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Old 10-17-2010   #1
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Default Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

So I think everyone knows that Pioneer decided to shitcan the Premier line and consolidate the top end offerings in the Stage 4 line. They introduced Stage 4 at CES, and of course most people on here are now familiar with the venerable DEX-P99RS deck. Unfortunately, the rest of the Stage 4 product lineup is virtually unknown. I’m sure releasing a ultra premium priced product in this economy has had an effect, but also Pioneer has done a seemingly piss poor job of promoting it, especially when it comes to the drivers. Frankly I would not be surprised if the Stage 4 line is discontinued, with the P99 becoming just the top deck in their standard product lineup.

So anyway, I’ve had the P99 deck for most of a year now, and I’ve been curious about how the drivers would perform with it. I happened upon a good deal on the 2-way component set and separate midrange and went ahead and pulled the trigger. Since there is so little information on these, I’ll try to be as detailed as thorough as I can be in my critique of them, but I will also take my time and form an opinion of them after extended listening, so if you’re expecting to read through and come to a conclusion in a few short posts, you might want to revisit this thread in a few weeks. Also, since they are new drivers, I want to allow for a break-in period.



I’ll also be upfront and state that while I am still learning much and I try to be a critical listener, I’m not heavily experienced when it comes to reviews, nor have I auditioned large numbers of high end/reference systems to become a well-seasoned evaluator. I’ll also avoid using gray descriptions (such as “airy”) and any technical phenomena that may occur that I don’t fully understand (like cone breakup, comb filtering, etc). I do plan on soliciting the opinions of experienced locals that can offer a more critical review of them, and I’ll publish their thoughts as they are available. I’ll also state that I’ve only briefly heard the preceding Premier PRS comps in an over the top show vehicle, where they frankly sounded like ass, so I won’t attempt to make any comparisons to them.

Enough chatter and on with the review…
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Old 10-17-2010   #2
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

The tweeters and midbass are a 2-way set, with passive crossovers, grilles, and mounting hardware/accessories. An instruction sheet is included, but due to its confusing multi-lingual layout and microscopic print, it’s a pain in the ass to read.

The published specs:
50w RMS, 200w peak
Nominal 4-ohm impedance
Frequency response: 25-35,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 89 dB

I plan to test these active, so the 2-way passive crossovers will not be reviewed. They look like the previous PRS crossovers, with +3/-3 db tweeter level control. The X-over frequency is 1.9khz. Here’s a pic.


Last edited by ISTundra; 10-17-2010 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 10-17-2010   #3
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

The 28mm soft dome tweeters physically look like the previous PRS tweets, except in all black.




The only published parameters are:
Revc (voice coil resistance): 6 Ohm
Levc (voice coil inductance): .02 mH

It comes with a few mounting cups/adapters and hardware, which I did not photograph. Here it is next to my favorite tweet, a HAT L1 Pro SE, which is similar in size.



In fact, with a little “shim tape” it fits nicely into the sail panels where the HAT tweets were located.


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Old 10-17-2010   #4
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

GREAT!!!

I am excited to hear some reviews on these speakers as I have been eyfucking them for awhile now as a possible alternative for my Quart Q's

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Old 10-17-2010   #5
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

The midbass is 6-3/4”. The cone material is a 3-layer fiber composite like the previous PRS midbass, and the surround is a microfiber/suede like material. All these no doubt mean hecka SQ. The frame, motor and neo magnet assembly are noticeably different. The frame feels very substantial, although the overall mass of the driver feels pretty light due to the neo magnet. The phase plug is gigantic. There are mounting adapter rings and hardware included.






The published parameters are:
Revc (voice coil resistance): 3 Ohm
Levc (voice coil inductance): .14 mH
Fs (free air resonance freq): 45hz
Zmax (max impedance): 56.5 ohm
Qms (mech. Q factor): 5.90
Qes (elec. Q factor): .54
Qts (total Q factor): .50
Vas(equivalent acoustic volume): .84 cu/ft
RMS (damping loss): .627 N.S/m
Mms (mechanical mass of cone): 14.1g
Cms (mechanical suspension compliance): 8.95E-04
BL (flux density): 4.91 T.m
Sd (piston area): 21.20 sq/in
Hvc: .20 in
Hag: .57 in
Displacement: .011 cu/ft
Magnet weight: 2.79 oz (possibly a manual typo?)

