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Old 01-11-2007   #26
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
2 ohms per single channel stable, have not tested output yet into 2 ohms. If your box is metal and you tighten the shit out of the connectors you will only need to attach to one point. If you want to install all the lugs and tie them together then knock yourself out

Chad
After a large cup of Honduras finest, I feel like a moron. I should know better than to ask questions before being fully caffienated..

Looks like I'll be soldering all the lugs as my box is plastique! Knew I should have grabbed the alumi one..

Thanks Chad..

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Old 01-11-2007   #27
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

This goddamn forum is not allowing me to quote today so i gotta do it old-skool

STI GTO Sed:
I didn't pay much attention to his instructions, as I don't have one infront of me yet, but to bridge you hook it up like most car amps right? For example: L+ and R-, or ch1+ and ch2-

Is that correct?


Me Sez:
Yep,

Here's how it works......

All amplifiers use 2 positives (driven) for bridging, all (most) amplifiers have a positive (driven) and a ground for the speaker. The negative of the second channel is actually the INTERNAL driven lug and the positive is the GROUND.

Here's why.

Bridging works by inverting the phase on one channel, you can still use two speakers wired correctly, they will be out of phase, wire the second backwards and they will be In phase and IN absolute phase. By going to the two positives you are doubling the voltage at the outputs (one channel is swinging up while the other is swinging down) in this app both speaker terminals are "live" and there is no ground reference.

Pro amps do this with a switch, the switch simply comes off the preamp stage of channel A, inverts it and drives channel B with that, this ensures the same gain on both channels, it's mono, driven with only one channel of preamp, you then go off the two positives for a voltage double, Chb's preamp just pisses in the wind, often thru a resistor to prevent internal oscillation.

Car amps are "pre bridged” although they are labeled +-+- they are wired internally +--+. The phase of channel B is flipped from the get go and chB's output labeling is backwards. This was hinted at in the original post of this amp when I suggested driving headphones then finding out I had to invert one channel. So when you wire + chA and -ChB you are actually wiring + and + internally and bridging happens by simply monoing the inputs and matching gains. Some amps have a bridge switch which is simply a summing network.

There is a couple reasons this is done and has proven in the pro world to make a difference. The technical reason is that most LF information is mono anyway. Let’s say it is hooked up "conventionally" and you get a kick drum hit. Since amplifiers are bipolar and half of a channel amplifies the positive pulse and the other half does the negative side, both speakers pull off of the positive and negative section of the power supply at the same time. By bridging the amp or flipping the phase of one side, during the exact same impulse each speaker is pulling from different sides of the bipolar supply. So on a positive swing chA is pulling from the positive side of the PS but chB is pulling from the negative side, flip the phase of the speaker and both cones move in the same direction but the power supply is effectively balanced. This has been proven to increase headroom.

So on these amps ch's 2,4 and 6 have the phase inverted naturally so bridging channel one needs to take place between ch2, 4, or 6. It won't work by bridging between another odd number.

The input section needs to be modified to mono odds and evens on this amp, no biggie, switch 2 wires or curt two traces and re-route.

Here's another explanation of the power supply thing

http://www.prosoundweb.com/live/arti...mptricks.shtml

Enjoy everyone, let me know if I blew you out of the water, I'll assist, it's important to know this stuff!

Chad

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Old 01-11-2007   #28
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Hahaha...i think im more confused now What is the proper way to bridge this amp? Or do we just bridge it like a car amp +ch1 and -ch2? A diagram would merit brownie points but a how-to would be perfect
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Old 01-11-2007   #29
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Thank you sir. You're the man!

The hood's been good to me, every since I was a lower case g
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Old 01-11-2007   #30
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by azngotskills
Hahaha...i think im more confused now What is the proper way to bridge this amp? Or do we just bridge it like a car amp +ch1 and -ch2? A diagram would merit brownie points but a how-to would be perfect

I don't have provisions for doing diagrams except MS paint, and I would then do a worse job than my 6yr old

Yes it's as you said and described in the manual, BUT ch1 and 2 have to be level matched and driven in mono, the existing preamp does not have the provisions for driving chs 1and 2 as the left then 3 and 4 as the right. It's wired LRLR on the input plug. If using the supplied preamp you would have to swap the wiring between ch's 2 and 3 inside the amp or preamp.

