Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable - Page 2 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 08-02-2015   #26
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

the general color of the wire even with tinning, might not be that bright though.

I know that once you alloy copper, it begins losing it's conductivity and when you bring it to brass or bronze, it's down quite a bit.

I don't know if it's feasible to make wire out of alloy that costs less, by adding zinc or lead or some other silvery looking metal to copper, based on how much all those added metals cost.

I believe it's possible to source out cheaper wire in Chinese factories, where you don't know how pure the copper is and if someone like KnuConcepts, were to take advantage of that fact, and nobody ever assays the copper in the wire they are selling, they could be making up the short end price-wise, by using less than pure copper.

Generally, car audio might not be an authority, there is probably no CEA-2006 spec that regulates wire and the metal content found in it, so if the wire appears brighter than pure copper, it might be just that.

I know copper does tarnish and it's usually quite bright, and not all that red, or pink for that matter.

But when you cut into a tinned copper wire that claims "OFC" then it shouldn't have tinning at all, it should be pure in my opinion.

after all, OFC just stands for Oxygen Free Copper, which doesn't really mean Oxidation free either.

and Copper doesn't rust, it corrodes and tin is more inert, not going to corrode in normal atmosphere.

After seeing copper wire turn green inside it's clear plastic jacket, I think tinned copper is better for any purpose, not just marine environments.
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Old 08-02-2015   #27
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

The brighter silver tone may be a different material used, not tin plated but nickel plated.

Some of the car power wires use nickel instead of tin, I believe streetwires is one of them

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Old 08-02-2015   #28
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Cajunner, it is true that I have no real idea, other then what KK claims, what copper alloy (if any) is actually in the wire they make. That being said, them many times that I have cut tinned OFC with regular wire cutters, the tinning being soft, is often squished/pulled over the ends of the cut wire, making it appear silver instead of copper colored.
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Old 08-02-2015   #29
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

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Old 08-02-2015   #30
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

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Originally Posted by gstokes View Post
Without oxygen there is no oxidation so how does Oxygen Free Copper corrode if it's oxygen free ??

Good question huh, you can forward to that to Knu Koncepts and send my regards, perhaps they can backpedal away from their marketing hype long enough to offer you a logical explanation on why their oxygen free cable is oxidizing..
hey now...

don't take this the wrong way, man.

but OFC copper just means that they reduced the amount of oxygen in the copper through a process of purifying it, it's still 100% copper but the alloy designation is that it is a more refined product.

they aren't claiming corrosion resistance from the process.

OFC copper is a higher electrical grade, it's purpose is to make a better conductor of electricity. Some solid copper items don't need this refinement, like copper cookware or roofing products.

The difference between 101 copper and 110 copper, isn't all that much but there are some specialized applications where it makes sense.


In a car audio cable, using pure copper, is all that really matters and paying extra for the OFC cable is actually a marketing thing, for at least a couple reasons. One, the manufacturer can use pure copper but not OFC grade, and you and I won't ever be able to tell the difference. Two, the supposed bump in quality that allows the manufacturer to charge more for essentially the same product, means that we are paying for profits to the manufacturer, more than we are getting in better wire. Unless of course, the copper that the Chinese plant uses is so inferior in quality that upgrading to an OFC specification, increases the quality of the wire to a measurable extent.

And don't you want to believe that OFC grade wire is better? And don't you want it in your car if you have the chance to get OFC wire for the same price as "plain" copper?

I would, since I'm vain and all, but also because the chances of that wire being better than the normal Chinese factory output based on manufacturer claims, might indicate that is where pure copper is being used and not some inferior alloy that dilutes the copper base with alloy ingredients that are cheaper and make the wire less conductive.
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Old 08-03-2015   #31
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

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Old 08-03-2015   #32
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

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Correct. I forget about that. I shouldn't be looking at forums when I should be sleeping.


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Old 09-10-2015   #33
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

I just wanted to add it might have been me that was pushing the "wireandsupply" place but that's only because I learned it here long ago. That said, I found something better. I placed a big (for me) order of 75ft each of 1/0, 4, and 6 gauge from another company online, that sells Radaflex. This stuff is much more flexible than Royal Excelene, and it comes from using higher gauge copper and much more of it. This stuff has now become my absolute number one go-to. It is amazing. Cableyard was the place, now that I remember.

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Old 03-09-2016   #34
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Amazing comparison. I took this picture today. AAA battery is exactly the same size OD as standard quality 4 gauge car audio power wire. Pictures are deceiving

And the black 1/0 wire on the first post is also identical in OD as a AA battery


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Old 05-10-2016   #35
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrojoca View Post
Amazing comparison. I took this picture today. AAA battery is exactly the same size OD as standard quality 4 gauge car audio power wire. Pictures are deceiving

And the black 1/0 wire on the first post is also identical in OD as a AA battery


There's something to be said about the difference between AWG and "gauge"

It's kind of like comparing "horsepower" to "horseys".

One is a legally protected term, with regulations, standardization, etc.

The other is marketing, having no actual standard.

I'll take AWG wire, thanks.

I actually just got a "sample" order of royal excellene. I like it.

The real surprise is that my cat seems to prefer the Royal Excellene over catnip. I'm not sure if I should be happy or worried about that.

Fun fact: The loudest posible undistorted SPL is ~ 194 dB.
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Old 05-10-2016   #36
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

I got a welding wire called Toughflex, very similarto excellene, smaller OD
And I use this Chart to verify the conductors are accurate for the proper gauge.