Here’s the published combined frequency response for the tweet & midbass:


Here it is next to two other baller midbasses, the venerable ScanSpeak 18W, and the newly released HAT L6 SE. The PRS has the same cone area as the others, even though they are touted as 7” drivers due to the larger mounting flange.


With new speaker baffles, these are going into the stock door location.
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Old 10-17-2010   #6
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Now to what most people are curious about, the TS-S062PRS 2-5/8” midrange. The cone looks to be of the same material as the midbass and the surround is rubber. The frame and motor assembly are pretty stout, with the non-removable grille integrated into the frame. There are mounting adapter rings, adhesive backed seals, but no mounting hardware. There is no dedicated manual for this, as all parameters and mounting details are included in the 2-way set manual.





The published specs:
15w RMS/60w peak, 50w RMS/200w peak with back chamber
Nominal 4-ohm impedance
Frequency response: 80-40,000 Hz, 100-40,000 hz with back chamber
Sensitivity: 85 dB

The published parameters are:
Revc (voice coil resistance): 3.3 Ohm
Levc (voice coil inductance): .07 mH
Fs (free air resonance freq): 145hz
Zmax (max impedance): 148.2 ohm
Qms (mech. Q factor): 9.40
Qes (elec. Q factor): .31
Qts (total Q factor): .30
Vas(equivalent acoustic volume): .01 cu/ft
RMS (damping loss): .225 N.S/m
Mms (mechanical mass of cone): 2.32g
Cms (mechanical suspension compliance): 5.19E-04
BL (flux density): 4.74 T.m
Sd (piston area): 3.55 sq/in
Hvc: .16 in
Hag: .22 in
Displacement: .002 cu/ft
Magnet weight: 1.43 oz

Here’s the published combined frequency response for the midrange. It looks like it could easily play 400hz to 5khz.


The midrange comes with a cup that bolts onto the rear. According to the manual, this cup increases the power handling and improves the musical transition of notes from low to mid. The cup bolts onto the rear of the magnet with a supplied screw, and has potted through speaker wire included, as well as a small amount of polyfill inside. There is also an angled mounting surface on the cup. The cup fits very snugly.




As far as location of the mids go, I plan on trialing them both in the kicks and on the dash near the pillars, although I’m not really a fan of pillar installs. I’ve already got about a week of listening time on these paired with the aforementioned HAT drivers, and the kick location sounds better and not so in your face like the dash/pillar does. My custom work install guy is out on uh… maternity leave right now, so for now I’m going to have to settle for a ghetto kick install using towels to help position and aim the mids, as shown below.

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Old 10-17-2010   #7
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

So this install is in an ’06 Tundra D-cab. The source unit is a DEX-P99RS. The tweets are powered off the 25w channels from a JL 500/5. The mids are powered off the 100w 500/5 channels. The midbass are running off an Arc KS125.4 mini, bridged to 250w per channel. A JL 10W3 in a stealthbox in the center console running off the 500/5 250w sub channel provides the low end response. I do have the JL amp’s 30hz subsonic filter on, as the small Stealthbox doesn’t allow the sub to play that low. There are no rear fill or other drivers in the mix.

This pic shows the location and relative proximity of all drivers to each other. I realize there are some location compromises here, but these are the locations I’m willing to live with. As mentioned, I will try the mid up on the dash as well.


I’ve never been crazy about the results from the auto-tune feature on the P99 unit, but I’m making a wild-assed assumption that maybe the auto-tune routine was optimized for these drivers, so for starters, I’m going to let auto-tune in auto network mode establish all filter points and TA/EQ adjustments. Doing so, it set filters as follows:

Sub-LP: 63hz
Low-BP: 63hz – 1.6khz
Mid-BP: 1.6khz – 8khz
High-HP: 8khz
All slopes are 12db. Left side driver levels are 2-3 db lower.

