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Old 01-13-2007   #51
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

In this big-ass thread http://xlobby.com/forum/viewtopic.p...der=asc&start=0 One person complains of it running hot. These folks are using them in home distribution, he may be running it balls to the walls 24/7 and using L-pads in the rooms. Then I would suspect it to run a tad warm

I haven't had the time lately to wander out to the shop and really beat it up, hopefully tomorrow/Monday.

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Old 01-14-2007   #52
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
In this big-ass thread http://xlobby.com/forum/viewtopic.p...der=asc&start=0 One person complains of it running hot. These folks are using them in home distribution, he may be running it balls to the walls 24/7 and using L-pads in the rooms. Then I would suspect it to run a tad warm

I haven't had the time lately to wander out to the shop and really beat it up, hopefully tomorrow/Monday.

Chad
Well, mines to arrive shortly so if you dont mind Chad, I may be pming you with a bunch questions about bypassing the preamp and creating one rca input and hopefully a stereo and a mono output bridging all the channels.

Alpine INE-S920HD - Audiocontrol Matrix - Kenwood X4R - Kenwood X1R - ESB KT6.28 - ESB Ottomila 16 - Boston G5 10" @32
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Old 01-14-2007   #53
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

I'll start looking into combining networks to mono out to one channel. 1 input meaning one stereo input right (as in 2 RCA's?)

Chad

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Old 01-14-2007   #54
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
I'll start looking into combining networks to mono out to one channel. 1 input meaning one stereo input right (as in 2 RCA's?)

Chad
Yes I need to use my preamps stereo (r and l rca) output into the amp and then have 3 channels of output ( 60x3) considering Ill be bridging all channels. Two will be stereo speakers and one channel will be for a small sub. Easiest way is best for me, so I dont mind use of y adaptes and passive crossovers if necessary.

Thanks
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Old 01-14-2007   #55
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Specs from a torture session......

Ran it at the verge of clipping, sine wave, 100% duty, in this config for 30 min then took measurements..

1/2 bridged at 8 ohm
3/4 bridged at 8 ohm
5/6 bridged at 4 ohm

came up with....
1/2 39.47W / 17.77VRMS
3/4 39.47W / 17.76VRMS
5/6 76.30W / 17.47VRMS

Not half bad. It got pretty damn hot but never shut down, all voltages were the same at 10Hz, 500Hz, 1KHz, and 25KHz. So she'll make it way above and below where we can hear.... No clipping.


The 5/6 side got hot QUICK! but I'll run it again tomorrow at 4 Ohm on 1/2 to make sure it was not that section of the power supply getting hot. After time the whole heatsink leveled out to about the same temp (about 10 Min).

I'll also do a long term 1/3 power test, 100% duty for shits and grins to check for heat in a more realistic condition.

Chad

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Old 01-15-2007   #56
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

thanks for your input on these amps...got mine in but havent decide how im going to use them yet I know im building a breakout box for RCAs like your though
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Old 01-18-2007   #57
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Im am trying to get parts together in order to build the pre-amp RCA box, are these the right Female RCAs? Sorry never built something like this before
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Old 01-18-2007   #58
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Those will work, these are cheaper and perform the same task

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-280

Chad

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Old 01-18-2007   #59
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Thanks Chad...i was looking for the ones like yours but couldnt find them but now I have

PS: Is a similar BUD box that you have, available on partexpress.com? I just want to make one big order. Thanks and sorry about the noob questions and troubling you

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Old 01-18-2007   #60
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....=main&desc=ASC

the HAMMOND project boxes look to be what he has.
i am not sure what size he used but there is quite a selection.
i will probably be ordering a pair myself soon so i can wire up the 2 amps i got.

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Old 01-18-2007   #61
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Tyrone....thanks for the F Mod suggestion....haven't used those in over 10 years and didn't even think of 'em....I may be able to actually put to use something I've bought on impulse, how nice...

I'm thinking of trying to port the Goldwoods though they and the tweets are 4ohm...never tried using car audio speakers for home though I guess it's no worse than doing the reverse, as long as the amp will handle it...

