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Old 01-02-2015   #1
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Default Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

IT IS ALIVE!!! I know a few people here have been following my re-build, and I just want to say that it is in and playing. And now, on to the really cool part!

STEREO INTEGRITY TM65 Midbass/midrange. I was fortunate enough to get THE (one and only) prototype set of these drivers for some evaluation. Now that I got the car playing this past weekend, I got these drivers in, and did some very slight tuning tonight. I must say, these things ROCK. I haven't beat on them TOO hard (They are Nick's only prototype set), and I've only done light tuning on them, but the amount of detail and control that these drivers have at lower frequencies is astounding. They are rated at 9mm Xmax, and still have (IIRC) 85% motor strength at over 5.5mm. This is usually only found in very high end drivers, and one main factor of higher end drivers, is still having almost all of the motor force at higher excursions.

I am still evaluating these, as I am just getting them tuned in, but I must say that I am thoroughly impressed. One thing that was my main concern of these drivers, is I was not sure that I would want these in a 2-way setup. Looking at the initial graphs, they looked like they wouldn't have much output above 1k or so. Having a 3 way front and a full processor, I knew that I would be using them solely as a midbass, and this wasn't a deciding factor for me. I have not got to do any RTA measurements with them in car yet, however I muted my midrange, and lowered my tweeter crossover from 7k down to 2k and brought up the TM65's crossover likewise. Much to my surprise, they had absolutely no problem playing up that high. I decided to do some quick listening tests, and playing around with different crossover points, I learned that they would (with no EQ boosting) play up with the tweeter crossing over at 3k with no problem. With the tweeter at 3.5k, it was pushing it, and with the tweeters crossed over at 4k, there was some slight information starting to get lost. I was also using LR crossovers, where the driver is at -6db at the crossover point, instead of the -3db on BW filters, so this could have played a factor as well, but seeing how they would play up to 3k easily, I decided not to test it with BW filters, as most any reputable tweeter can play down to 3 or 3.5k.

I was very hesitant to recommend these in a 2 way front stage setup, however, after listening and testing, I would have no problem whatsoever using these in a 2 way front stage. I will get out the RTA and see exactly what is going on in vehicle soon, however the preliminary listening tests are going very well. So far the only downside I have found, (and is a slight one) is that with large female spade connectors and insulators, they stick out a good bit and make the driver difficult to fit width-wise, as they are slightly larger than the baffle cutout. This won't be an issue for me, as I will solder on my speaker wires, and wont have oversized spade connectors on there. I would even be willing to bet, with the proper size connectors, it probably still won't be an issue, as the only ones I had on hand were the large yellow ones. I can't wait to get my finished production set in and really hammer on these things. But so far, I may have a new favorite 6.5" driver. Ability to play up to 3k cleanly in car, 9mm Xmax in a XBL^2 motor, AND only 2.3" deep. I will post up when I learn more after more testing and more listening.

The set of drivers in the photo is from left to right: SB17NRX - TM65 - Silver Flute 6.5.








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Old 01-02-2015   #2
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

So far, I haven't noticed any distortion that stuck out when I was testing the upper end extension, but I'll be doing some more listening and testing today and this weekend

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Old 01-02-2015   #3
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Thanks for posting your initial review!
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Old 01-03-2015   #4
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Very nice, can't wait to hear these myself.

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Old 01-03-2015   #5
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They are great looking driver - great heft in your hand, I wish I had the chance to listen to them.......just a wee bit too wide OD in my rings or I could had a the fun experience you are having 😊 Enjoy! Thanks for your impressions - especially your comments on their 2-way capability.


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Old 01-03-2015   #6
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Nice review -- I think these will be a big hit for Nick once people see / hear what they are capable of. They are a deal @ the price being offered as well.

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Old 01-03-2015   #7
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

What is the off-axis response like?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy View Post
What is the off-axis response like?

^ That and how would you compare them to the SB mid next to it?

Nice write up!

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Old 01-04-2015   #9
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Ok, first to answer peoples response's.

BayBoy, I have some actual in vehicle response measurements, at the drivers headrest, as off axis as they will likely be, unless you have them playing towards the firewall or something crazy.

Babs - Compared to the SB, I believe the SB has slightly less distortion in the midrange. However, with that being said, the SI definitely has not only more low end output, but more control in the lower frequencies. It should be noted also that these are prototype drivers, one I know being built completely by hand, and not broken in, so that can play a large factor into the midrange clarity for sure, and I will re-test when I have my production drivers in hand, that I have already ordered.