I’ll give this setup a few days before making manual adjustments. I’m open for comments, questions, and suggestions. Please be civil.

So there it all is. Now the audition begins…

Last edited by ISTundra; 10-17-2010 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 10-17-2010   #8
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Be sure to post a video

Those looks like very aesthetically appealing drivers, so I hope the sound is decent as well. Now that I have the FJ done for the time being, we should set up a time to meet up. I'm definitely interested in your review and your thoughts.
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Old 10-17-2010   #9
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

ISTundra,

Excellent pictures !

The review is great thus far.

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Old 10-17-2010   #10
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

enjoying the play by play.

looks like those mids are gonna be easy to stick just about anywhere.
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Old 10-17-2010   #11
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Subscribed. Very interested to hear your impressions considering the other drivers you own.
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Old 10-17-2010   #12
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

x2!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-18-2010   #13
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Damn! I just about forgot about these speakers. You're right, not much publicity for them.

Glad you got these & are sharing your thoughts.

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Old 10-20-2010   #14
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISTundra View Post
I’ve never been crazy about the results from the auto-tune feature on the P99 unit, but I’m making a wild-assed assumption that maybe the auto-tune routine was optimized for these drivers, so for starters, I’m going to let auto-tune in auto network mode establish all filter points and TA/EQ adjustments. Doing so, it set filters as follows:

Sub-LP: 63hz
Low-BP: 63hz – 1.6khz
Mid-BP: 1.6khz – 8khz
High-HP: 8khz
All slopes are 12db. Left side driver levels are 2-3 db lower.

I’ll give this setup a few days before making manual adjustments. I’m open for comments, questions, and suggestions. Please be civil.

So there it all is. Now the audition begins…
i'm very interested in your results & comments too

But those crossover frequencies are a bit ... suspect? strange? I know they are the result of an auto-tune, but it seems that auto-tune doesn't think you have a dedicated midrange Looks more like sub, woofer, tweeter and super-tweeter.

I'm only mentioning this because, one of the things we'll all be interested in ... is how low that little midrange can play Lots of reasons, including the possibility of a dedicated center-channel (as well as dash-mounted L/R midranges, of course).

So, is the TS-062PRS a midrange ... or a large-format tweeter?

'tis the question in my mind
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Old 10-20-2010   #15
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Wow those certainly look like great drivers. I really like how the basket wraps around the motot on the the midbass to prevent shifting.
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Old 10-20-2010   #16
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

I have been SERIOUSLY debating on buying these mid's for my wifes car at some point down the road as I am doing a build for her and want to do a 3way setup for her

Buy my stuff
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Old 10-21-2010   #17
 
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

You say there's no mounting hardware for the mids? According to Crutchfield there are supposed to be 8 hex head and 8 phillips head screws "in the box".

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Old 10-21-2010   #18
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

I have occasionally seen ODR drivers show up in build logs, so I was very interested in these when I saw them in the Crutchfield magazine (especially their price). I think your review is off to a great start - looking forward to hearing your impressions.

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Old 10-21-2010   #19
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

I'll be posting an update by the weekend, maybe tomorrow night.
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Old 10-21-2010   #20
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Tuned in.
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Old 10-23-2010   #21
 
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Tuned in also! That's some beautiful equipment you have there.
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Old 10-25-2010   #22
 
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Suspect fer sure. I made one pass with autotune and got exactly the same crossover
points and slopes and I'm using Hybrid L3 mids.that can play down to 300hz easily. Also the stage only extended from the left pillar to the right edge of the steering wheel.
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Old 10-26-2010   #23
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition



k im in
Attached Images
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Old 10-26-2010   #24
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

Anymore updates?
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Old 11-04-2010   #25
 
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Default Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition

this going to happen?
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