That being said. What do you all use for diagrams? Or if I wanted to take a picture, draw lines to shit and put labels on them to explain things? I SUCK at photo editing and still draw my schematics by hand! Believe it or not I find drawing them by hand to sink into my thick skull better (see drug use thread) If i draw them I can visualize them like trying to go to sleep etc, if I have software do it it's in one ear and out the other

Chad

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Old 01-11-2007   #31
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Chad,
Thanks for your writeup. I'm getting to loath this forum as it's made me spend way too much money on audio recently!

I had originally decided to pass on this one, but your pictures of the internals and the work you did to create an input box inspired me to use this for an audio project of my own.... Dang it, I just bought one!!!!

My wife must think I'm going crazy. I just had 5 different boxes arrive on my doorstep yesterday evening, all audio related stuff. And I'm still waiting for my Alpine ring radiators too from PAC Parts! LOL!

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Old 01-11-2007   #32
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

I get home before my wife Then burn the boxes And always have an excuse cooked up and ready. Thank god she does not spend much time out in the shop!

Chad

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Old 01-11-2007   #33
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

LOL...instead of your wives its my parents
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Old 01-11-2007   #34
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

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Originally Posted by chad
I get home before my wife Then burn the boxes And always have an excuse cooked up and ready. Thank god she does not spend much time out in the shop!

Chad
LOL..

A couple of months ago, my fiancee asked me what I would ever do with fifty Precision Power car amplifiers.. Mind you, she wasn't mad, just curious and of course I didn't have a good answer. So I asked her what she would ever do with all the pairs of shoes in the closet? She had no idea. We just stood there and laughed about it. I have my gear and she has her shoes..

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Old 01-11-2007   #35
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Well, I have male genetalia but...... WTF are you going to do with 50 PPI amps?

My vice is music, I have to look into the structural soundness of the area where I will put my music collection.

Chad

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Old 01-11-2007   #36
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

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Originally Posted by chad
Well, I have male genetalia but...... WTF are you going to do with 50 PPI amps?

My vice is music, I have to look into the structural soundness of the area where I will put my music collection.

Chad
Well, for awhile there I was restoring them with the intent to resell. More for fun than profit because I'm a whiz at airbrushing and blending. That didn't work out so good because once they were perfect again I couldn't sell 'em. It was all downhill from there.. I have all the white Sedona's from the 50 all the way up to the 500ix. Complete set of white Arts from the A100 to the A1200 minus the Ax404. Complete set of white ProMOS and an extra MOS450. Besides that I have: Ax606.2, ProArt50, 5075DX, 4200AM, 2050AM, 2030AM, A200, A204 and probably 12 or so Sedona amps of various years/colors/wattages. Processors... gosh lots of them...20 or so. And one PPI Pro 10" sub. I have a thing for Xtant too, but let's not go there!

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Old 01-11-2007   #37
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

You's peoples are god.

I got 2 of them sitting at the house waiting for me to go pick them up and play with them, it'll be a few weeks though, mabey yall will have it all XLR'd up and 2 amps bridged.....mabey for connection to DCX-2496?
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Old 01-11-2007   #38
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

well i got my pair in today, and man they are sexay.
i cant wait to get them hooked up to something.

~Magick_Man~
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Old 01-11-2007   #39
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

I've had mine for a few months now IIRC, ever since ScottFX linked them in OT....I hooked it up to a pair of Goldwood poly cone 7" auto midbasses and a pair of the Tangband 1" neo tweets and they did pretty well sitting in cardboard baffles on the floor....

I was thinking they actually had adjustable xovers but since they don't, I've stashed it in the closet. No time to build custom passives for PC speakers and I can't find a Creative soundcard that doesn't wreak havoc w/my PC...

Neat little unit though....time for a garage sale...

Jeremy
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Old 01-12-2007   #40
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

The goldwoods with the silver cone? Those have always sparked my eye for a door install, they look too good to be true spec-wise.

Chad

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Old 01-12-2007   #41
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

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Originally Posted by chad
The goldwoods with the silver cone? Those have always sparked my eye for a door install, they look too good to be true spec-wise.

Chad
I got those 5.25 goldwoods (its actually a clear cone)for a passive install in my friends hyndai doors. Mated with a passive JL crossover and some quart tweeters I had laying around.

