hours for that.
FIR also allows create phase/delay curves independently from an amplitude curve.
And FIR has much higher processing quality than ordinary IIR.
You can sum any number of curves (parametrics) and run them in one FIR filter.

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Old 06-25-2015   #83
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Hello,

The brand new APL1s HR unit becomes available. Half rack, 117 dBA, 96 kHz, 0.0003%, 0.12 ms …

Acoustic Power Lab :: APL1s





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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Raimonds,

What is the difference between the APL workshop and TDA EQ?
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Old 06-26-2015   #85
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoysj View Post
Raimonds,

What is the difference between the APL workshop and TDA EQ?
The APL Workshop software is based on Sound Power evaluation and it takes special measures in some „not simple” cases – 1) tweeters have serious directivity issues 2) the complex sub is used and it is introducing very large delay in its band. The solution for first case is published few posts higher. You should use large Time Window – 100 ms, 200 ms (and may be curve editing) for second one.
The APL TDA EQ software is exploiting incredible time resolution of TDA processing and is free from two drawbacks of APL Workshop mentioned. But it is not as stable as Workshop. It was developed as a tool for near field application that is free from very early reflections. The Car environment is opposite. It has very serious early reflections that can ruin the result of TDA EQ work. Therefore it is possible to get very exceptional result by use of TDA EQ in Car environment and it is possible to go into treble. Some examples for a car environment.
1. A pretty nice result. First image – before eq, second – after EQ





2. A nice result also but we can see an excessive phase added on crossover points caused by an improper initial tuning of crossover.






3. A problematic result. Midrange and HF drivers have strong side lobes of directivity (not clear piston motion, surface waves on driver membrane) that are „ caught” by early reflections and than is „amplified” by TDA EQ.




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Old 06-26-2015   #86
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So what's the difference between this and say dirac fir example?

Do they achieve the same result through different means or are there different functions happening here?
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Old 06-26-2015   #87
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

we need (and by this, I mean I need) a price quote and a retail store option, for everything necessary to implement this awesome technology.

I assume I will need a good microphone, calibrated by elves...

then I will need to spring for a software package of at least 3 component parts, at least one of which is not from the same people who sell this processor?

and the new version, I assume, is now more expensive than before?


at 400 Euro, for just the hardware, that's about $600 US?

so a good mic, at the bottom is the ECM-8000, calibrated, will cost at least 150?

then the computer software is near 1000?

and the computer that runs this admirably, would set me back at least 200?

add in the extra software (TDS) that doesn't come with, and we're looking at more money?

just how much, is everything together to move into FIR filter product, without having to buy and learn how to use a Car PC?
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Old 06-26-2015   #88
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Car PC would be stealth, on screen real time results. I've discussed that option with Raimonds but it was some time ago. I just so happen to have a e3io indash Custom PC id let go at a great price if interested.


Im also interested to know exactly what all is needed to run this in Car and would it work on an Ipad?

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Old 06-26-2015   #89
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeppinkdiver View Post
Car PC would be stealth, on screen real time results. I've discussed that option with Raimonds but it was some time ago. I just so happen to have a e3io indash Custom PC id let go at a great price if interested.


Im also interested to know exactly what all is needed to run this in Car and would it work on an Ipad?
I suspect it takes a decent processor to run this.

if the Ipad has the program that allows it to run VST plug-ins, whether Foobar or whatever, then it should be able to run this?

you'd be buying the software suite, which is higher cost but could you improve on the new hardware?


I would imagine that having a Car PC already is the way to go, otherwise buying the hardware makes more sense?
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Old 06-26-2015   #90
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I have the room for a full Ipad so depending on oem integration that is the route Im headed. Ill run the suite if I can per on the Ipad. If it makes more sense to run the hardware and can view results on the Ipad ill do that instead.

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Old 06-26-2015   #91
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

my guess is that the iPad is a full-blown computer, with enough processing Power to run this software but only in 2 channel, or a USB sound card slash, break-out box would be needed to go with 5.1 processing. I believe that you can do everything in Foobar or whatever passes for VST plug-in compatibility with Apple/Mac software, and if not, at the very least, within a shell that runs in Windows architecture?

I don't have any of this stuff down pat, but it makes sense to me to possibly use an external sound card with the iPad and a program that costs a bit of money to use the VST plug-ins.

I imagine it would be easier with a tablet PC that runs Windows 8.1, then you'd have more compatibility and possibly less lag based on how much processor the programs use when in operation...

it would suck to have all the good shit working and when you go to play a video on the in-dash iPad the thing bogs down and goes to buffering every few seconds...
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Old 06-26-2015   #92
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunner View Post
we need (and by this, I mean I need) a price quote and a retail store option, for everything necessary to implement this awesome technology.

I assume I will need a good microphone, calibrated by elves...

then I will need to spring for a software package of at least 3 component parts, at least one of which is not from the same people who sell this processor?

and the new version, I assume, is now more expensive than before?


at 400 Euro, for just the hardware, that's about $600 US?

so a good mic, at the bottom is the ECM-8000, calibrated, will cost at least 150?

then the computer software is near 1000?

and the computer that runs this admirably, would set me back at least 200?

add in the extra software (TDS) that doesn't come with, and we're looking at more money?

just how much, is everything together to move into FIR filter product, without having to buy and learn how to use a Car PC?
The bottom line price would be nice.
I'm a bit doubtful i could find any shops in my area that could/would be able to help with the setup for a reasonable price.