On to the first part of the Objective part of the review, as I promised. Not much to talk about here, as it's hard data in the form of RTA readings. However, HOLY COW. I talked to Nick and he told me to open these things up, and man, what a surprise! As you can see from the graph below, these things have NO problem getting down in car. I actually had to bring the crossover of the TM65's UP, as they had TOO MUCH low end authority (Definitely not a problem, as this was a nice surprise). I had my sub at 50@36, and the TM65's at 60@12. I brought them up to 70@12, and I was still EQ'ing the 40, 50, and 63 eq bands DOWN. I don't know what Nick recommends, but I feel these things have the output to be ran without a sub. Obviously I didn't go playing Royals at full volume with the allpass filter on, as these aren't mine, but man, what a nice surprise!

As far as the midrange dips and peaks go:

PLEASE NOTE!!! The following reading were taken in MY car, with MY install, with MY stock mounting locations (Will provide a pic later if I don't have one on file). The 800hz midrange dip can easily be a product of my car, and the graphs is more to show the upper and lower end limits, again, in my vehicle. YOUR RESULTS WILL VARY vehicle and install depending.



This is where my factory mounting locations are, at the very front bottom of my doors. Again, this is probably about as far off axis as you would find in most cars. Still, you can see from the graph above, that they easily play up past 2k, and a tweeter crossover of 3k would play nicely like this, as shown in my subjective listening tests.



Now, off to bed. Some more tuning and listening done. Let me know what you guys think.

au·dio·phile: Audiophiles’ became one of the most bizarre cults of the previous century. Claiming to be gifted with golden ears, audiophiles can hear electrons traveling in wires, and have the ability to channel thought into crystals to ward off evil harmonics, and cloaking themselves in mystical terms unrelated to music and physics.NEW: Check out my Build Log!
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Old 01-05-2015   #10
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Wow!!! The response down to Fs is ridiculous! The upper end for the axis in your doors is very workable. Makes me ponder why did I even order the NSW2 to pair with it. Making me anxious to receive it. Thanks for the measurement & time!

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Old 01-05-2015   #11
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Damn that low end response is STRONG!

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Old 01-05-2015   #12
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Default Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

I see a serious 3-way contender for the Tacoma if I can squeeze some small mids in stock tweeter spots now I'm over any fears of doing sail panels. Heck I might have to move in a DSP for the extra channels and do a set in both doors. Lots of CLD, CCF, MLV appropriate I think. That's gonna be a fun project. My wife's gonna kill me.

Hmm. Maybe also rear-deck duty and be blasphemous in my Si Sedan even. I shoulda jumped on the pre-sale. I needed a bench power supply though. Darn it.

Nice Subaru Kyle!

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Old 01-05-2015   #13
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy View Post
Wow!!! The response down to Fs is ridiculous! The upper end for the axis in your doors is very workable. Makes me ponder why did I even order the NSW2 to pair with it. Making me anxious to receive it. Thanks for the measurement & time!
No problem! And yeah, the upper and lower end response makes this a great driver for almost any build needing 6.5" drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Architect7 View Post
Damn that low end response is STRONG!
Yeah, that low end is amazing, can't believe I had to raise the crossover and still lower the eq in the bass region. Dang impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babs View Post
I see a serious 3-way contender for the Tacoma if I can squeeze some small mids in stock tweeter spots now I'm over any fears of doing sail panels. Heck I might have to move in a DSP for the extra channels and do a set in both doors. Lots of CLD, CCF, MLV appropriate I think. That's gonna be a fun project. My wife's gonna kill me.

Hmm. Maybe also rear-deck duty and be blasphemous in my Si Sedan even. I shoulda jumped on the pre-sale. I needed a bench power supply though. Darn it.

Nice Subaru Kyle!
Make those sails happen! And yeah, I would definitely button up the doors.

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Old 01-05-2015   #14
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Thanks for posting up the review and your measurements. I've worked a little with the Dyn Esotar 6.5 in the doors of this car (Subaru Legacy) and did not get low frequency response like that on the RTA out of the box from the doors. These look to be really impressive.
I pre-ordered a pair a few months back for the wife's car and these should make an excellent pairing with the Scan mid/tweet I'm installing with these as a dedicated midbass. I'm even more excited to get them in hand and installed now

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Old 01-11-2015   #15
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Great writeup. Interested to see how you continue to like them. I am anxiously awaiting my own to start doing a review. I too was worried as some of my teeter selections that I want to try with them in two way setups would have issues if I ask them to play much below 2800hz. Your results are very promising.

I really didn't want to turn down Nicks offer to use the prototypes but didn't want to hurt them. Now I wish I would have accepted. LOL
Oh well, the production units are not far off now.