At first I was suprised, they performed well, especially in the midrange area. Midbass s typical of a 5.25 woofer meaning highpassed at 120 hz. two weeks into the install, the tinsel leads snapped on one. Build quality is not so great. Fixed with solder but for 10 bucks, expect an average speakers with average results. For ten bucks, what do you expect?

For this amp, I plan to use roman's microbes. I just finished them and they sound amazing.



Perfect for 30-60 watts. Plan to use a 6.5 tang sub for the bridged 5+6 channel.

Design for microbes here


http://www.rjbaudio.com/Microbe/microbe.html

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Old 01-12-2007   #42
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Just ordered mine too... along with a JBL 1500GTi.
Now I need to get me an active crossover and some waveguides with a set of compression drivers and I'll be set.

Thanks for the find guys!

Leo

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Driver found...
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Old 01-12-2007   #43
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Chad, yeah the 'silver' ones, that tyrone mentioned, but 6.5".....only limited aspect is the 2.5mm? xmax but running them free air w/about 30w rms on them from the amp, they didn't bottom out. I was more afraid of blowing the little TB new tweets w/no xover on them....

I've been meaning to try them out but am still running the Silverflutes in my van doors IB (love them though I just kicked a small dent in the cap)...

You said the amp does have a hp/lp depending on the channles? I may wait till I get a new PC and try a soundcard that has xover/eq ability so I can use the amp to drive a nice little PC speaker setup...

Jeremy
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Old 01-12-2007   #44
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy
Chad, yeah the 'silver' ones, that tyrone mentioned, but 6.5".....only limited aspect is the 2.5mm? xmax but running them free air w/about 30w rms on them from the amp, they didn't bottom out. I was more afraid of blowing the little TB new tweets w/no xover on them....

I've been meaning to try them out but am still running the Silverflutes in my van doors IB (love them though I just kicked a small dent in the cap)...

You said the amp does have a hp/lp depending on the channles? I may wait till I get a new PC and try a soundcard that has xover/eq ability so I can use the amp to drive a nice little PC speaker setup...

Jeremy
Yes 1-4 are HP and 5-6 are LP Mono, Preamp does the XO, the Freqs are darn near unuseable. I'll know more after putting it on an analyzer.

Chad

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Old 01-12-2007   #45
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Can you get a soundcard that actually allows you to electronically xover mids/tweets? As in slap a mid and tweet in a small enclosure with no passive, and tune/set from the computer?? That would be awesome....

I just don't have the time to buy, try and retry passives so some kind of PC xover would be necessary for me...

Jeremy
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Old 01-12-2007   #46
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy
Can you get a soundcard that actually allows you to electronically xover mids/tweets? As in slap a mid and tweet in a small enclosure with no passive, and tune/set from the computer?? That would be awesome....

I just don't have the time to buy, try and retry passives so some kind of PC xover would be necessary for me...

Jeremy
Im thinking that with Chad's box design you could just use fmods.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....nufacturer=265

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Old 01-12-2007   #47
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

How would one go about connecting external processing so 6 FR Ch's would be needed, how would one also go about linking the 2 amps together for 60x6@4ohm usage?
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Old 01-13-2007   #48
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by demon2091tb
How would one go about connecting external processing so 6 FR Ch's would be needed, how would one also go about linking the 2 amps together for 60x6@4ohm usage?

Just build the break out box for 6 Ch's. As for linking 2 you could use the same BOB, hang 2 link wires off of it, then wire 1/2 to an RCA then 3/4, 5/6 and on the other amp 1/2 (7/8) 3/4 (9/10) and 5/6 (11/12) Wola 6 RCA's 12 channels utilized to derive 6 bridged up channels. I'll bet you that they make some potent heat at 4 ohms bridged according to another forum linked.

Chad

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Old 01-13-2007   #49
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Remember if you have soldering chops you can put the connections on the amp and forget the box, I can help you thru it. Bridging can take place internally so only 3 RCA's are on the amp.

Chad

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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
Just build the break out box for 6 Ch's. As for linking 2 you could use the same BOB, hang 2 link wires off of it, then wire 1/2 to an RCA then 3/4, 5/6 and on the other amp 1/2 (7/8) 3/4 (9/10) and 5/6 (11/12) Wola 6 RCA's 12 channels utilized to derive 6 bridged up channels. I'll bet you that they make some potent heat at 4 ohms bridged according to another forum linked.

Chad
Where is that link and is this bad heat?
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