Australia votes down Climate bill.

[cubdenno]

BBC News - Australian Senate rejects Kevin Rudd's climate plan

[Luke352]

Been a great couple of days in Politics over here, I'm quite happy. They finally got rid of that idiot Turnbull, and got someone better (Abbot, though Hockey would've been better) in place to lead the Coalition (Liberals), and our Senate had the sense to vote down the ETS, I'm not against reducing Carbon Footprint, but an ETS is a terrible way to acheive it and just puts a totally unbearable strain on a countries economy. This is the only thing I've been satisfied with in politics here since before that drop kick K Rudd got voted in. Our current Labor Government is about the most useless Government Australia has had in the last 20 odd years, they've done nothing and acheived nothing.

[Spasticteapot]

Quit kvetching. At least you're not....well, us.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by Spasticteapot

Quit kvetching. At least you're not....well, us.

Yeah, you wisconsin guys have it rough

[cubdenno]

Cap and trade is something our government is trying to pass. Glad to see Australia didn't jump on the bandwagon. Makes one wonder if those hacked and released emails have had something to do with it.

[Luke352]

Originally Posted by cubdenno

Cap and trade is something our government is trying to pass. Glad to see Australia didn't jump on the bandwagon. Makes one wonder if those hacked and released emails have had something to do with it.

Maybe but we've actually got a new political party starting up, who have been exposing some of the myths around Global Warming and showing the ETS for what it really is (one big tax with almost no real impact).

The Climate Sceptics - The world's first up-front political party representing climate sceptics. The front page has a link to resources which has PowerPoints on it that make good reading.

[freemind]

Originally Posted by Luke352

Been a great couple of days in Politics over here, I'm quite happy. They finally got rid of that idiot Turnbull, and got someone better (Abbot, though Hockey would've been better) in place to lead the Coalition (Liberals), and our Senate had the sense to vote down the ETS, I'm not against reducing Carbon Footprint, but an ETS is a terrible way to acheive it and just puts a totally unbearable strain on a countries economy. This is the only thing I've been satisfied with in politics here since before that drop kick K Rudd got voted in. Our current Labor Government is about the most useless Government Australia has had in the last 20 odd years, they've done nothing and acheived nothing.

Politicians rely on peoples short memory. A great band from your country has a song of that name.........................

[chad]

LOL, men at work?

[Mooble]

"Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."

Oh yeah, lemme tell you! Australia is just REAPING in the benefits! Look at all those bumper crops they've been having. Last time I checked Australia was knee-deep in the worst drought in recorded history.

Carbon is good for plants. Yes. Last time I checked, there ain't no trees above 9000 feet. Increased carbon in the upper atmosphere is NOT GOOD for humans.

Bloody geniuses they are!

[cubdenno]

droughts happen. look at the ones that have hit the US. The increases CO2 has been found to be benefiting the U.S. crop production.

[SoundChaser]

Originally Posted by cubdenno

droughts happen. look at the ones that have hit the US. The increases CO2 has been found to be benefiting the U.S. crop production.

And lung cancer..
I love the smell of CO2 early in the morning, especially from buses in NYC.

[cubdenno]

Dude, CO2 does not cause lung cancer.

[cubdenno]

Originally Posted by SoundChaser

And lung cancer..
I love the smell of CO2 early in the morning, especially from buses in NYC.

Remember, you exhale CO2.

I think you mean CO

[chad]

that was epic in my mind

[cubdenno]

Wanted to be an ass but resisted the call.

[chad]

The animals.. they give me lung cancer. no need to quit smoking now!

[lilmsprelude]

Don't ya just LOVE The internet!
Look at all the GREAT Information that is out there. And most of it is without bias!!!

Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas, yet very toxic to humans and animals. It consists of one carbon atom and one oxygen atom, connected by a covalent double bond and a dative covalent bond. It is the simplest oxocarbon, and is an anhydride of formic acid.
Carbon monoxide is a product of combustion of organic matter with insufficient oxygen supply and is often produced in domestic or industrial settings by motor vehicles and other gasoline-powered tools, heaters, and cooking equipment. Exposures at 100 ppm or greater can be dangerous to human health.


