CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2016   #1
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,787

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 114 TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to all


iTrader: (1)



Default CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

So, as everyone knows, I had to stop testing for the time being. I also had to sell the speakers used in the test rig. I knew I couldn't possibly finish all the brand comparison's in time, but I still wanted to test a few last things. Being that it would not be fair for me to pick and choose which brands to test, I instead testing install methods. 25% vs 100%, stacked double layers vs opposed side double layers, multiple small pieces vs one large piece. I needed to use a product that I still had enough of to do multiple tests, the only product with enough material for that was SDS Tiles and SDS Sheet. I know, SDS Sheet was not included in the product comparison test, but I had no other material in quantities large enough to use for the purpose of this testing.

Just to clear the air, I was extremely stressed out on the day I did this, so I screwed up on this run of testing, and closed out REW without saving the files. Therefore, I only have the individual frequency response plots and waterfall plots saved. Rton20s helped me out by overlaying the plots so the comparisons are easier, although the plot names are jumbled. That is entirely my fault. The other thing you'll notice is I tested at a much higher level. Aside from that, all testing was done as normal, at 77 degrees, with all noise sources as quiet as possible. Never realized how long my fridge runs for until I had to wait for it to stop.


Lets start with 25% vs 100%. I tested this with SDS CLD Sheet. It is advertised as a corrosion preventative treatment for camper vans, and is recommended to be used at 100% coverage. It is the same butyl as CLD Tiles, but thinner with a thinner constraining layer.

Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2db
28% Damped Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 103.0db




Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2
100% Damped Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 98.0db




So there is a 11.2db drop in peak amplitude with 28% coverage. There is a 16.2db drop with 100% coverage. So, to treat 1 square foot, you would spend $0.85 for the first 11.2db, and $2.20 for an additional 5db.



As an aside, I would now put CLD Sheets just above Dynamat Xtreme for those wanting the lightest weight effective damper out there. I know this isn't a direct comparison, however, the performance is as good, and it is lighter.



Moving on. SDS Tiles, 28% vs 56%. This test used a single 28% coverage piece vs two 28% pieces double layered on each other.

Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2db
28% Damped Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 98.5db




Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2db
56% Double Layer Damped Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 96.8db




So, 28% coverage with CLD Tile gave a 15.7db reduction in peak amplitude, vs 17.4db for 56% coverage using two 28% coverage layers. Your first 15.7db will cost you $1.78, while that additional 1.7db will cost you another $1.78.


Moving on. I have long held a belief that if you are intent on double layering, that put one layer on each side of the metal would be better than putting two layers on one side. Well, I was wrong. This tested that theory, using 28% coverage on each side of the panel In fact, the results are damn near identical.

Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2db
56% One layer per side damped Freq Resp - Peak Amplitude 96.8db




And here is an overlay showing 28% coverage, vs both forms of 56% coverage.


As with double coverage, you would get your first 15.7db for $1.78 and your additional 1.7db for another $1.78.


I also ran a test just to see what would happen. I ran a 28% vs 120% test using CLD Tiles. The 20% was layered on top of the first layer. My test rig panel measured 10"x10", and CLD tiles are 6"x10", so I put one dead down the center, and cut one in half, covering each uncovered edge.

Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2db
120% Damped Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 95.1db*




And for fun, 0% coverage vs 28% coverage vs 120% coverage.


So in this case, your first 15.7db comes at a cost of $1.78, while an additional 3.4db comes at an additional $10.94.

*Now, there is a catch. If you look at the 120% graph, you'll notice the original peak is actually down more like 24.2db, and there is a new peak lower in frequency. That peak has always been there, but it was always secondary to the largest peak. I have a hunch that secondary peak may be due to the speakers themselves, as you can see that peak in every other test I've done, and it never changes very much, which you can tell by looking at the waterfall plots. None of the products can stop that particular peak from ringing. Even so, if we ignore that peak, you would still be getting the first 15.7db for $1.78, and the next 8.5db for $10.94.


On to the last test. I've had a hunch for a while that using one large piece of material was more effective than using a bunch of small pieces. This test proved that theory correct. In fact, it actually blew me away on how much of a difference it makes. If you cut your pieces too small and use a lot of them, instead of fewer large pieces, CLD actually stops working as a CLD, and works more like a mass loading product. To test this, I cut up a 28% coverage piece into 4 equal pieces, and placed them around the center of the panel.

Bare Metal Frequency Response - Peak Amplitude 114.2
28% Damped Multi Piece Freq Resp - Peak Amplitude 108.4db



And here is 0% coverage, 28% coverage, and 28% coverage split into 4 pieces.


As you can see, you go from a 15.7db reduction in peak amplitude with a single piece of CLD Tile, to a 5.8db reduction if you cut that same size piece into 4 pieces. It also rings for much longer, and maintains its high Q frequency response. Bottom line, don't cut your cld pieces if the panel you are treating is 75% larger than the piece of cld you are using.


That's it guys. Speakers are out and for sale. At some point, I will start again, with a new rig and better results. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

98 Dodge Neon Meca Extreme Class Build
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-23-2016   #2
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 156

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 20 Vx220 will become famous soon enoughVx220 will become famous soon enoughVx220 will become famous soon enoughVx220 will become famous soon enoughVx220 will become famous soon enoughVx220 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Surprised at (but not doubting) the results of the one-piece vs quarters test, I never dreamed it would make that much difference!

I'm guessing if you'd put those four pieces in and over-lapped the edges they'd perform the same as one piece?

