Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn) - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 11-23-2008   #1
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Default Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

My sincere apologies to Walt for not following through until now to post a review of the 4" PRS Mids. Walt sent me these with the intention of me writing a review right after, and I've just not gotten around to writing a review until now. So no excuses; here it is....

Reference Info
npdang's Klippel test data and subjective impressions
Walt's (WLDock) PRS 3-Way Review
Link to European web page for this product

There's plenty of info in the above mentioned threads on both technical aspects of performance, and how this driver might perform in a particular system setup (Walt's). I'm hoping I can also provide my subjective impressions of the driver based on my personal biases and values, and provide some insight into my thought process on driver selection.

Setup, Methods, Source Material, Specs....
Having done many reviews now here (but none recently), I'll say again that this is very subjective and by no means an authoritative or conclusive review/comparison of drivers. Do your own research, and understand that my methodology is flawed with many confounding variables. I draw my own conclusions, but your situation may be very different, and your application has more to do with the sound you get out of these or any drivers than anything else.

Setup:
- at home with the same setup/gear used for my tweeter reviews, driver wrapped in a blanket, running (essentially) free-air, and sitting on my carpet floor. I sat myself on the floor just a few feet away from the speaker, similar to if I had them installed in the kick panel of my car.
- in my car with the drivers mounted in my custom kicks, in place of my Scan 12Ms. I sat drivers side to evaluate the pair, and then ran one Scan (left side) and one Pioneer (right side) to do a side by side comparison.

Test Material/Proceedure:
- usual test material
- at home I calibrated myself to my full range system first (one speaker, mono), and then listened to a single driver near field.
- in the car, I first calibrated my ears to my system as it stands, then replaced the mids; retuned and listened to the pair, and then replaced one of my original mids, retuned, and listened again.
- no measurements were taken (sorry gang!)

Important Specs/Info in the Accompanying Product Literature:
Frequency Response (as published by Pioneer):

(click here for full res)

Thiele/Small Parameters:

full res

full res

Pictures, Pictures, Pictures:



View a bunch more pics of the Pioneer and Scan here.

The Sound
Let me just come out and say that I really enjoyed listening to these speakers! Great drivers for SQ use in the car environment.

I would characterize them as being the most detailed composite coned midranges I've had the pleasure to listen to. They compare quite favorably to my Scans, but slightly less warm in character. If you are after extremely tidy (clean) sound with a level of warmth somewhere between metal cones and paper cones, this driver would probably be the ideal choice.

Probably the most surprising thing I found about them is their ability to play high. Look at the frequency response, as published by Pioneer and measured by npdang, and you'll see why. Playing them initially without a low pass filer was quite eye opening: they were exceptionally clear to 10+KHz. This, with the controlled roll off and lack of harsh breakups gives the installer/tuner lots of flexibility for tweeter matching. And bear in mind this comment is coming from a guy currently using the Scan 12M, which is probably one of the most usable drivers in this regard too.

Moving on to low end performance, with their high Qts, these speakers are ideal for IB use. In my sealed kicks, the drivers sounded just a tiny bit "boxy" or congested and I wouldn't recommend use in a sealed enclosure. Vent your kick or find a way to get them basically IB. If you must go small sealed, then the Scan 12M (IMO) is a much better choice.

I think that most people will find the low end performance of the Pioneer very favorable, out of the box. They have a characteristically "tight" or "punchy" character, and did well down to about 300Hz in my system. Much easier to tune on the low end than my Scans, which are just WAY too hot from 200-400Hz in my system config. I personally didn't have to EQ the Pioneers too much, except to compensate a little for the too small enclosure I had them in. Free air in my home, the speakers sounded really smooth.

In as far as dynamic capability, the Pioneers were plenty satisfying for me, but then again, I don't place alot of value on playing very loud. If you are the type of person who needs higher SPL, I don't think the lower efficiency of these drivers would suit. The paper Scans were noticeably more efficient, but they aren't super screamers either. And of course, don't run them ultra low, even though they give the impression they can with their "tight" (high Q) sound characteristic.

Quick Comparisons
vs. Scan 12M
• closer to this speaker than any other composite cone driver I've heard
• distortion performance (perceived) easily on par
• better extension on the top end (surprising)
• lacking some of the warmth and richness of the Scan
• a bit easier to tune

vs. Seas Excel (metal cone mid)
• reminiscently clean sound of a metal cone (great sharpness)
• way better usability on the upper end
• more forgiving; will never scream at you
• way easier to tune

Summary
+ awesome distortion performance
+ incredible upper end extension
+ smooth, flat frequency response
+ very high ease of use factor; good "out of the box" performance
+/- high Q ideal for car use; not good for sealed
- relatively low efficiency
- can't get them in the US

I loved these speakers, and if they were widely available, I'd definitely consider using them in the future. Not much really to complain about, seriously. Pioneer did a great job on these!

Having said that, I gotta say that I'm still a bit partial to the warmth that the Scan 12Ms give me, but it's pretty close race. I myself am not going to be replacing my midranges anytime soon.

What speaker is best for you depends on what your install constraints, budget, and personal preferences lead you to. And although I've listened to several systems with Hybrid mids in them, I've never used them personally, so really can't compare them.

Enjoy, and thanks again for the opportunity, Walt!

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Old 11-23-2008   #2
 
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Wow!
Nicely written review. Thank you shinjon.

With all the positives of this driver. It's a shame they are not easily available.
,Mabey someday.
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Old 11-24-2008   #3
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

SJ,
Thanks so much for doing this...you are a much better reviewer than myself. Great work and awesome findings. I knew early into the last install that I needed to give these driver a much better effort of an install and the hope is to do that by Spring/Summer. Pioneer really should bring these over.