Thanks guys

Jeremy
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Old 01-18-2007   #62
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Magick_Man~
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....=main&desc=ASC

the HAMMOND project boxes look to be what he has.
i am not sure what size he used but there is quite a selection.
i will probably be ordering a pair myself soon so i can wire up the 2 amps i got.

~Magick_Man~
Thanks man....i need to learn how to search the PE site better
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Old 01-18-2007   #63
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy
Tyrone....thanks for the F Mod suggestion....haven't used those in over 10 years and didn't even think of 'em....I may be able to actually put to use something I've bought on impulse, how nice...
rather than spending all that money on f-mods (which use low quality components, and are not precise) you can diy your own:

http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/f...ssiveHLxo.html

the toughest part will be figuring out your amp's input impedance.

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Old 01-18-2007   #64
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

azngotslills, the Hammonds will be fine, go with the aluminum ones they are insanely similar to the bud boxes. Be careful drilling them, the bit will want to catch... BAD!


SQ
I think the way F-mod gets around the impedance thing is by making the inline device have a final "input impedance" (but actually an output impedance) by dropping a resistor across the output. Then the relatively high input of the amplifier has little effect on the final crossover frequency, although it does have some tolerance issues. Lets say the amp has an input impedance of 10K and you adjust the crossover for 1K and drop a 1K across the input of the amp. The 10K will have little effect. You dig? or did I just talk myself in a circle?

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Old 01-18-2007   #65
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
I think the way F-mod gets around the impedance thing is by making the inline device have a final "input impedance" (but actually an output impedance) by dropping a resistor across the output. Then the relatively high input of the amplifier has little effect on the final crossover frequency, although it does have some tolerance issues. Lets say the amp has an input impedance of 10K and you adjust the crossover for 1K and drop a 1K across the input of the amp. The 10K will have little effect. You dig? or did I just talk myself in a circle?
yup, that sounds like a good way to make it work without having to measure anything.

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Old 01-18-2007   #66
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Hey Chad,

On those passive line level xovers are you suggesting the roughly equivalent to a zobel network. That sounds like a great idea.
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Old 01-18-2007   #67
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Has anyone found where the Preamp crosses the channels at??
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Old 01-19-2007   #68
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
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Has anyone found where the Preamp crosses the channels at??

Too damn high for subs, too low for anything else. No imperical measurements yet. I'd love to have a schematic for the preamp so we could swap out components in the XO circuit!

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Old 01-19-2007   #69
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher
Hey Chad,

On those passive line level xovers are you suggesting the roughly equivalent to a zobel network. That sounds like a great idea.

Ummmm, yeah, kinda. You are not doing any reactance correction, just lowering the "input impedance of the amp" yourself so that the actual input impedance of the amplifier does not mess with your chosen crossover point as much. making the input impedance more predictable) There will be loss, but after hooking up the amp and listening to it I can attest you can drive it with about anything. when cracked wide open it's pretty darn sensitive! I would not worry about a couple dB of loss.

an example....

If the amp has a 10K input impedance with a 1 K strapped across it the final input impedance would be 909.091Ohms

If it had an input impedance of 20K and a 1K strapped across it the final impedance would be 952.381Ohms

As you can see DOUBLING the input impedance has little effect on the final impedance with a 1K strapped across it, granted there IS a difference but that's where the tolerance issues with F-Mods come into play. Darn near any source unit can drive a 1K input impedance with ease if these were real numbers.

Chad

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Old 01-19-2007   #70
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Just received my amp today. Ordered it last weekend and received today... and the guy is only 30-some miles away from me..

Just tested the amp bridged channels 1+2 left 3+4 right and 5+6 sub. works great. Except the FR and crossover is all screwed up.

Chad, you think we could bypass the crossover and EQ on the Pre-amp while retaining the volume control? That would be perfect for me for the time being.

Later down the road I'll need the 6 individual inputs for when I get the new crossover and the compression drivers.

Oh, you think the amp can handle subbass duty on bridged 5+6ch driving the 1500GTi? I tested it with my 1000GTi for about 45min and the amp never even got warm.

