Oil based clay or Sound deadning?

[8675309]

What do you prefer?

I like sound deadning for the floors but love clay in the doors!

[RedGTiVR6]

I'm not sure you can use only one or the other in a solid install. Really, it's all about meshing a bunch of different products for your different needs.

[Fish Chris]

WTF is oil based clay ?

I might start to think I was the only one that didn't have a clue..... except for the fact that your post had only gotten 1 reply, for 87 views, in 2 days....

Peace,
Fish

[M1A1]

Non hardening modeling clay.

[Fish Chris]

Okay, and how is this stuff used ? What brands are popular for automotive sound deadening ? Cost ? Effectiveness compared to sheet deadeners ?

BTW, I surfed around for a little while and found very little about oil based clays for this purpose......

Hmmmm,
Fish

[DaleCarter]

Clay can be packed inside speaker pods for mass deadening

Check out Simplicityinsound pod builds

[hamburglar79]

I have only heard about using non-hardening modeling clay in small spaces, i.e. speakers "pods" and on the inside trim of your auto to weigh it down and stop viberations. I would give it a try but I am sick and tierd of taking off my inside door panels. Maybe for my trim around the HU or overhead displays/controls.

[RedGTiVR6]

considering the huge benefits, I would take off the panels again and apply....

we have 6 lbs in our kicks for our 5" subs and 4 lbs in our pillars for our 3" mids.

It's not only used in small pieces.

Our first sub enclosure had like 10 lbs of it used on the face of the enclosure.

[Hillbilly SQ]

Clay is a mess and there really isn't any place in my install where I could benefit from it. Afterall my truck gets treated like a truck and drives across gravel DAILY. There are also holes in the road that would make some cars scrape easily. And I'm not even going to get into my trips to Paron

[RedGTiVR6]

I'm not sure I understand this thought that clay is a mess.

We've been using is for years and have never run into a single issue. 117 degree days and it's never run, never melted, etc.

Not sure I understand this issue that everyone runs into....???

[8675309]

When I did my Morel CAW938's in the doors I used around 10lbs per door. You can purchase 15lbs on egay for $30 and it works. I also use around 5 lb's per kick panel on any kickpanel I use. Clay is the shiz

[kiranjoseph]

Ok here are a few questions from someone whos never used clay... which I'm sure will benefit others out there like me .... SO when u say you apply it (8 to 10 pounds of it) in tight enclosures, like the Kicks - doesnt this just fill out the entire enclosure??? Will you not be left with no room behind the speaker which means that the mid bass will end up really flat??? Am I missing something here? how do you guys apply this stuff and make it stick to the enclosure walls?

This info would be super useful since i'm in the middle of trying to figure out how to locate and stop some annoying vibration that I'm getting somewhere around / behind my mid driver. I have made an odd shaped fiberglass enclosure that is screwed directly onto my door panel. I have deadened the enclosure with 2 full tubes of silicone gel (inside and outside of the enclosure) and about a quarter inch of high density EVA foam. The enclosure is securely fastened to the door panel and has a layer of Silicone gel between itself and the door panel just for good measure. I have also used dynamat behind the door panel and around the window motor and stuff so that nothing moves!!!

So here is the problem,- The mid has this annoying vibration thats seems like its comming from right behind the driver at reasonably loud volumes (20 and above on my alpine 9887 with my amp gains at between half and 3/4) I'm using the passive crossover (the speakers are Polk SR 6500's) so I know that Im not driving frequencies that are too low. I was forced to set the amp crossover at around 80 or maybe more to eliminate this, but when I do this I lose most of my upfront bass and my soundstage gets pulled to the rear of my vehicle where the sub is. I have used the SR's full range before with the passive crossovers and had no problem playing it loud so I know its not the speakers. Infact when I lift the speaker from the enclosure - creating a gap between them; the vibration seems to disappear! I do know that Polk has recommended a minimal enclosure size of 0.4 cuFt, and my enclosure size is about 0.23 cuFt, but thats as big as I could possible go. Does anyone know if a smaller enclosure size would cause this crass-vibration effect on a mid driver??? Or is this a sound deadening issue???In which case I'm going to try out the clay option (See I finally got back to the topic of this thread ) Anyone who knows anything that can help; It will be much appreciated!!! thanks

Kiran

[kiranjoseph]

Ok here are a few questions from someone whos never used clay... which I'm sure will benefit others out there like me .... SO when u say you apply it (8 to 10 pounds of it) in tight enclosures, like the Kicks - doesnt this just fill out the entire enclosure??? Will you not be left with no room behind the speaker which means that the mid bass will end up really flat??? Am I missing something here? how do you guys apply this stuff and make it stick to the enclosure walls?

This info would be super useful since i'm in the middle of trying to figure out how to locate and stop some annoying vibration that I'm getting somewhere around / behind my mid driver. I have made an odd shaped fiberglass enclosure that is screwed directly onto my door panel. I have deadened the enclosure with 2 full tubes of silicone gel (inside and outside of the enclosure) and about a quarter inch of high density EVA foam. The enclosure is securely fastened to the door panel and has a layer of Silicone gel between itself and the door panel just for good measure. I have also used dynamat behind the door panel and around the window motor and stuff so that nothing moves!!!

So here is the problem,- The mid has this annoying vibration thats seems like its comming from right behind the driver at reasonably loud volumes (20 and above on my alpine 9887 with my amp gains at between half and 3/4) I'm using the passive crossover (the speakers are Polk SR 6500's) so I know that Im not driving frequencies that are too low. I was forced to set the amp crossover at around 80 or maybe more to eliminate this, but when I do this I lose most of my upfront bass and my soundstage gets pulled to the rear of my vehicle where the sub is. I have used the SR's full range before with the passive crossovers and had no problem playing it loud so I know its not the speakers. Infact when I lift the speaker from the enclosure - creating a gap between them; the vibration seems to disappear! I do know that Polk has recommended a minimal enclosure size of 0.4 cuFt, and my enclosure size is about 0.23 cuFt, but thats as big as I could possible go. Does anyone know if a smaller enclosure size would cause this crass-vibration effect on a mid driver??? Or is this a sound deadening issue???In which case I'm going to try out the clay option (See I finally got back to the topic of this thread ) Anyone who knows anything that can help; It will be much appreciated!!! thanks

Kiran

[trunks9_us]

Bump for this thread I am now interested in doing my whole entire door outer shell with clay someone answer the questions

[RedGTiVR6]

no - don't do your entire door in clay....that just wouldn't work out at all....

[trunks9_us]

Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

no - don't do your entire door in clay....that just wouldn't work out at all....

ygpm again

[RedGTiVR6]

The clay is used to add mass to the enclosure to reduce the possibility of resonances. Adding it to your doors is going about doing this in the wrong way. If you wanted to add it to the mounting baffle that would make more sense. It just doesn't make any sense to line an entire door with clay when you consider the property of clay and how it's going to have to be applied and how it's going to stick (or not going to stick) in a large vertical flat sheet.

[FoxPro5]

Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

I'm not sure I understand this thought that clay is a mess.

We've been using is for years and have never run into a single issue. 117 degree days and it's never run, never melted, etc.

Not sure I understand this issue that everyone runs into....???

Seriously. Me either. I see you're in Texas, too.

I'm a huge fan, have used several brands and varieties, have heated it up in the oven, and I can't make the stuff fail. What am I doing wrong here? Help, please.

[capnxtreme]

Originally Posted by trunks9_us

Bump for this thread I am now interested in doing my whole entire door outer shell with clay someone answer the questions

that poor 7000lb Corolla

[FoxPro5]

Originally Posted by capnxtreme

that poor 7000lb Corolla

I'll risk sounding like a critical a-hole to say that we need just as many "what NOT to do's" as "what TO do's" in this hobby, IMHAO. Like any other hobby where people really get into it, there's always those that get sucked into groupthink and drown in the process.

[kiranjoseph]

Originally Posted by 8675309

When I did my Morel CAW938's in the doors I used around 10lbs per door. You can purchase 15lbs on egay for $30 and it works. I also use around 5 lb's per kick panel on any kickpanel I use. Clay is the shiz

Hey could you give us a few insights as to how you go about using clay as a sound deadener? Do u just apply it straight onto the enclosure walls?? how does it stick and not peel off especially with all the turbulence in there created by the mid-driver. What kind do you use? Is it just regular stuff that we could get at an arts and crafts store?? Also could you take a look at my previous reply to this thread and shed some light if you could...thanks

[RedGTiVR6]

Originally Posted by FoxPro5

Seriously. Me either. I see you're in Texas, too.

I'm a huge fan, have used several brands and varieties, have heated it up in the oven, and I can't make the stuff fail. What am I doing wrong here? Help, please.

Using clay to deaden an entire door just isn't going about it the right way. there's a lot smarter ways of going about it.

Just use common sense when thinking about getting a 1/4" thick sheet of clay to stick to a vertical surface of a door for a few years.

If it's not making any sense then I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Using it in certain locations WITHIN the door makes sense, like on the mounting baffle, etc.

[FoxPro5]

Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

Using clay to deaden an entire door just isn't going about it the right way. there's a lot smarter ways of going about it.

Just use common sense when thinking about getting a 1/4" thick sheet of clay to stick to a vertical surface of a door for a few years.

If it's not making any sense then I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Using it in certain locations WITHIN the door makes sense, like on the mounting baffle, etc.

That was a double sarcastic on that, Jan. I was kidding.

My point is that NHMC works so well for me and costs so little I see it as fool proof and I don't understand the problems people have with it.

And as far as temperature and stickage goes, the oil-based clay that's behind and around my baffles in my door is pretty rock hard when it gets -25*F here. It's not going anywhere, not cracking, and not resonating (audibly that i can tell, anyway). And the variety of stuff I've used and reused for years hasn't failed me yet. Guess I'm a special boy.

[RedGTiVR6]

I'm not sure about the problems that people have with it either. A lot of people down here claim to have problems with it because of the heat. When it's 120 outside, its' easily 180+ in the car. Some people claim that the clay doesn't stick. I can see that absolutely being the case in a car door when applied to a large vertical surface like a door skin. However, in most cases where you would use it, I've not ever run into an issue with it.

What I'm getting is is that these guys that are wanting to use it to deaden an ENTIRE door are trying to apply it in the wrong manner. If, however, they wanted to apply it in their door to take care of a specific issue in a specific area, THEN it makes sense.

[FoxPro5]

Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

What I'm getting is is that these guys that are wanting to use it to deaden an ENTIRE door are trying to apply it in the wrong manner. If, however, they wanted to apply it in their door to take care of a specific issue in a specific area, THEN it makes sense.

Right, total a total coverage load-down isn't probably the best approach. But if I bought a new car today and needed to damp the driver mounting surface, I'd first hit it with an extensional VE damper like VB-2, smash down 3-4 lbs of NHMC placed strategically toward the center of the panel and near the driver, and then either hit it again with VB-2 or aluminum foil to seal the clay off.

And if you know for a fact your door will hit 180* F, then you need a synthetic clay like Alumilite. IMHO, mass begins where damping ends.....and your CLD mats are no bueno at those temps.