SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 02-25-2015   #1
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Default SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

I bought these to use in my car as midranges from 300-2khz. As you can see, there is about a 5dB bump in response beginning at about 1.5khz, I assume caused by the dust cap. To that, the Scan Speak 15m exhibits the same bump a bit earlier in frequency. You can see their spec sheet here. Heck the Scan 15w looks nearly the same in this regard as shown here. While the FR isn't ruler flat, the bump in response in my measurements occurs where beaming begins, so this may alleviate that issue by low-passing the mid before this point.

The 8khz (likely modal) bump is about 10dB higher than the response at 2khz. At 4khz there is approximately a 10dB delta between 0 and 60 degrees response. The HD looks VERY good. Even at 102dB @ 1/2m equivalent the THD above 150hz is less than 0.30%. The separation between 2nd and 3rd order distortion at this output has about a 15dB delta above 300hz which is very nice.

Overall not quite stellar FR, but given the likely crossover point here around the 2khz region, the issues beyond this point aren't of huge concern. The THD is very nice. Overall, I think this is a really good midwoofer (even better used as a midrange).

Subjectively I can say that I've been using these in my car for the past couple weeks and have been VERY impressed with them. I actually prefer them over the Scan 12m, and the Scan 15m/15w ... but I'm basing these impressions on aural memory which isn't great, so take that for what it's worth.

As an aside... these things are just plain gorgeous!


here's a link to the test results:
http://medleysmusings.com/mw13p-4/


Here's a picture:





PS: If you would like to help me keep up funds for testing, there's a little 'contribute' button that goes through Paypal all the way at the bottom of every page. Any little bit helps.. heck, $3 buys me painter's tape to help seal any small gaps in the baffle/blank interface.

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Old 02-25-2015   #2
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Very nice looking speaker. Thanks for your review
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Old 02-25-2015   #3
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Wow really flat under 1kHz but so strange at 1,5kHz!
But it seems less dramatic on the distortion graph.
Thx!
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Old 02-25-2015   #4
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Wow really flat under 1kHz but so strange at 1,5kHz!
Thx!
check my first paragraph in the OP.

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Old 02-25-2015   #5
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Really like the look of those Satori drivers. Nice open basket. Looks to be a stellar performer too, to go along with its looks.
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Old 02-25-2015   #6
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
check my first paragraph in the OP.
Yep, I read too fast!
I just tried this, is it normal that higher spl increases all "waves"? Or is it just an artefact of microphone/smoothing etc?
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Old 02-25-2015   #7
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

it's measurement methods. in the nearfield (which is done to mitigate any room influences and achieve a very long 'window' of measurement to measure distortion) there is a high frequency cutoff where the soundwaves are not given enough time to be represented accurately. thats when you have to move to the far-field (ie; 1/2m, 1m, 2m, etc). this NF high frequency cutoff point is determined by driver diameter. for this driver, that cutoff is about 2.5khz or so, IIRC. so that basically means the waveform accuracy of the response above this frequency should be evaluated in the far field. but for distortion, it's still OK because you're only comparing the original fundamental vs the distortion artifacts; measuring further away doesn't alter the result (I did a thread on this yeeaaaars back).

You can read more info about NF/FF (nearfield/farfield) measurements here:
http://www.artalabs.hr/AppNotes/AP4_...d-Rev03eng.pdf



IOW, don't try to match up the HD fundamental to the FF response because the measurement methods are different and that results in different response attributes. A good tester will know this. So be careful of test results you see. I've seen a couple people measure drivers in the nearfield and post that up as frequency response... their results are wrong.

*note: nearfield is typically within inches of the driver, while farfield is feet. the above linked pdf provides measurements that specify, but that's just a general point that may help you better understand what I mean.

Hope that helps,
Erin

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Old 02-25-2015   #8
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

FWIW, a friend asked me how to determine % distortion from relative level. Use this site:
THD to dB - convert percent % to decibels dB percentage voltage % vs per cent converter THD+N total harmonic distortions calculation signal distortion factor attenuation in dB to distortion factor k in percent decibel damping - sengpielaudio Sengpiel

For example, let's look at the following results at 102dB/1m equivalent:



Let's look at 1khz. At this frequency the fundamental is at approximately 114dB. The THD (blue) is at approximately 64dB. The difference between these two values is 50dB.
Punch (-50)dB in to the link and hit the "calculate" button and below it you'll get "0.3162278" %. That value is the distortion relative to the fundamental.

BTW, 0.32% THD is VERY low for a driver playing at 102dB/1m (102dB spl at 1 meter away).