Hope everything goes well for you, thanks for what you've done here
Vx220 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2016   #3
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
rton20s's Avatar
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Central Valley California
Posts: 6,780

Thanks: 8
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 309 rton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond reputerton20s has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Super subbed to this one.

Also, if anyone wants to see any group of the plots overlaid from this post, just let me know.


Pioneer DEH-80PRS | Mosconi 6to8 V8 | Arc KS900.6 | Arc KS600.2 | Illusion TL 25 BN | Illusion C5 | Arc Black 12
2015 MECA SQL Street California State Champion
Sonic Electronix Discount Code: hutsell

Last edited by rton20s; 03-23-2016 at 11:45 PM..
rton20s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2016   #4
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,787

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 114 TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to all


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vx220 View Post
Surprised at (but not doubting) the results of the one-piece vs quarters test, I never dreamed it would make that much difference!

I'm guessing if you'd put those four pieces in and over-lapped the edges they'd perform the same as one piece?

Hope everything goes well for you, thanks for what you've done here

I was absolutely surprised too. I expected performance to drop, but not like that. I think, that once cut, you could never get perfomance back up to the uncut level, simply because the constraining layers job is to try to prevent the butyl from deformity from the vibration. With the cuts, even if butted against each other, the constraining layer no longer has control over the whole section of butyl.

I do believe that there are an infinite number of possible results, depending on how you cut and place multiple pieces.

98 Dodge Neon Meca Extreme Class Build
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2016   #5
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,235

Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 72 seafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enoughseafish will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (36)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

On the few vehicle installs that I have done, I have followed the rule of thumb of placing the CLD panel at 25% coverage in the middle of the most open part of the panel that I want to deaden. If I has some CLD leftover and wanted to have more coverage, I would then use the smaller pieces of CLD in the middles of the spaces left over in the same panel, also at 25% coverage of the leftover space. This has always been with SDS CLD.

I wonder how that method stacks up with the results that you are getting??
seafish is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2016   #6
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,787

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 114 TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to all


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

All of my 28% tests were with it in the center. The test pieces were 5.5"x5.5" with a 1.25"x1.25" square punched out of the center. So as long as you do that, you would be poised to get the best results possible from the first patch, and anything else is extra.

98 Dodge Neon Meca Extreme Class Build
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2016   #7
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 bigharv will become famous soon enoughbigharv will become famous soon enoughbigharv will become famous soon enoughbigharv will become famous soon enoughbigharv will become famous soon enoughbigharv will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Thanks for putting the work in and sharing the results. Your brand comparison thread helped me choose the cld I bought, and now this is just in time to guide me as I'm about to install it. Great work!
bigharv is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2016   #8
DIYMA 500 Club
 
cvjoint's Avatar
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Californication
Posts: 4,661

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 184 cvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (18)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Time to subscribe! Are you going to come to any of these No. Cal. meets? I need some pointers and can bring some prying tools haha.

Went over the results again. Can you help me understand what test frequency you are feeding the speaker?

2015 Corvette Z06 Z07:
Head: H800 + Galaxy S7 edge with AptX and optical
Amplifiers: 4,000w+ Zeff class G/H power
2way + Pro logic II steering Satori 6.5" fullrange rears
High: AMT line array;Mid: SS 25W/8567-SE 10";Low: 4x Seas L26RO4Y 10"

Last edited by cvjoint; 03-25-2016 at 03:36 PM..
cvjoint is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2016   #9
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: May 2016
Location: US
Age: 26
Posts: 217


Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 15 caraudiopimps will become famous soon enoughcaraudiopimps will become famous soon enoughcaraudiopimps will become famous soon enoughcaraudiopimps will become famous soon enoughcaraudiopimps will become famous soon enoughcaraudiopimps will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

I just want to thank you once more for sharing these results, and the many, many results in the first thread. You've singlehandedly given thousands of people a way to cut through the bullshit marketing most companies provide. Thank you, and if you're ever up in Colorado, give me a shout! I'd love to buy you a drink, and pick your brain!
caraudiopimps is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-28-2016   #10
DIYMA 500 Club
 
cvjoint's Avatar
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Californication
Posts: 4,661

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 184 cvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enoughcvjoint will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (18)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Bought lots of SDS tiles and things based on the reviews. Thanks!

2015 Corvette Z06 Z07:
Head: H800 + Galaxy S7 edge with AptX and optical
Amplifiers: 4,000w+ Zeff class G/H power
2way + Pro logic II steering Satori 6.5" fullrange rears
High: AMT line array;Mid: SS 25W/8567-SE 10";Low: 4x Seas L26RO4Y 10"
cvjoint is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-29-2016   #11
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Darth SQ's Avatar
 
the darkside is loud
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hidden in the Sierras of Northern California
Posts: 6,077

12V Company:
Automotive Inspections Services
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 208 Darth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (11)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Subscribed.

"It's amazing how good things sound in print."-Anon
Darth SQ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-29-2016   #12
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 684

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 104 JVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (17)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Awesome data.

Thanks very much for sharing this!
JVD240 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2016   #13
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Darth SQ's Avatar
 
the darkside is loud
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hidden in the Sierras of Northern California
Posts: 6,077

12V Company:
Automotive Inspections Services
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 208 Darth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond reputeDarth SQ has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (11)



Default Re: CLD Testing 2 - Application Techniques

Glad to read the Dynamat Xtreme results were excellent.
I was wondering if they sacrificed much when they went with the lighter material.

"It's amazing how good things sound in print."-Anon
Darth SQ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy