Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 02-25-2015   #1
 
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Default Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

I saw someone on here recommend getting heavy gauge cable from WireAndSupply, sorry I can't remember who.

Well I ordered some 1/0 and 4awg, was going to get some 8awg but I could not find any on their website, probably too small for welding applications. The smallest they sell seems to be 6awg which would probably be similar in comparison with other 8ga. Since I have all this stuff here I thought I'd take some comparison pics and throw them up...

First off Knu Kolossus 1/0 vs. WireAndSupply Royal Excelene 1/0...
Knu looks a lot bigger from the outside, the actual difference in the amount of copper looks to be negligible. If you are going to really be using it for all it's worth I would stick with the Knu but if you have some headroom the cheap stuff looks fine. Although, if you are worried about this being enough maybe you better just step up to the Wire and Supply 2/0 which is still cheaper than the Knu 1/0. Knu is noticeably more workable but the Excelene will do fine and since the jacket is thinner it will be easier to get into smaller spaces. The biggest and best difference by far is Knu = $3.95/ft vs Excelene = $1.85/ft!





The differences in sizes are fairly consistent so here are the rest...

Knu Kolossus 4ga @ $1.55/ft VS. WireAndSupply 4awg @ $0.90/ft





And just so you can see the difference here is Knu 8ga VS WireAndSupply 4awg...





And here is everything together...


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Old 02-26-2015   #2
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

I'm generally skeptical about "premium" wire products. Especially in power supply cables. I could see the added flexibility of the Kolossus as an advantage in tight installations, but IME (battery relocation for weight distribution purposes) welding cable is pretty flexible to start with.

Too many hobsessions, too little time.
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Old 02-26-2015   #3
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Thanks for the comparison. From the pics, the Kolossus doesn't appear to be pure copper like the Excelene. Maybe Kolossus is copper clad steel?

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Old 02-26-2015   #4
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstop View Post
Thanks for the comparison. From the pics, the Kolossus doesn't appear to be pure copper like the Excelene. Maybe Kolossus is copper clad steel?
Yeah it looks weird in some of the pics but it's copper. From their site...

Quote:
Originally Posted by knukonceptz.com
Kolossus Fleks Kable 1/0 Red Power Wire features 5145 Tinned Strands of Pure Oxygen Free Copper and a new Ultra Fleks Matte PVC Jacket.

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Old 02-26-2015   #5
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstop View Post
Thanks for the comparison. From the pics, the Kolossus doesn't appear to be pure copper like the Excelene. Maybe Kolossus is copper clad steel?
The Kolossus is tinned pure OFC. The tinning is added to the outside of each strand to prevent oxidation of the copper, but it is, for all intents and purposes, still pure oxygen free copper wire.

You can find lots of resources on the net comparing the differences of non-tinned and tinned OFC. For the most part, if i am wiring my boat, tinned is required, otherwise, I will use whatever is available in my garage at the time.
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Old 02-26-2015   #6
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Car audio cable is generally oversized. Welding cable is based on strict regulations on sizing, jacket, and current capabilities. Welding cable is true American wire gauge (awg). General consensus is if you want equal to car audio 1/0, get welding 2/0 for half the price. I've seen 2/0 pure ofc copper for under $2ft. You won't find Knu ofc under $3.75ft. But knu is great stuff. Welding cable has stronger jackets though. Chemical, heat, and environmental resistant.
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Old 02-26-2015   #7
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by nineball76 View Post
Car audio cable is generally oversized. Welding cable is based on strict regulations on sizing, jacket, and current capabilities. Welding cable is true American wire gauge (awg). General consensus is if you want equal to car audio 1/0, get welding 2/0 for half the price. I've seen 2/0 pure ofc copper for under $2ft. You won't find Knu ofc under $3.75ft. But knu is great stuff. Welding cable has stronger jackets though. Chemical, heat, and environmental resistant.
Good info, I might have bought 2/0 if I had know that before. I did notice that the welding cable all used the "awg" term while car audio usually just says "gauge".

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Old 06-16-2015   #8
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krank View Post
The Kolossus is tinned pure OFC. The tinning is added to the outside of each strand to prevent oxidation of the copper, but it is, for all intents and purposes, still pure oxygen free copper wire.
Without oxygen there is no oxidation so how does Oxygen Free Copper corrode if it's oxygen free ??

Good question huh, you can forward to that to Knu Koncepts and send my regards, perhaps they can backpedal away from their marketing hype long enough to offer you a logical explanation on why their oxygen free cable is oxidizing..

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Old 06-16-2015   #9
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstokes View Post
Without oxygen there is no oxidation so how does Oxygen Free Copper corrode if it's oxygen free ??

Good question huh, you can forward to that to Knu Koncepts and send my regards, perhaps they can backpedal away from their marketing hype long enough to offer you a logical explanation on why their oxygen free cable is oxidizing..
It's not that great of a question.... the oxidation doesn't start from the middle and work it's way out, it starts at the ends where the wire is exposed, unprotected if you fail to properly crimp or solder (whole nother argument right there), then correctly heat shrink.
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Old 06-16-2015   #10
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

It could have been cut and sitting around?

Also without calipers how do you visually do this test when you have the thickness of the coating in the measurement?

If you take calipers to it in a tight stretched fixed sides, stripped of the coating, you can make measurements.

In this pic Kolosus looks thinker...
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Old 06-20-2015   #11
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by toylocost View Post
Good info, I might have bought 2/0 if I had know that before. I did notice that the welding cable all used the "awg" term while car audio usually just says "gauge".
While not the least expensive, JL Audio and Stinger are AWG.
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Old 06-20-2015   #12
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

at the risk of sounding pedantic, wire gauge differences between most welding wire will be negligible.

wire gauge differences between car audio cables, will vary.

the point where people can see what they are paying good money for, is here in this thread.

2/0 is very large. It's a lot of copper, it's usually not found in the car audio, (yes, I know a few carry it, but on the whole 1/0 is where most lines max out) so you're dealing with a welding application which means the durability of the jacket makes it less pretty, the copper is all "there" with assurances as to how heavy (read: consistent) the wire inside is, based on industry standards that mean one cable over a 100 ft. run shouldn't suck out 20 amps more on one company than another, it's a stringency thing.

car audio? The truth of the wind, is that you can place a lot of fluffy copper inside a jacket and it'll bend to the bejesus, but weight is where it's at. Copper weighs an exact amount, and Pure Copper, and OFC Copper, are basically the same thing.

car audio cables that purport extra flexibility, actually can contain less mass, less density, less current carrying capacity.

so just looking at a wire from the end, is not the way to judge copper.

it's "alright" if that sort of thing works well enough for you, but it's not right if the performance of a cable is in question.

The more copper there is in a wire, the heavier that wire gets, and the only way to get the actual AWG standard in a super flexible car audio wire, is to over stuff it, or make it a little bigger.

The use of strand counts are a great way to separate the chaff from the wheat. But you have to expect that at <30 AWG each strand, the variance can be a lot. As that can also be fudged to look like a superior wire is in play. It's funny all the way around to go so technical on copper because if the wire is at least 4 gauge, it'll usually run well in applications that call for 1/0, in car audio charts for amplification.

Now, if they are selling you fluffy 4 gauge, it's possible to have 6 gauge or less amount of actual wire in the cable, which is another argument.

Just remember that if the cable is fluffy and big, it probably will do the work as long as it's copper, and not some variant of CCA that car audio is marketing deceptively.

And if it's welding cable and you got it for half the price, and you can still bend it into your distro block without serious strain on the jacket, you are a WINNER!


a winner. How often do you get to say that...
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Old 07-07-2015   #13
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Knu looks like it has more copper Than the welding wire, and that does not mean that the welding wire is not true gauge. What happens is that Knu wires have about 10-12% ( just a guess) more strands, years ago they marketed the extra copper, now for some reason they don't.
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Old 07-07-2015   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrojoca View Post
Knu looks like it has more copper Than the welding wire, and that does not mean that the welding wire is not true gauge. What happens is that Knu wires have about 10-12% ( just a guess) more strands, years ago they marketed the extra copper, now for some reason they don't.

P

Read my first comment? Knu isn't true awg and isn't held to the strict regs that welding cable is. Car audio cables are generally oversized to try to put them ahead of the next car audio cable maker. Knu 1/0= welding 2/0, but for twice the cost.
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Old 07-07-2015   #15
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And Knu 1/0 has what, 5000+ strands of 36awg, welding 2/0 is 1200+ of 30awg.
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Old 07-07-2015   #16
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by nineball76 View Post
Read my first comment? Knu isn't true awg and isn't held to the strict regs that welding cable is. Car audio cables are generally oversized to try to put them ahead of the next car audio cable maker. Knu 1/0= welding 2/0, but for twice the cost.

