I really agree. I wish there would be some kind of communication from him regarding this, addressing it as a design flaw, an assembly flaw, or any info. I think that if it was addressed as an issue that is now receiving specific attention, people would feel much less wary about playing Russian roulette when buying a new Leviathan.
Huge companies such as Intel and Seagate have released products that destroyed their customer's data, on SSD's and hard drives. They have owned up to it, and have released updates that prevent this from happening. Life goes on. I think that silence in this case is the worst thing, as it just leaves everyone wondering and guessing as to the root cause.
From my conversations with Steve, he truly believes there is no issue with this as it doesn't happen with every amp. Therefore this leads me to a conclusion that during assembly something is going on as the design of the amp is rediculously good imo, if you look at the specs there's nothing else like it. Being silent about it probably doesn't help the community either, but Steve doesn't come across as a "liar" to me, quite the opposite actually, one of the nicest and most sincere people I have talked to in a while. There's no doubt that if this popping situation is not acknowledged, resolved and put to bed, it will cost Zed audio in the end.
I didn't mean to insinuate that Steve is a liar at all. I feel that he is acutally one of the most thoughtful and honest people in the business. I agree that he feels that there is no issue with his amplifiers. I also feel that on paper, the Leviathan is one of the absolute best amplifier options, bar none.
However, just because this popping issue does not happen with every amp does not mean that there is not an issue. Even if the issue rate is ~ 5%, I think there is HEAVY reason to conduct an extremely indepth investigation.
He does seem to be repairing these problematic amps as they are returned to him, so there is obviously some sort of location/component/etc that can be causing this. I think that communicating that this has been identified and will be remedied in upcoming units really needs to be done.
He does seem to be repairing these problematic amps
Thats new to me -
I dont think he fixed any amp with the popping / DC problem,
I got an email from him exactly a week ago saying he is trying to duplicate my problem, and to give him a few days.
Next contact from him was via a friend, and I was told to increase the resistor in charge of the amp turn on delay (which I understand from this thread is futile?)
What I do find strange, is that most of the problematic DC amps are from the first batch* (I think - this should be worth checking out) - so something did change, question is - what? I am not sure Steve himself knows yet.
* My serial - #L10090234
It would be interesting to compare...
i wanted one of the BADLY as it would be perfect to run a 3 speaker front stage with a jbl ms8. but based on the issues i read about, i decided that until it really DOES get ironed out, the safer bet was an old 6 channel lanzar optidrive from ebay. ... i'll get a Lev when it's been sorted tho ...
I changed the resistor in mine to the suggested value listed in a PDF he sent and it greatly reduced the POP from every few starts to maybe one in twenty. But I am wondering how some people are blowing speakers with it, mine did it for months before I contacted steve about it because I thought it was a result of a problem caused by a rushed temporary install and yet I haven't damaged any speakers. But I always turn the stereo down before I turn off the car, but I guess if you turn off with the volume blaring and then turn it back on then you may get a very big pop that could cause damage. Steve has said though I can put a larger value resistor in up to 220kohm (120kohm fitted currently) so I think since the problem is pretty rare now once I change it to a 200kohm the problem should be rectified. The change once I get the soldering iron out only takes about 30secs to do.
From what I gathered the problem is caused by the amp turning on to quickly so it ends up seeing the small burst of signal that most HU's output on turn on especially when starting your car when you cycle the HU trigger on, off, on. So if you delay the start up of the amp the amp shouldn't see this signal and hopefully won't get the burst of DC and engage the protection circuit.
Gradually learning to do more and more with less and less until I can do everything with nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
Standard operating procedure.. like blowjobs in porn.
...
but I guess if you turn off with the volume blaring and then turn it back on then you may get a very big pop that could cause damage.
...
From what I gathered the problem is caused by the amp turning on to quickly so it ends up seeing the small burst of signal that most HU's output on turn on especially when starting your car when you cycle the HU trigger on, off, on.
First issue - no, the DC was sent when volume was very low (I usually turn it low before I put it off, and the second time I am 200% sure this was the case as once it happened once I was even more paranoid than usual).
Second issue - my HU is detachable, I put it on only after ignition, so there is no on / off / on cycle. Also - it doesnt happen with any other amp on very long trial on same installation (I used SRX4.1 for a week and Nakamichi PA-504 for a few months now - no pop, not even a hint of pop).
And lastly - I have seen amps that make a pop (not in car audio but still), and never seen a pop like this - the lights were dimmed when this happened, it was like plugging my speaker straight to the car battery!
