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Old 08-07-2012   #51
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordUno View Post
I'll take this on. I served and yes, lost a few friends, never got to fire my weapon in anger, and was 5 minutes from going downtown to Panama City,Rep. Of Panama, during Bush Sr. visit when I was down there (saw gunner on top of a duece and half on the 3rd vehicle if it would went down, luckily SS evac'ed him before we got the call).

First of all, when people talk trash about the military and I will quote them:

"Military is a welfare project"
"Military are murderers"

Both of these statements are false, why? I went in the .Mil in 1990 making 300 a month, I left the military make 2400 a month. We don't murderer people, we engage those that engage us (So, if you are carrying a weapon and take pop shots at us, don't get mad if you get engaged with something bigger than a bullet). Folks in the military do what Politicians say during conflicts, the rest of the time is spent training, family, forging the bond between units and it's members. If you have a problem then guess what, go to talk to your Politicians or use your Vote to make sure that we don't get involved in conflicts. Now, just keep in mind, that history has shown that isolationism is not good, but that is up to you to figure that out..

Now, about talking crap about the military, if you think we are bad or what not, how about signing the dotted line and see the crap that we have/had/do go thru and I promise you will understand why former .Mil and current .Mil act the way we do when folks that have never put on the uniform say things that are baseless and wrong.

BTW, ask a Vietnam vet how he felt when he came back. Or ask about how they feel about the new breed of veterans that they see on a daily..


I appologized to you for what you thought I was saying.

I would never spit on our soldiers or any of that viet nam shit.

Disliking the military system is not the same as disliking all men in uniform.

Your smarter than that.

I dislike the gov system , that doesn't mean I have a beef with federal workers.

All of this is compartmentalised. You deal with carrying out the actions. Your not actually in charge of policy.

2 different things.

Your confusing what I was saying.

As for people shooting at you in their country that is the most hypocritical nonsense I have heard.

Just what the fuck would you do if some foreign country rolled in uninvited by USA ?

Nothing ? My ass unless they had white flags.

Unless you or quality sound a former / current sec of defense or some shit then your confusing yourself with my intended comments.

Soldiers are not the "military industrial machine" of which I speak of.

And like I said. I have family in service or retired.

Everyone to a certain extent deserves respect.


The POTUS has never worn the uniform and he is responsible for the blood you guys spill

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #52
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by chad View Post
Holy fuck...

Holy fuck indeed.

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Old 08-07-2012   #53
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

Jax, I think you are confusing Military with Politicians. Military Machine are you saying Defense contractors? Because even then the ones you need to point your disagreements with are the politicians, not military personnel regardless of Rank.

BTW, I was stationed down in Panama, where sure we had removed Noriega and bashed a few PDFs, I got there 1yr a month after it happened, the following year, two .Mil in a .Mil vehicle were ambushed and one was murdered and the other had to be Evac'ed to the US to treat his wounds (2 years and almost 6 months since OP Just Cause happened). And btw, the culprit became a senator in Panama, even after US tried to prosecute him here. So tell me again how that is " the most hypocritical nonsense you have heard"?

If the US was invaded by a foreign country? Well let's see, that would mean that Guberment had failed their duty and the military would be engaged on US soil. Would I raise a white flag, HELL NO!!!! Though I did my time and got out, I still live by the oath of enlistment.

Yes, the POTUS is responsible for our blood, unfortunately, this current POTUS doesn't understand that..

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Old 08-07-2012   #54
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by Victor_inox View Post
Here we go again.... "go sigh a dotted line" argument. that's lame. life is not black and white,if not not with us you're against us mentality is what describe totalitarian regime. I'm not going to respect a person on a sole fact that person served in armed forces. should be a bit more to it.
Respect is earned, not given. regardless is your served or not, you have to earn respect and I believe those that have served should have earned their Respect, due to the blood, sweat, and tears that they have shared for the Great Nation.

Totalitarian regime, have you ever experienced that? Where every Government office is ran by the military? I have, trust me we are not their yet, but we're working on it.. except it's not the military, but DHS.

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Old 08-07-2012   #55
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by AccordUno View Post
Jax, I think you are confusing Military with Politicians. Military Machine are you saying Defense contractors? Because even then the ones you need to point your disagreements with are the politicians, not military personnel regardless of Rank.

BTW, I was stationed down in Panama, where sure we had removed Noriega and bashed a few PDFs, I got there 1yr a month after it happened, the following year, two .Mil in a .Mil vehicle were ambushed and one was murdered and the other had to be Evac'ed to the US to treat his wounds (2 years and almost 6 months since OP Just Cause happened). And btw, the culprit became a senator in Panama, even after US tried to prosecute him here. So tell me again how that is " the most hypocritical nonsense you have heard"?