Not sure I buy the " car audio cables are generally oversized"

Knu is larger compared to any wire including car audio wire like TSP, streetwires, stinger, and very noticeably.

Will a regular stinger, TSP )tsunami) look larger than welding cable?

I doubt it, and if it is, it will be hard to tell. That is what I was trying to say, unless some specs and measurements can verify it. And sometimes more thinner strands may look bigger than less thicker strands.

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Old 07-07-2015   #17
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Not my picture but a simple googled returned:

From left to right: Metra 1/0, Stinger 1/0, Knu Kolossus 1/0, 2/0 Trystar Welding Wire, 2/0 Welding Wire.
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Old 07-07-2015   #18
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

looks like the Trystar uses more copper in the strand, unless someone managed to tint metals a darker more copper color. The KnuKolossus looks too bright...maybe its silver/Not! They are not using a full copper strand.

Stinger looks good too. Metra looks bad.

It looks like the order of good to less than is...
1-Trystar
2-Welding Wire
3-Stinger
4-KnuK

Last edited by Phil Indeblanc; 07-07-2015 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 08-01-2015   #19
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Thought you guys might appreciate this thread I came across on another forum a while ago, it seems to be a fairly comprehensive analysis of wire

Wire Comparison

including caliper measurements and weights, KNU did well
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Old 08-02-2015   #20
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
looks like the Trystar uses more copper in the strand, unless someone managed to tint metals a darker more copper color. The KnuKolossus looks too bright...maybe its silver/Not! They are not using a full copper strand.

Stinger looks good too. Metra looks bad.

It looks like the order of good to less than is...
1-Trystar
2-Welding Wire
3-Stinger
4-KnuK

The Knu is silver tinned ofc. The only reason Trystar looks better is that insane jacket. The Knu and welding cable look identical size. Which it pretty much is. Mentioned it before, car audio cable is over sized, welding cable has regulations to follow and adhere to. Save your money, welding cable is half the cost and just as good.
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Old 08-02-2015   #21
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

I tend to judge wiring kits by weight. If the weight isn't there, I stay away.

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Old 08-02-2015   #22
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Good "Car Audio" 1/0 is generally accepted to be closer to 2/0 AWG. That's just how it is.

2/0 is really only minimally more capable than 1/0 anyway (~ 20A). I think some are under the assumption it's twice the ampacity. But whatever.

I use welding cable almost exclusively and have for years. It's made in the USA and I know what I'm getting. And bonus... it's cheaper and available locally. Win-win.
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Old 08-02-2015   #23
 
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Here's a few different brands and sizes.



In case you're wondering... the big shit is Sky High "2/0" next to legit 4/0 structural grounding cable.

There's a couple 1/0 and 2/0 welding in there too.
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Old 08-02-2015   #24
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

the weight of the wire is as important as strand count, and strand count between say, 29 gauge to 36 gauge, is a lot more important than a few numbers apart.

the reason you see the "big" car audio cables have trouble maintaining their winding dimension after being cut, is because they are fluffy!

fluffy.

fluffy makes it possible to bend the cable easily, fluffy makes it look like the business, fluffy is the way they market car audio cables.

because car audio cables are really a tangential market, they don't have to produce specs that count because car audio is a subjective business.

if it looks good and a car audio brand is legit enough to put their labels on it, then it's probably going to be high enough in quality to do the job. Brand wire like JL and Audison, even Rockford Fosgate, all make quality wire that can be compared to each other.

Brands like DB Link, or Raptor, Scosche, Metra, Stinger, even Streetwires, can vary based on the brand's lines, and some of them are cheaply made to fit a price point.

you can't magically create a copper wire that is built with the same mass as a true welding AWG spec, put it in a fancy clear jacket and build it with a lot of flex in the winding, without it being bigger than the stuff you get at the welding supply.

And some people who techflex their stuff anyway, could purpose their savings on the welding wire, to pay for the techflex. A win-win.

Supporting Knu is great and all, and they do appear to put a little more money in your pocket over the higher end brands, but it's still too high a price for what you get over welding wire.
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Old 08-02-2015   #25
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Default Re: Comparison: Knu Kolossus VS. WireAndSupply Excelene Welding Cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
The KnuKolossus looks too bright...maybe its silver/Not! They are not using a full copper strand.
The KK is tinned copper. The tinning helps prevent corrosion and oxidation in moist environments and does not effect the conductivity in any negative way.
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