By the way - Steve has been very fair with me and offered to fix the amp + pay shippment for it there and back (about 200$ worth). I cannot send the amp as I will be charged customs for it (about 300$) + I dont have a gurantee that the problem will be fixed-
A friend of mine took this offer and sent 2 amps with the noise issue, and they came back with the same problem + a new problem (amp gets into protection mode every few times). So sending it back does not seem a good idea for me.
I have put the amp in a local lab and hope for the best
But I always turn the stereo down before I turn off the car, but I guess if you turn off with the volume blaring and then turn it back on then you may get a very big pop that could cause damage.
From what I gathered the problem is caused by the amp turning on to quickly so it ends up seeing the small burst of signal that most HU's output on turn on especially when starting your car when you cycle the HU trigger on, off, on. So if you delay the start up of the amp the amp shouldn't see this signal and hopefully won't get the burst of DC and engage the protection circuit.
My speakers were blown at less than 1/4 gain and zero volume. I drive a VW Passat and the integrated HU doesn't really go off when I switch it off. It goes into standby mode and only goes off when I switch off the engine. I'll "off" the HU, ie, switch to 0 volume and press the power switch, and it goes into standby mode, everytime before I off the engine. This has become a habit for me.
Well, I blew my tweeters (very loud pop sound) just by starting the engine, the HU is not even switched on yet....that's how great this amp is...
I have serial number #L9100229 -- I had only temp installed both my Kronos and Leviathan. I am very happy with the SQ and power of these amps. I have not encountered the turn on pop, but truthfully due to only listening under temp install listening conditions I would have not had full listening time to have encountered this. I have not encountered the problem with the few times I have turned the ign on while it was installed. I wonder how many guys are in the same boat where perhaps the amps have been sitting in the box waiting for the new install and have not yet encountered this problem therefore leading leading Steve to believe that this is isolated or not a problem? I have never had anything but great interaction with Steve and due to my experience with him I have defended him, but this should be cleared up.... otherwise the speculation can run wild. My experience has always been to take these kinds of things up with the mfg directly since things turn to shit storms so fast on forums. When kept civil the forums can be a great resource for everyone-- including mfgs. Like someone had mentioned before it must something going on in the assembly line that Steve does not have his hands on or is aware of. In any case I hope this all gets cleared up and that those parties affected are taken care of.
The problem with only taking things up with the mfg directly is others who could benefit from your experience never know there is an issue until they buy the product and experience it for themselves. Since these same mfgs benefit from positive feedback on forums (see Arc Audio, Tru, HAT, etc), I feel it is fair to air the "dirty laundry" here also.
"No where in your rambling incoherent response did you come close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. We are all dumber for having listened to it."
"People are dumb panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
I have serial number #L9100229 -- I had only temp installed both my Kronos and Leviathan. I am very happy with the SQ and power of these amps. I have not encountered the turn on pop, but truthfully due to only listening under temp install listening conditions I would have not had full listening time to have encountered this. I have not encountered the problem with the few times I have turned the ign on while it was installed. I wonder how many guys are in the same boat where perhaps the amps have been sitting in the box waiting for the new install and have not yet encountered this problem therefore leading leading Steve to believe that this is isolated or not a problem? I have never had anything but great interaction with Steve and due to my experience with him I have defended him, but this should be cleared up.... otherwise the speculation can run wild. My experience has always been to take these kinds of things up with the mfg directly since things turn to shit storms so fast on forums. When kept civil the forums can be a great resource for everyone-- including mfgs. Like someone had mentioned before it must something going on in the assembly line that Steve does not have his hands on or is aware of. In any case I hope this all gets cleared up and that those parties affected are taken care of.
I have serial number 231 and sent the amp in this past Monday. He should get the amp this Monday the 10th. I am a little surprised that everyone pops have been so violent. I installed mine the day I received it and it's so minor on mine I just sent it back in now. I would not even describe it as a pop on mine , it was more of a click. It would only happen if I shut the head unit down vs. turing the ignition off with the headunit still on. It did not happen every time I cycled the head unit , mabye 1 in 5 times. He said it's a one day turn around so I should have it back sometime next week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I have to admit he's been very easy to deal with to this point . Very cooperative
I have one in the "classifieds" that i have never powered on... i think i may take it to get it benched just to make sure that i'm not selling one that has an issue.
Jeep Build currently CALLED OFF...and that makes me a sad panda
These amps have had SO many fricking reported problems that it's ridiculous.
End caps shimmed with washers because the board it is too long? Resistors clipped? Jumpers that look like paperclips soldered on? Solder blobs that look like a monkey did the "post production modifications?" Excuse my french, but WHAT THE FUCK? I would lose my mind if a brand new from the manufacturer item showed up with the amount of jury rigging that these amps have had.