If the US was invaded by a foreign country? Well let's see, that would mean that Guberment had failed their duty and the military would be engaged on US soil. Would I raise a white flag, HELL NO!!!! Though I did my time and got out, I still live by the oath of enlistment.

Yes, the POTUS is responsible for our blood, unfortunately, this current POTUS doesn't understand that..
So you think it's ok to question the President's leadership and action, but don't expect to have your own actions questioned?

You guys kill me with your liberal interpretation of respect.

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Old 08-07-2012   #56
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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So you think it's ok to question the President's leadership and action, but don't expect to have your own actions questioned?

You guys kill me with your liberal interpretation of respect.
Really, there was a time when US Presidents actually ask their president questions and critique them. No man or women that holds a political position is beyond reach. they are "supposed" to be the voice of the constituents.


Liberal interpretation of respect? Really, by asking someone to earn it. That's liberal? I think that has to do more or less with one's values.


Pointing out that the military is not the one to point fingers at, why is that wrong, does the military just decide to take action without civilian oversight? No they don't, it requires civilian oversight and decisions before they can proceed. Unlike a totalitarian nation, when the .Mil decides what is best for the populace..

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Old 08-07-2012   #57
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by AccordUno View Post
I'll take this on. I served and yes, lost a few friends, never got to fire my weapon in anger, and was 5 minutes from going downtown to Panama City,Rep. Of Panama, during Bush Sr. visit when I was down there (saw gunner on top of a duece and half on the 3rd vehicle if it would went down, luckily SS evac'ed him before we got the call).

First of all, when people talk trash about the military and I will quote them:

"Military is a welfare project"
"Military are murderers"

Both of these statements are false, why? I went in the .Mil in 1990 making 300 a month, I left the military make 2400 a month. We don't murderer people, we engage those that engage us (So, if you are carrying a weapon and take pop shots at us, don't get mad if you get engaged with something bigger than a bullet). Folks in the military do what Politicians say during conflicts, the rest of the time is spent training, family, forging the bond between units and it's members. If you have a problem then guess what, go to talk to your Politicians or use your Vote to make sure that we don't get involved in conflicts. Now, just keep in mind, that history has shown that isolationism is not good, but that is up to you to figure that out..

Now, about talking crap about the military, if you think we are bad or what not, how about signing the dotted line and see the crap that we have/had/do go thru and I promise you will understand why former .Mil and current .Mil act the way we do when folks that have never put on the uniform say things that are baseless and wrong.

BTW, ask a Vietnam vet how he felt when he came back. Or ask about how they feel about the new breed of veterans that they see on a daily..
Military is welfare, just not to the soldiers. People like sending you guys on wars so they can get big contracts and secure resources in other countries.

"Military are murders", well, i dont think the military is a "person", but i do think the presence of military(s) in iraq has caused 100,000 civilian non combatant deaths. Most probably arent from fire from members of the armed forces, but rather "collateral damage" from weapon strikes to kill insurgents.
Iraq Body Count

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Old 08-07-2012   #58
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by AccordUno View Post
Really, there was a time when US Presidents actually ask their president questions and critique them. No man or women that holds a political position is beyond reach. they are "supposed" to be the voice of the constituents.


Liberal interpretation of respect? Really, by asking someone to earn it. That's liberal? I think that has to do more or less with one's values.


Pointing out that the military is not the one to point fingers at, why is that wrong, does the military just decide to take action without civilian oversight? No they don't, it requires civilian oversight and decisions before they can proceed. Unlike a totalitarian nation, when the .Mil decides what is best for the populace..
So you went into the military and determined who did and didn't deserve your respect and treated them accordingly? Including your superiors? I doubt you did.

Regardless of if you think President Obama earned your respect, he's POTUS. If you were in the military, he'd be your superior. But he hasn't earned respect, according to you, therefore he shouldn't be respected.

This is what I mean by a liberal interpretation of respect, not a political ideology.

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Old 08-07-2012   #59
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordUno View Post
Jax, I think you are confusing Military with Politicians. Military Machine are you saying Defense contractors? Because even then the ones you need to point your disagreements with are the politicians, not military personnel regardless of Rank.

BTW, I was stationed down in Panama, where sure we had removed Noriega and bashed a few PDFs, I got there 1yr a month after it happened, the following year, two .Mil in a .Mil vehicle were ambushed and one was murdered and the other had to be Evac'ed to the US to treat his wounds (2 years and almost 6 months since OP Just Cause happened). And btw, the culprit became a senator in Panama, even after US tried to prosecute him here. So tell me again how that is " the most hypocritical nonsense you have heard"?