P.S.
I will try my hand at another review of the SLS midbasses you sent me and the JL Audio ZR800-CW I have on the way. Hey, I should send them to you to add to your already sweet 8" midbass review?

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Old 11-24-2008   #4
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Send PP info Ill take them.

*WARNING*Side effects of car audio addiction include: Runny nose, anal leakage, a reduction in supplied semin, and ear bleeding...so enjoy.
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Old 11-24-2008   #5
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
P.S.
I will try my hand at another review of the SLS midbasses you sent me and the JL Audio ZR800-CW I have on the way. Hey, I should send them to you to add to your already sweet 8" midbass review?

Walt
Take your time to eval those SLS 8s and the JLs. If you wanna send the JLs for me to check out after and add to my 8" review thread, that would be fine. You know where I live. No rush; on your own time is fine.

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving, Walt!

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Old 11-24-2008   #6
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Great review Shinjohn! I'm glad to hear that you liked these mids that much. Even if they were available in the States, what's the price point on them? I thought I remembered them being in the $400/pair range. Maybe I'll get lucky enough to hear them one of these days.

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Old 11-24-2008   #7
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Nice review!

I wish we'd see similar efforts by more of our members.

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Old 11-25-2008   #8
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedrex View Post
Great review Shinjohn! I'm glad to hear that you liked these mids that much. Even if they were available in the States, what's the price point on them? I thought I remembered them being in the $400/pair range. Maybe I'll get lucky enough to hear them one of these days.

Zach
Honestly, I don't know the cost. Walt let me borrow them to audition, and now they are back with him in MI. I keep saying to myself that next time I'm in Asia, I'll go find a local dealer to get a set from.

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Old 11-25-2008   #9
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

One UK site had them online for about $242 USD? If they came here I am sure one could find decent prices on ebay if they wanted to go that route. The 720PRS set list for $550 but I picked up a set for $235 shipped.
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Old 11-25-2008   #10
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Oh so those mids are now back in michigan...hmmm i live in michigan...and i just got a pair of the 830986's...hmmm... i wonder how those sound in comparison to the prs mids...hmmm...sure would like to hear those in person...wouldn't mind driving to hear those... lol

But really have either of you (shinjon or wldock) had a chance to audition the peerless 830986's? I'm curious as to how does the peerless stack up to the prs. Also please somebody do a nice review on the zr800 vs the SLS vs 8ib4

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Old 11-25-2008   #11
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manish View Post
Oh so those mids are now back in michigan...hmmm i live in michigan...and i just got a pair of the 830986's...hmmm... i wonder how those sound in comparison to the prs mids...hmmm...sure would like to hear those in person...wouldn't mind driving to hear those... lol
But really have either of you (shinjon or wldock) had a chance to audition the peerless 830986's? I'm curious as to how does the peerless stack up to the prs. Also please somebody do a nice review on the zr800 vs the SLS vs 8ib4
I have yet to hear the 830986 drivers but i am sure they perform waay out of their price range. I like the Vifa/Peerless TG9 drivers a lot.
When I get the car together please come to one of the DIYMA MI meets and check them out. There have been a couple of them in the Livonia area and I hope Jim (birdie2000) will continue to host these again next year.


As far as the midbasses....Stay tuned I now have the JL's and a set of SLS's on loan to compare. I may even throw in a set of Dayton refs and SEAS Excels into the mix?
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Last edited by WLDock; 11-25-2008 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 11-25-2008   #12
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinjohn View Post
Honestly, I don't know the cost. Walt let me borrow them to audition, and now they are back with him in MI. I keep saying to myself that next time I'm in Asia, I'll go find a local dealer to get a set from.
And I was just in South Korea for the past couple of weeks. I should've thought to go out and look at some local shops. I bet I could've found them there!!! Damn!

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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

I have contacted a dozen companies over in Europe to see if they would ship them over here. I have not heard back from any of them. Guess they dont speak english.

Pioneer wont help out, I bitched them out since they wouldnt get ahold of Pioneer of Europe for me to see if there was a dealer that would ship them over here, or atleast one that spoke English so I could get ahold of them.
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Old 11-25-2008   #14
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedrex View Post
And I was just in South Korea for the past couple of weeks. I should've thought to go out and look at some local shops. I bet I could've found them there!!! Damn!
COME ON! What kind of DIY'er are you guys? You go to Asia and don't check out audio stuff? Just making fun....

Now that I have the mids...I am getting spoiled. I want this BadBoy now...not that I can afford it:

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http://www.pioneer.com.sg/storefront...&CatId=2,25,89

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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Yep, there's a bunch of stuff Pioneer doesn't want to bring to the US. They assume it won't sell if they do as Pioneer isn't considered a "high end" brand here...wonder why when they don't even have the PRS set widely available. How do they expect anyone to find out? There was talk some time back about bringing the RS line to the US. Years later...still nothing.

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Old 11-25-2008   #16
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
COME ON! What kind of DIY'er are you guys? You go to Asia and don't check out audio stuff? Just making fun....
I had originally planned to do quite a bit of audio shopping while I was there. But I ended up having to actually work while on my business trip. Having to earn your paycheck FTL!!
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Default Re: Pioneer TS-S101PRS Review (shinjohn)

i know this is old thread but never heard how this line Ts-c720,520,101 Prs(6.5,5.25,4") compared to Newer US line Ts-C172,132,S062Prs(6.75,5.25,2-5/8") i think this would be great debate! plus I REALLY WANT TO Know Who has best 3" mid Focal power Kx3,Pioneer Stage4,Audison voce,Hertz Hl700.3,Scanspeak ect ect! i didn't list utopia as getting a little to boutique/$$!
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