These amps have had SO many fricking reported problems that it's ridiculous.
End caps shimmed with washers because the board it is too long? Resistors clipped? Jumpers that look like paperclips soldered on? Solder blobs that look like a monkey did the "post production modifications?" Excuse my french, but WHAT THE FUCK? I would lose my mind if a brand new from the manufacturer item showed up with the amount of jury rigging that these amps have had.
I couldn't agree more! It's sad that this is going on with such a reputable builder.
MECA Judge for California
Team DIYMA, Zuki Audio, and Stereo Integrity member
For those unfamiliar with the saga... there are other posts on other boards about these problems and more with Zed/Mantz but I would consider these reputable, recent, and relevant.
I think it's sad that this has happened but I get the feeling that Zed/Mantz overstepped their ability/resources in trying to create these amps at this price point. They are simply under tested/designed and have marginal QC. The cheap fixes suggest to me that Zed/Mantz simply cannot afford to fix them properly. Sadly, his reputation is all he's got as a niche manufacturer and that's getting pissed away.
Just a follow up to my previous post since I installed the Leviathan in my other car today. I cycled the amp over 40 times and did not have any " pop " issues whatsoever. I just want to reiterate that I hope all ends well for all the affected buyers.
Just a follow up to my previous post since I installed the Leviathan in my other car today. I cycled the amp over 40 times and did not have any " pop " issues whatsoever. I just want to reiterate that I hope all ends well for all the affected buyers.
Just curious which batch was it? What's the serial number?
Just a follow up to my previous post since I installed the Leviathan in my other car today. I cycled the amp over 40 times and did not have any " pop " issues whatsoever. I just want to reiterate that I hope all ends well for all the affected buyers.
I'm very glad to hear that your amp doesn't seem to be one of the "problem amps." I hope that it continues to provide you with years of quality sound.
MECA Judge for California
Team DIYMA, Zuki Audio, and Stereo Integrity member
I just want to see pics of the melted speakers, and who wants to own up to replacing them.
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights...Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it..."Whoever must have written that document must have been as "crazy" as those OPPT guys. /sarcasm --- OPPT-IN folks.
I bought one of these amps back at the end of February and it's been sitting in the box since then as I'm still waiting on, of all things, a DASH KIT from Metra to be released (thought it was available when I started ordering parts only to later find out the web sites listing the kit didn't actually have them, nor were they even in production yet).
I came here today looking for other information but saw this thread on the Leviathan and I'm glad I read it. I certainly do *not* want to blow the speakers I bought for my system.
Being a newb to aftermarket car audio, how should I go about testing this before having it installed / connected to the speakers I want to use? I understand that it needs to be connected to some cheaper speakers just to see if the pop blows the speakers.
Also I have a question about this issue. It sounds like there's a common "popping" sound that's not damaging speakers, and then another, louder pop where speakers are getting fried. The original post on this thread leads me to believe that this destructive pop only occurs the first time the amp is fired up after install... or is it a recurring issue that would continually fry new speakers?
I just want to see pics of the melted speakers, and who wants to own up to replacing them.
Well, melted was not a good choice of words from me, frozen is more like it.
You cant see anything in a picture, it is just stuck-
membrane cannot move at all.
Too bad smells cant go thru the net, the speaker still smells like burned plastic
The original post on this thread leads me to believe that this destructive pop only occurs the first time the amp is fired up after install... or is it a recurring issue that would continually fry new speakers?
For my case, it wasn't a first time destructive pop. It fried my speakers after using it for a day. There wasn't any pop sound initially, but I heard some distortion from my midbass. The pop came on the 2nd day and when it came, it fried my speakers, no warning, ie, prior pop sounds.
The fried speakers had stiff cones, stuck and sounded "crispy" when I pressed on the cones. Can't tell for the tweeters as they are in the housing, but all fried speakers/tweeters smelt burnt.
yeah, a high current surge will fry pretty much any speaker in short order. this is a problem that should definitely never happen in audio amplifiers made in the last 20 years. i am surprised that the design / assembly has not been gone over with a fine tooth comb to find not only the culprit, but _any_ possible reason that MORE THAN ONE person has had a problem like this. again, steve is known for decades of he highest quality stuff! even if he disagrees and thinks the error rate is small or it's user error, he should be able to track down ANY potential issues, rectify them in a new(er) design and also post here to assuge our trepidations and keep his superlative reputation
Re: Zed Audio "Leviathan" my take on it....
Linear Mode