What I really like is these will allow me to remove the thick MDF spacer I currently use which will allow my door card to fit better. With the door card slightly touching the MDF spacer if a song has too much kick around 80hz it still vibrates my door locks and handles. LOL

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Old 01-11-2015   #16
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

On production models the small null at/around 500 Hz will be fixed. The production cone and dust cap treatments should help with the upper FR rise at/near 3k. I'll take measurements once I build the first few production units. And Kyle will get a production pair to replace his prototypes.
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Old 01-11-2015   #17
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

When is the preorder over? Been out of the game for a while and going to start getting a few things on the way soon.
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Old 01-12-2015   #18
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyders03 View Post
Ok, first to answer peoples response's.

BayBoy, I have some actual in vehicle response measurements, at the drivers headrest, as off axis as they will likely be, unless you have them playing towards the firewall or something crazy.

Babs - Compared to the SB, I believe the SB has slightly less distortion in the midrange. However, with that being said, the SI definitely has not only more low end output, but more control in the lower frequencies. It should be noted also that these are prototype drivers, one I know being built completely by hand, and not broken in, so that can play a large factor into the midrange clarity for sure, and I will re-test when I have my production drivers in hand, that I have already ordered.

On to the first part of the Objective part of the review, as I promised. Not much to talk about here, as it's hard data in the form of RTA readings. However, HOLY COW. I talked to Nick and he told me to open these things up, and man, what a surprise! As you can see from the graph below, these things have NO problem getting down in car. I actually had to bring the crossover of the TM65's UP, as they had TOO MUCH low end authority (Definitely not a problem, as this was a nice surprise). I had my sub at 50@36, and the TM65's at 60@12. I brought them up to 70@12, and I was still EQ'ing the 40, 50, and 63 eq bands DOWN. I don't know what Nick recommends, but I feel these things have the output to be ran without a sub. Obviously I didn't go playing Royals at full volume with the allpass filter on, as these aren't mine, but man, what a nice surprise!

As far as the midrange dips and peaks go:

PLEASE NOTE!!! The following reading were taken in MY car, with MY install, with MY stock mounting locations (Will provide a pic later if I don't have one on file). The 800hz midrange dip can easily be a product of my car, and the graphs is more to show the upper and lower end limits, again, in my vehicle. YOUR RESULTS WILL VARY vehicle and install depending.



This is where my factory mounting locations are, at the very front bottom of my doors. Again, this is probably about as far off axis as you would find in most cars. Still, you can see from the graph above, that they easily play up past 2k, and a tweeter crossover of 3k would play nicely like this, as shown in my subjective listening tests.



Now, off to bed. Some more tuning and listening done. Let me know what you guys think.
Awesome Kyle. Thanks for posting your FR and your further listening results. After reading your review I called Mark Worrell and we are going to install my pair of TM65's in the door IB, not ported like I had planned. And yes, I'm going to have the subwoofers on a switch so I can turn them on and off. The FR down to 45 Hz is really impressive and very exciting.

JoeHemi, pre-order will last until the parts show up (late this month). As soon as the parts arrive pre-order will be over.
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Old 01-21-2015   #19
 
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

May I ask what amp and wattage you were using in testing this awesome 6 1/2?
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Old 01-22-2015   #20
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

45? Maybe they should be renamed TM:45hz
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Old 03-26-2015   #21
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Quote:
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May I ask what amp and wattage you were using in testing this awesome 6 1/2?
I have a PPI Phantom 600.2 on each one (and each of my other speakers for that matter). Still don't think I could thermal the 6 layer coils he put in these things! They take every bit of the amp and don't complain at all

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Old 03-26-2015   #22
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Quote:
Originally Posted by rxonmymind View Post
45? Maybe they should be renamed TM:45hz
Speaking of the bottom end, I have gotten in my production set of drivers, i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz).

I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil , etc etc).

au·dio·phile: Audiophiles’ became one of the most bizarre cults of the previous century. Claiming to be gifted with golden ears, audiophiles can hear electrons traveling in wires, and have the ability to channel thought into crystals to ward off evil harmonics, and cloaking themselves in mystical terms unrelated to music and physics.NEW: Check out my Build Log!
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Sounds great! Can't wait to hear my pair coming. What were you crossover points on 6.5" and tweeters? Trying to figure out what tweeter to match up with this beast.
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Old 03-26-2015   #24
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

So am I reading the graph right? In your particular car/system, you could arguably go to 2.5K then have a tweeter take up the rest in a 2-way, assuming one has a tweeter that would cope starting its duties at 2.5K?

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Old 03-27-2015   #25
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Default Re: Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results

Damn I might have to get a pair of these little beasts to play around with. And since I liked my encounter with the original Mag v3 one of the new ones might be nice to fill the bottom end. Nick, I applaud the direction you've gone for us diy people. The tm65 looks like it would be "the right tool for the job".

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