If the US was invaded by a foreign country? Well let's see, that would mean that Guberment had failed their duty and the military would be engaged on US soil. Would I raise a white flag, HELL NO!!!! Though I did my time and got out, I still live by the oath of enlistment.

Yes, the POTUS is responsible for our blood, unfortunately, this current POTUS doesn't understand that..

no I was not confused. I stated many times soldiers were not whom I was talking about.

the people making decisions can be the politicians or people like Panetta who is s till in military but is now bought and paid for. He should have been arrested for telling congress the military would answer to NATO and "maybe" inform congress what NATO wants them to do. same with the POTUS.

regardless. I was talking about the ones that sit somewhere safe and give orders and send you guys off. it was pretty clear. and its not just politicians..its bankers and corporations pulling strings.


the US is going to have NATO troops on our soil sooner or later unless something changes it. mark my words.


When that happens you will want to shoot them as well just like others do when we are rolling in our tanks in their lands. that was my point. I have no idea how what you said was even remotely the same

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #60
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by AccordUno View Post
Respect is earned, not given. regardless is your served or not, you have to earn respect and I believe those that have served should have earned their Respect, due to the blood, sweat, and tears that they have shared for the Great Nation.

Totalitarian regime, have you ever experienced that? Where every Government office is ran by the military? I have, trust me we are not their yet, but we're working on it.. except it's not the military, but DHS.

DHS is the federal government. they are out of control. they think they control every single aspect of our lives. All in the name of security...

security from what? that is the question. suddenly in less than month we have people running around killing people just when they want to start taking our guns .


statistically your DOCTOR is more dangerous than a terrorist threat. In other words your more likely to die from doctor than terrorist. I will have to post that video.

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #61
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

I personally do not think we should have a president in office who has not served in military. Either that or we take away any power for him to wage war without congressional approval

the current POTUS bypassed congress to go to Libya even though it was not called a war. we did put troops on ground and we did supply AL with weapons. we might as well called it a war. semantics.

regardless he said it was under command of NATO and he didnt need congress to aprove it.


that needs to be out of his hands as he doesnt have the qualifications to do so. anyone here on this forum is just as qualified for that decision as he is.

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #62
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Originally Posted by Victor_inox View Post
what pisses me off is that somehow you assumed that people who said anything bad about military don't deserved to be heard because they haven't served. So everything is tiptop huh?
It depends on the subject. Of you haven't served and want to tell me
about the "inner-workings" of the military then no, you don't deserve to be heard.

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Old 08-07-2012   #63
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
I personally do not think we should have a president in office who has not served in military. Either that or we take away any power for him to wage war without congressional approval

the current POTUS bypassed congress to go to Libya even though it was not called a war. we did put troops on ground and we did supply AL with weapons. we might as well called it a war. semantics.

regardless he said it was under command of NATO and he didnt need congress to aprove it.


that needs to be out of his hands as he doesnt have the qualifications to do so. anyone here on this forum is just as qualified for that decision as he is.
Agreed

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Old 08-07-2012   #64
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Vietnam ? Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag which got us into it.
Or that the French abandoned the south Koreans and would have been overrun by the north if not for US intervention.


Quote:
First gulf war? Hussein might have actually deserved that.
We were invited by the king of Saudi Arabia to help defend the Kingdom.

Quote:
Iraq? Again Halliburton and his buddies made tons of blood money.
You REALLY think that's why we went in? So Halliburton could get paid?

Quote:
The last 4 conflicts since Iraq were planned out by the USA on purpose to overthrow leaders who were not playing ball with the rulers. We were not drawn in.


Geopolitics is an ugly secret.

Iran ? We may never find out since it will be end of us all if we go to war with china and Russia.

Make no mistake we are the most aggressive country in the world.
We are the most requested aggressor in the world. Anytime anyone wants anything done, a country policed, etc they ask us. It sucks but it's cuz we're the best.

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Old 08-07-2012   #65
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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It depends on the subject. Of you haven't served and want to tell me
about the "inner-workings" of the military then no, you don't deserve to be heard.
Of course it depend on the subject, like everything else in this life. and I have served and haven't said one thing bad about people in uniform, have you noticed?

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Old 08-07-2012   #66
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Did I say they were forced to take something?

I said they were pumped full of it but I was actually talking about prescriptions and shots. The shots and exposure to DU would have been involuntary.

The pills would be voluntary.

I never said they were forced. I said they were getting from the military. The military knows the problems and yet they continue to aid in the problem.

If it were a civil matter I would get charged with murder if I gave someone pills and they went bezerk.

The drugs do not have to be abused in order to cause ill effects .

Anti smoking prescription drugs cause some to be suicidal and have other issues while following the directions.