Carbon dioxide (chemical formula CO2) is a chemical compound composed of two oxygen atoms covalently bonded to a single carbon atom. It is a gas at standard temperature and pressure and exists in Earth's atmosphere in this state. CO2 is a trace gas being only 0.038% of the atmosphere.
Carbon dioxide is used by plants during photosynthesis to make sugars, which may either be consumed in respiration or used as the raw material to produce other organic compounds needed for plant growth and development. It is produced during respiration by plants, and by all animals, fungi and microorganisms that depend either directly or indirectly on plants for food. It is thus a major component of the carbon cycle. Carbon dioxide is generated as a by-product of the combustion of fossil fuels or the burning of vegetable matter, among other chemical processes. Small amounts of carbon dioxide are emitted from volcanoes and other geothermal processes such as hot springs and geysers and by the dissolution of carbonates in crustal rocks.

Greenhouse gases are gases in an atmosphere that absorb and emit radiation within the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse effect.[1] The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone. In our solar system, the atmospheres of Venus, Mars and Titan also contain gases that cause greenhouse effects. Greenhouse gases greatly affect the temperature of the Earth; without them, Earth's surface would be on average about 33 °C (59 °F) colder than at present.
In order, Earth's most abundant greenhouse gases are:

water vapor, which contributes 36–72%
carbon dioxide, which contributes 9–26%
methane, which contributes 4–9%
ozone, which contributes 3–7%
nitrous oxide
CFC's

72% + 26% + 9% + 7 % = 114% ???????

__________________

That's the problem with all these Green Earth, tree hugging, granola crunchin hippy followers.... They arent educated --they have their heads shoved so far up their fearless leader ass -- Al Gore -- That they don't "have" to think.


/me doesn't mind being a bit bitchy!


Australlia has always looked like a great place to live. +1 for THINKING people!

[BoostedNihilist]

72% + 26% + 9% + 7 % = 114% ???????

see fox pie graph

[Mooble]

Originally Posted by lilmsprelude

water vapor, which contributes 36–72%
carbon dioxide, which contributes 9–26%
methane, which contributes 4–9%
ozone, which contributes 3–7%
nitrous oxide
CFC's

72% + 26% + 9% + 7 % = 114% ???????

Um, those are ranges. Where's the problem?

I love the mentality of people. Ok, so let's say the Earth doesn't appreciably warm up. What's the harm? We live in a more efficient society. It will cost us some productivity, but life pretty much goes on as normal.

Now let's take the other side. Oops! The tree huggers were right, but now it's too late to reverse the changes. Entire nations are now underwater. We didn't actually need those forests anyway. Sorry guys, next time will be more proactive.

Go along with the tree huggers. If they are wrong you can point and laugh at them. No harm done. If we go along with the bury-our-head-in-the-sand crowd and they are wrong, millions of people are fucked.

Not a hard call for me.

Originally Posted by lilmsprelude

Australlia has always looked like a great place to live. +1 for THINKING people!

Lived there. Not sure you'd agree if you had.

[chefhow]

Global warming is right up there with GMO's, Organic and the SloFood Movement. They are all just scare tactics used to steer uneducated, weak minded sheep in a certain direction to help a political cause.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by lilmsprelude

Don't ya just LOVE The internet!
Look at all the GREAT Information that is out there. And most of it is without bias!!!

Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas, yet very toxic to humans and animals. It consists of one carbon atom and one oxygen atom, connected by a covalent double bond and a dative covalent bond. It is the simplest oxocarbon, and is an anhydride of formic acid.
Carbon monoxide is a product of combustion of organic matter with insufficient oxygen supply and is often produced in domestic or industrial settings by motor vehicles and other gasoline-powered tools, heaters, and cooking equipment. Exposures at 100 ppm or greater can be dangerous to human health.


Carbon dioxide (chemical formula CO2) is a chemical compound composed of two oxygen atoms covalently bonded to a single carbon atom. It is a gas at standard temperature and pressure and exists in Earth's atmosphere in this state. CO2 is a trace gas being only 0.038% of the atmosphere.
Carbon dioxide is used by plants during photosynthesis to make sugars, which may either be consumed in respiration or used as the raw material to produce other organic compounds needed for plant growth and development. It is produced during respiration by plants, and by all animals, fungi and microorganisms that depend either directly or indirectly on plants for food. It is thus a major component of the carbon cycle. Carbon dioxide is generated as a by-product of the combustion of fossil fuels or the burning of vegetable matter, among other chemical processes. Small amounts of carbon dioxide are emitted from volcanoes and other geothermal processes such as hot springs and geysers and by the dissolution of carbonates in crustal rocks.