Some common numbers worth memorizing are:
-30dB down from the fundamental = 3%
-40dB down from the fundamental = 1%

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Old 02-25-2015   #9
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Very interesting, some more readings in my todo list!
I also have to re-read the explanations on your blog.

Just quickly before, so you always have to merge NF and FF measured curves yourself to get a full view?
Is this why many curve responses around are a bit smoother on high frequencies?

Also, the difference between both curves is only about 2/3db variation.
So we can say this is caused by one feet only?
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Old 02-25-2015   #10
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

don't compare the HD fundamental with the Frequency Response.

the difference will be the high frequency accuracy. above the NF high frequency cutoff, the response will look different than if it were measured in the FF. the PDF should explain the details better than I can off the top of my head.

for FR, unless you have an anechoic chamber you are pretty much forced to merge NF/FF together. the point at which you do this will depend on both the NF high frequency cutoff and the point of first reflection in the farfield. the latter is typically 3ms for most people because this is where floor bounce occurs for most DIY'r type measurement setups.

I went through the trouble of building a HUGE baffle (10ft x 8ft) and treating a room so I could get the first reflection out to 10ms. in the end, it didn't really matter because the NF/FF merge took care of the issues I would otherwise have had to 'gate' out.


read through the PDF, though. it really does a great job of providing an intro into measuring speakers (which is TOTALLY different than just RTA'ing a system).

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Old 02-25-2015   #11
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

When are you getting the tweeters?
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Old 02-25-2015   #12
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
...
read through the PDF, though. it really does a great job of providing an intro into measuring speakers (which is TOTALLY different than just RTA'ing a system).
Will do! thx again
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Old 02-25-2015   #13
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
When are you getting the tweeters?
according to UPS tracking, next Monday. (I assume you're talking about the Gladen 20mm)

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Old 02-25-2015   #14
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Erin, thanks for posting up these tests and for your insights as well. Your a machine!

Question...Did you flush-mount this driver in your test baffle for your measurements?
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Old 02-25-2015   #15
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

The Satori tweeters silly.
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Old 02-25-2015   #16
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Nope. I typically don't flush mount mids/woofers.

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Old 02-26-2015   #17
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Default

Interesting driver! Nonlinear performance looks superb for this size.

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Old 03-12-2015   #18
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

I'm trying to work with Madisound on doing group buys after I test a product. I started a GB on the scan tweeters with them and the feedback on their end was positive so I'm going to try to keep this kind of thing going when I can. So, I was going to see if there's any interest here on me running a GB for this Satori MW13p-4. If I can get a minimum order of 10 pair, I can get the price down to $245/pair shipped CONUS. At regular price a set would run about $325 shipped. So it'd be a savings of about $80/pair!

I'll get them in and do some impedance tests on them before shipping them out.

Any interest at all? If so, I'll make a "formal" post.

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Old 03-12-2015   #19
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

I'm in. I missed out on the Scan Tweeter GB...but I already had two pairs so no need to hoard, haha. But I don't have these Satori's yet. Bring it.
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Old 03-13-2015   #20
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Okay. I'll post up on TT, too.

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Old 04-25-2015   #21
 
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

What do you use to cross them over?
What frequency and slope?
Where do you have them placed?
where are you placing the tweeter?

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Old 04-26-2015   #22
 
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

gb interest
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Old 08-04-2015   #23
 
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
I'm trying to work with Madisound on doing group buys after I test a product. I started a GB on the scan tweeters with them and the feedback on their end was positive so I'm going to try to keep this kind of thing going when I can. So, I was going to see if there's any interest here on me running a GB for this Satori MW13p-4. If I can get a minimum order of 10 pair, I can get the price down to $245/pair shipped CONUS. At regular price a set would run about $325 shipped. So it'd be a savings of about $80/pair!

I'll get them in and do some impedance tests on them before shipping them out.

Any interest at all? If so, I'll make a "formal" post.
Hello. I'm relatively new to this forum, but I've been looking at these Satori's for a while and would love the opportunity to participate in a group buy if it happens. What's the best way to get in on this?
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Old 05-27-2016   #24
 
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

My friend told me that this Satori hold its ground against Scanspeak. Slightly clearer midrange compared to Scanspeak.
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Old 05-29-2016   #25
 
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Default Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Sb acoustics is also releasing new satori midranges i believe one of the model number are mr13p

The model tested here is mw13p, which i believe was more 'marketed' as a midwoofer still i got the 7 inch satori at home and the cone itself are among my favourites for vocal midrange duties all and all

Alot of life and still retains details my prefered compromise
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