You told me military didn't do it. You were wrong.

My statement as it referred to original topic just implied I don't put anything past a former or current military because of what they had been through.

Nothing to do with conspiracy. The drugs cause problems. They are given to soldiers with issues. It's fact. Not a conspiracy.

I didn't say anything conspiracy like pertaining to the drugs except some of the famous killers were doped up. Or dead.
Since when has "pumped full of" EVER even implied anything other than an involuntary action?

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Old 08-07-2012   #67
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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We are the most requested aggressor in the world. Anytime anyone wants anything done, a country policed, etc they ask us. It sucks but it's cuz we're the best.
When the money starts running dry... how will we be ranked then? Eventually it will run out. Endless wars funded by tax payers and profited from by Military Contractors.
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Old 08-07-2012   #68
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Well ask the Kurds if the weapons existed...or maybe you think the Kurds are a fictional people fabricated by the CIA
Why is this question always the answer to the question of WMD's? Not like anyone every really gave a shit about the Kurds until it was a convenient excuse to try and justify / validate a war started by their preferred political affiliation. That shit is just tired.

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Old 08-07-2012   #69
 
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

Sikh Temple Shooting Questions Arise : Personal Liberty Alerts
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Old 08-07-2012   #70
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Since when has "pumped full of" EVER even implied anything other than an involuntary action?
really it was just an expression. you have to continue to bring it up AFTER I clarified all that i meant?

now your being picky. I explained what I was talking about and then proved it was being given.

you cant say all of the people taking it are abusing it , some might be but not all.

the point is that they are being given it and it does effect people in some cases negatively.



as for people not in the service not knowing anything that is not exactly true. people making policy are not always experienced in actual service but yet you guys have to follow what they decide

lots of info from lots of sources out there.


military is compartmentalized just like any other giant company. people in different groups do not always know what is going on or why. they know what they need to know in order to do their job.

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #71
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Since when has "pumped full of" EVER even implied anything other than an involuntary action?
porn movies have that all the time..what are you talking about?

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #72
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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When the money starts running dry... how will we be ranked then? Eventually it will run out. Endless wars funded by tax payers and profited from by Military Contractors.

maybe GE will pay for it since they get off on their tax bill.

I think its a little silly not to acknowledge all the money that has been made in the takeover of Iraq.

I think someone has made a shit pile of it taking over Libya as well..tons of gold vanished. and the place is a disaster zone...yeah..they begged for us to come over and fuck their world all to shit.

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #73
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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Why is this question always the answer to the question of WMD's? Not like anyone every really gave a shit about the Kurds until it was a convenient excuse to try and justify / validate a war started by their preferred political affiliation. That shit is just tired.
I have to agree . when I was aGWB supporter I had no idea who the kurds where until it started being used as an excuse.

well...what about Africa ? what about all the genocide thats gone on over their forever?

oh wait...that is on the agenda..I sorry..I must be patient. 2013 they will take care of that.

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #74
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Default Re: temple shooter former military


here let me post up a piece of that so those who never click shit might see...

During his military service, Page reportedly received basic training in Fort Sill, Okla., moved to Fort Bliss in Texas and finished at Fort Bragg, N.C. From 1992 until 1998 he served as a member of the Army’s Psychological Operations Unit, according to military documents.

According to an Army field manual from 2005, the unit’s primary function is to convey selected information to influence a population’s emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups and individuals.

The manual states:

The purpose of PSYOP is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to U.S. national objectives. PSYOP are characteristically delivered as information for effect, used during peacetime and conflict, to inform and influence. When properly employed, PSYOP can save lives of friendly and adversary forces by reducing the adversaries’ will to fight. By lowering adversary morale and reducing their efficiency, PSYOP can also discourage aggressive actions and create dissidence and disaffection within their ranks, ultimately inducing surrender. PSYOP provide a commander the means to employ a nonlethal capability across the range of military operations from peace through conflict to war and during postconflict operations.

Speculation remains that Page exhibited some of the same disturbing psychological markers that have been associated with Holmes, and there are questions of whether pharmaceutical drugs were involved in the temple shooting.

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
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Old 08-07-2012   #75
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Default Re: temple shooter former military

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O

We are the most requested aggressor in the world. Anytime anyone wants anything done, a country policed, etc they ask us. It sucks but it's cuz we're the best.
Show me one document when 'they" asked us to invade their country. I do remember one when former soviet republic of Georgia asked Nato to take care of Russian "invasion" what happened then? it was played like nothing happened.Fix news showed short report and thats it. who else invited us to invade them, Kosovo- nope, Afghanistan? nope again. iraq- don't think so. So, who is it?

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