Greenhouse gases are gases in an atmosphere that absorb and emit radiation within the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse effect.[1] The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone. In our solar system, the atmospheres of Venus, Mars and Titan also contain gases that cause greenhouse effects. Greenhouse gases greatly affect the temperature of the Earth; without them, Earth's surface would be on average about 33 °C (59 °F) colder than at present.
In order, Earth's most abundant greenhouse gases are:

water vapor, which contributes 36–72%
carbon dioxide, which contributes 9–26%
methane, which contributes 4–9%
ozone, which contributes 3–7%
nitrous oxide
CFC's

72% + 26% + 9% + 7 % = 114% ???????

__________________

That's the problem with all these Green Earth, tree hugging, granola crunchin hippy followers.... They arent educated --they have their heads shoved so far up their fearless leader ass -- Al Gore -- That they don't "have" to think.


/me doesn't mind being a bit bitchy!


Australlia has always looked like a great place to live. +1 for THINKING people!

You really showed your fantastic thinking abilities there. Well done.

[lilmsprelude]

EXACTLY.. Ranges, and VAST ones at that, because no ONE truly understands the Bullshit Science that these idiots keep shoveling down your gullible necks!


The way our country, government, is feeding itself and screwing the American Citezen, I think I could suffer living in a country controlled by a monarchy. This way you have ONE person to blame for screwing up, instead of a president who takes no responsibility, Backed by a senate and congress that do the same with extreme prejudice and Greed!

Monarchies have succeeded for Centuries,
While our beloved Democracy is in the shitter with no hopes of recovering.

*I had started writing a HUGE rebuttal, and was referencing some sources, and found this page. Even tho I am FAR from being so easily defined as a liberal (or Conservitive for that matter) this web page says it SOOOO Much better than I.

[Mooble]

Originally Posted by chefhow

They are all just scare tacticsused to steer uneducated, weak minded sheep in a certain direction to help a political cause.

I really wish someone would do a study to compare education level, IQ, or any other gauge of intelligence of those who believe in global warming vs those who don't. Somehow I think it would fantastically undermine your assertion.

[lilmsprelude]

Originally Posted by Neil

You really showed your fantastic thinking abilities there. Well done.

Yes, Yes I did, Specifically my creative ability to think rationally and collect and compose information to better suit my educational purposes and goals.

Your point is?

[Mooble]

Originally Posted by lilmsprelude

The way our country, government, is feeding itself and screwing the American Citezen, I think I could suffer living in a country controlled by a monarchy. This way you have ONE person to blame for screwing up, instead of a president who takes no responsibility, Backed by a senate and congress that do the same with extreme prejudice and Greed!

Monarchies have succeeded for Centuries,
While our beloved Democracy is in the shitter with no hopes of recovering.

*I had started writing a HUGE rebuttal, and was referencing some sources, and found this page. Even tho I am FAR from being so easily defined as a liberal (or Conservitive for that matter) this web page says it SOOOO Much better than I.

America is not a democracy.

Let me repeat. America is not a democracy. We are a republic. Your leaders are not legally obligated to vote the way you like. For that matter, the electoral college isn't even legally obligated to vote for your choice for President.

Our country doesn't work because we don't want it to work. It is perfectly engineered to protect the status quo because people inherently don't want change. America is a country of special interests who duke it out for their slice of the pie, regardless of what it does to anyone else. America is not the problem. Our leaders are not the problem. YOU are the problem (me too for that matter).

We live in the perfect county! Our government ensures that your ridiculous assertions will never become policy over me. It also saves you from my tyrannical statutes. Together we are fucked and that's the way we want it or it wouldn't be that way.

Originally Posted by lilmsprelude

EXACTLY.. Ranges, and VAST ones at that, because no ONE truly understands the Bullshit Science that these idiots keep shoveling down your gullible necks!

No, they are ranges because the amounts vary greatly from area to area. If you launch a weather balloon you can get an exact amount at any altitude you want, but it is only applicable for one space in one moment in time.