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Old 01-22-2007   #71
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

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Just received my amp today. Ordered it last weekend and received today... and the guy is only 30-some miles away from me..

Just tested the amp bridged channels 1+2 left 3+4 right and 5+6 sub. works great. Except the FR and crossover is all screwed up.

Chad, you think we could bypass the crossover and EQ on the Pre-amp while retaining the volume control? That would be perfect for me for the time being.

Later down the road I'll need the 6 individual inputs for when I get the new crossover and the compression drivers.

Oh, you think the amp can handle subbass duty on bridged 5+6ch driving the 1500GTi? I tested it with my 1000GTi for about 45min and the amp never even got warm.

Leo
Chad?

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Old 01-22-2007   #72
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

OOps! Sleepin at the switch I played Rokstar all weekend so I'm just catching up

I was going to do more work the amp project this weekend but got sidetracked on this weekend's impulse buy/project. Should be finished with it by Tuesday night, I'll get a pic up, it's pure 'lektrik sex! I HAVE to get it done before next weekend and have a lot of soldering to do! I do However have heat figures for posting that I brought today and I'll get them up soon.

I kinda gave up on the preamp for the time being. it's an SMT dual sided board with THIN traces. It's going to take a fine tip iron, a steady hand, and some drive to do what you want. I decided a straight path would be best for me. You can always obtain a 250K-500K dual gang pot (linear or audio taper it's up to your preference, I prefer linear though) and wire it up as a stereo volume control. This will make the preamp go bye-bye including the possible noise from the Mic Pre, tone controls and gain stages. The amp can be adjusted to be heinously sensitive, you don't need any more gain IMHO.

Anything is possible, it's just going to take some time at the bench probing around. The crossover needs to be bypassed as well as the channel 5/6 summing (possibly putting the summing on some kind of switch) Not having the service docs SUCKS!

You can see the crossover section in the upper right hand corner, see the op-amps and support caps, etc? You will see more caps/op-amps in the lower center, that's the tone circuit.

Pic:

It's just going to take a bit of time I guess, I'd also like the Mic Pre gone unless yall are karakoe fans

As for the 1500GTi... Go for it! It's probably the best driver for the task, it's an easy load and is quite efficient. It will make the most of what you have. In fact, I'd do it or still may if/when I bastardize a 2226 Recone kit I have it on my shop speakers bridged, using 4 of the channels and it gets louder than I thought it would before noticable distortion, verah cool!

Chad

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Old 01-22-2007   #73
 
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

You're right. I just opened mine and the traces are really too thin. Neither of my soldering irons tips are fine enough. Oh well, screw that thing...

I'm just gonna get a cheap Behringer CX2310 crossover for the time being, that should do the trick I suppose... Unless you recommend against the Behringer unit.?

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Old 01-22-2007   #74
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

The Behringer will do just fine. Another cheapo but good analog crossover is the samson S-3way.

Chad

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Old 01-22-2007   #75
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Default Re: Zapco/BSG/Ebay deal

Here are the results of heat after testing the amp at 1/3 rated power for 8 hours.

The room temp was 68.4 deg F +/-2 degrees

I ran the amp bridged 2 channels of 8 ohm and 1 channel at 4 ohm. So in theory 4 of the channels were seeing a 4 ohm load and 2 of them were seeing 2 ohm.

The temp readings were the same from side to side when i moved the 4 ohm load around so no worries about one side being better for the bridged channels due to power supply component mounting.

The side with 2/2/4 ohms ran at a temp of 155.4 Deg F average with a high of 161 Deg and a low of 146 Deg

The side with4/4/4 ohms ran at 148.7 Deg F with a high of 153 Deg and a low of 138 Deg.

Yes it ran hot but never thermaled out you certainly could not comfortably keep your hand on it! The temp did rise and fall and the rise and fall was perododic, dunno why, possibly a self adjusting bias scheme? There are some small transistors on the sink and sometimes those (MPSA93 If I remember right) are used for thermal tracking. But that's a shot in the dark.

Chad

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