I see you're behind on the current conversion rates also.
Now $400 EUROS is $450 US dollars.
Overseas purchases are looking more attractive lately
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Old 06-26-2015   #93
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fishman View Post
The bottom line price would be nice.
I'm a bit doubtful i could find any shops in my area that could/would be able to help with the setup for a reasonable price.


I see you're behind on the current conversion rates also.
Now $400 EUROS is $450 US dollars.
Overseas purchases are looking more attractive lately
sweet!

now I can call up my Sevruga supplier, Petrossian and get a couple of tins sent out, chop chop..



as for the local shop being able to handle Raimonds and his wunderbar/kind doo wop diddy two stop, not likely...

however, anyone slips into the install bay and has one of these installed and working, will probably garner much attention...

with that display of charts, people will say "is that a waterfall plot? who makes this, I never saw this before, is this really mapping the interior, you say it's an impulse response software, can you really make the left and right phase perfect, together..."


or, maybe not...


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Old 06-26-2015   #94
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Werd caj....I'm with you on all you've said. I'm very curious about this system and how I might apply it to my own car.......but details are few around total cost......and what all is needed to fully implement it and all its functions.......maybe it's language barriers holding us back?
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Old 06-26-2015   #95
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
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Werd caj....I'm with you on all you've said. I'm very curious about this system and how I might apply it to my own car.......but details are few around total cost......and what all is needed to fully implement it and all its functions.......maybe it's language barriers holding us back?
I think that's part of it.

also, I think that the advanced nature of this proprietary device, is hitting a wall of novelty in the thought process.

people don't have access to a system that uses mapping to create a response, because that seems to be new.


the MS-8 does it for it's own software generation, and has sophisticated filters run according to algorithms, but this thing appears to use more of the car's test points than the binaural mics on the headset of the MS-8.

So a lot of what this thing is doing is the full version, and MS-8 seems to be using a lite, version that is low on corrective input from the user.

I believe both use 4096 taps, or is that Audyssey....

I don't know.

So it gets deeper into the corrections than MS-8, or MS-2, for that matter except that it is more like MS-2 in that it's just a 2 channel product.

If you buy the software and have the computer/ sound card, I suspect the opportunity exists to save money and use several '2 channels' together in a split, or crossed-over system?

If the opportunity to rent the software long enough to program a Car to one's liking would be offered, the hardware might sell a lot better.

although with the bunch of tweaker sluts that frequent this place, the software rental would end up being like that library book that you can't seem to return to the library...

always trying out this Speaker or that tweeter, each time needing the software to do it's thing, a pillar or kick, dash pod or sails, nope...


gonna have to bundle that software with the hardware for less than 800 American, US dollars.
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Old 06-26-2015   #96
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So us it like dirac or opendrc??
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Old 06-27-2015   #97
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowintucson View Post
So what's the difference between this and say dirac fir example?

Do they achieve the same result through different means or are there different functions happening here?
Just FIR is not giving you any benefit. It is a powerful DSP tool capable to do anything you like or need. But you must know what you like. And you must know how to supply that to FIR. Everything is about how to prepare FIR filter.

Lot of developers are following a trend of digital room correction. With hope, that the predistortions, introduced by their DRC equalizer, will be neutralized by distortions of the room. But this still remains as hope. Our hearing, developed by millions of years, is capable to separate (localize) the sound source (party effect). And the distortions, introduced into the sound source with hope to correct the room, will remain as distortions. The experience shows that the predistortion-distortion concept (correction, equalizing) works only for the sound source. You must know problems of your sound source (loudspeaker) and than you can create predistortions that will be neutralized by distortions of your loudspeaker. And everything is about how to know (measure) what loudspeaker is doing. The two concepts, that “extract” properties of the loudspeaker, may help – 1) the measurement in Power domain 2) the use of very high time selectivity.

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Old 06-28-2015   #98
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

So you are saying that your unit does the Speaker and not the room.
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Old 06-29-2015   #99
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
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So you are saying that your unit does the Speaker and not the room.
Actually, the unit is doing FIR processing and everything depends what we supply to the unit.
If we supply such curve, we and unit will do "drc".



If we supply the speaker’s curve measured in Power domain, we will do the speaker.


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Old 06-30-2015   #100
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Regarding pricing - you get actually what you pay... SQ costs money. Good sound demands more money. Nothing is free of charge under the sun (except sun rays, of course). For me it was a significant amount of money to be spent (both hard and software), but I never regret this purchase. It was my best investment in caraudio. Before comparing prices for APL1-pack with others on the market, one should find out what the compatitors can. Sorry, but I could not find any compatitor, capable for 4096 filters. My previous experience with up till 31 parametric bands was not successful - a lot hours spent for tuning (mainly - night hours), but result was not good enough for me before I met APL1 option.

Concerning software - I used it not more than 15-20 hours last year (different setups etc). It could be more attractive for potential buyers to have a time limited licence for let say one month or 30 starts, which could be bought cheaper and to keep the full price for installation companies.

Yes, I agree that APL1 is not the cheapest solution. But on the other hand with the APL1 you could save money on loudspeakers (like in my case). It will tune low-cost sets to produce a rich sound you never could expect. Sounds promissing? Yes, but I would not compare this device (do not forget - protected with patents) with ordinary sound processors on the market today. If you need some new smart features like bluetooth, active crossover, wireless remote control, big touch screen - there are some good opportunities today. But if you seek the device that can give you exceptional sound quality in the Car - APL1 is your choice. I hope this explanation can help to understand what kind of device is designed by Raimonds.

Up till now I have not seen any negative review of this unit. I am the first owner of it in Scandinavia (already 2 years) and can only exchange my positive experience. More over - it is rather durable and stable - no issues at all during this period of time.
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