Knu wire may be better but it's oversize, the zero gauge is more like 2/0, bigger an harder to fit in some areas
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Old 05-10-2016   #37
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

It would be interesting to cut identical lengths of each sample, pull off the jacket and weigh the strands. I've always used welding wire. Some of it has been in vehicles for 10 years + with no issues.
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Old 05-11-2016   #38
 
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Default Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
It would be interesting to cut identical lengths of each sample, pull off the jacket and weigh the strands. I've always used welding wire. Some of it has been in vehicles for 10 years + with no issues.


There are videos of that on YouTube.
Short version: car audio cable has a lot of air in it. (As was said earlier in the thread - it's "fluffy"). Welding cable has more copper, which means less resistance, and more current capacity.

So while the car audio stuff is physically larger, it has the same (and often less) copper inside. It's more flexible, and looks bigger, so people think it's worth paying more.

The whole reason many car audio wire you see calls itself 1/0 gauge instead of 1/0 AWG is because it doesn't meet the standard to have AWG stamped on it. (The diameter, copper content, and current capacity of AWG wire is strictly regulated; you get none of those guarantees by using wire marketed as 1/0 gauge.)

As far as having tinned copper (vs plain copper) - it's a mixed bag. You might get better corrosion resistance with tinned wire, but you will also get tin whiskers that can grow through and pierce the insulation; potentially causing a plasma arc that might start a fire before the fuse blows. Pure copper will conduct better than tinned.

Oddly enough, one of the virtues of aluminum wire is that it still one of the best electrical conductors (though not quite as good as copper, silver, or gold), but is far more resistant to corrosion than copper or silver. Gold isn't used for wire for obvious reasons- copper is better & far cheaper)

Fun fact: The loudest posible undistorted SPL is ~ 194 dB.

Last edited by Pariah Zero; 05-11-2016 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 05-12-2016   #39
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Interesting, I thought the car wire was actually bigger in OD and conductor diameter.

I have always been a fan of less strands, less mess and easier to work with. It makes sense the more strands, the more separation between them and the bigger it may appear to be.

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Default Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrojoca View Post
Interesting, I thought the car wire was actually bigger in OD and conductor diameter.



I have always been a fan of less strands, less mess and easier to work with. It makes sense the more strands, the more separation between them and the bigger it may appear to be.

Car wire *is* bigger in OD and conductor diameter. Diameter itself means nothing if it isn't filled with solid metal.

Fluffy air-filled gaps take up space, and car audio wire has much thicker insulation - insulation is cheap and looks bigger.

Neither air nor insulation carry current, but it's great for marketing to the crowd that looks only at the diameter of the insulated wire.

Which is why actual AWG wire can do a better job and be thinner as well. The copper is much more dense, and it's the copper (not air) that carries the current.

The whole reason AWG wire has tight standards and is regulated is so Engineers know exactly what they are getting, because people's lives may depend on it.

Fun fact: The loudest posible undistorted SPL is ~ 194 dB.

Last edited by Pariah Zero; 05-12-2016 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 05-12-2016   #41
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Maybe Knu is the only car wire with accurate or equivalent AWG since all their wires are like 15-20% bigger On both conductor and insulation although they have 2/3 if not more strands the welding wire.

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Old 05-12-2016   #42
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Another I would have liked in this discussion.. I've been rather pleased with JSC wire from PE.. Has served me very well without much corrosion at all.

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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Still voting for Radaflex as the best cable I've used, the stuff just does its job so well. I can get some comparison shots if you want/need but trust me, this is the best welding cable (and thus some of the best wire) available, at least that I've found.

Cableyard still sells it for a good price, especially in bulk. I still have about 1/3 my inventory, but it is getting used up quick!

I upgraded most of the vital wiring on this C5 Vette I've been doing. Here's a shot of their sad ground wire from battery to frame, vs. my Radaflex 1/0 AWG



This is 4 AWG vs. the piddly stuff GM used to run from the battery to the main fuse/relay box nearby.


What I really like is the dual sheathing. That internal sheath is really slick so when you bend this stuff, it accepts a fairly tight bend and holds it fairly well by slipping the external insulator against the inner, near as I can tell. I like how this copper is much finer gauge inside, but there's a ton of it so the cross section is right on point but you're not fighting that sensation of wiring solid-core shit. You know, where you're bleeding from needle pokes of copper, or where you can't twist the wire down into its proper receptacle.

They have a 6 AWG wire which I use in place of 8 gauge, and that is some nice simple stuff too.

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Old 05-12-2016   #44
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
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What I really like is the dual sheathing. That internal sheath is really slick so when you bend this stuff, it accepts a fairly tight bend and holds it fairly well by slipping the external insulator against the inner, near as I can tell.
I like double sheathing too. The internal sheath is probably PFTE (Teflon), as it's a great insulator and can tolerate a lot of heat without melting.

Quote:
...but you're not fighting that sensation of wiring solid-core shit. You know, where you're bleeding from needle pokes of copper, or where you can't twist the wire down into its proper receptacle.
I somehow doubt you've run 4 gauge solid copper, or else you'd never compare welding cable to solid. Welding cable is very flexible by design. Sure, you won't tie it into tight knots, but you should respect the bend radius of the cable in any install.

The National Electrical Code (in the US) defines minimum wire bending radius for all wire. If you bend the cables tighter than the bending radius, then you're risking the long term safety and reliability of the cable.

Fun fact: The loudest posible undistorted SPL is ~ 194 dB.
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