As I stated earlier, I believe MTX, Kicker, and Linear power did something similar back in the day. Of course, now it is all making sense as to why these brands had a cult following.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
This forum is full of mature adults. Rather than bash people for their opinions, everyone either agrees or disagrees in a rational way and backs up their opinions with facts. I have learned quite a bit from this forum even from people with differing opinions. Please keep this information coming.
I personally feel they "jumped the shark" in 1997-1998 when they started marketing everything.
Previously, their bread and butter was amps and subs. Two series: Punch and Power. All fine and good. Some time earlier they were putting out midranges, midbass, and tweeters. All fine and good... I guess you can miniaturize a sub and turn it into a midbass.
Then they started selling head units. IIRC, they were rebadged Denon units. OK...
Then, they started selling all manner of wiring, distribution blocks, batteries, and other miscellaneous and sundry installation accessories. It was a bad move. They lost focus on their core products: amps and subs.
I remember one of the Punch 150s that I was running in 1989 or 1990. It was professionally installed, and kept blowing fuses. Even though I was at 4 ohms stereo, Rockford Fosgate's response was to keep putting a bigger fuse. Well, the amplifier ended up burning itself up pretty bad, as in a mini fire. RF was good about it though because they replaced it under warranty.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
Actually Rockford was selling speakers for a very long time. At least back into the later 80's. In fact they bought the company that used to make them for them, Carbonneau.
They sold headunits long before the Denon ones. I believe they were made by Delco, or at least originally they were.
I changed because I wanted to run two 4 channel amps for my front 3ways active, and a sub....I couldnt do that with the t600.2 I tried out the soundstream ref amps.....(they are awesome by the way) I find the overall sq better with the new ones..... just me? who cares! its what I think. I used a bunch of the old ones...... I can tell you this, I ran the old school punch on 8 8s and it was insane....I am pretty sure the amp was glowing but it was awesome! On a set of comps........No thanks.....In all fairness though I was always running some seriously high end gear back in the days though.
Lemme see if I understand you right.......you went from McIntosh amps to the new Soundstream Reference amps to Rockford Fosgate? Jensen here we come? I'm just sayin' lol.
No I went from Mcintosh to Rockford to Soundstream....I still have some of all them.... Besides whats your point? I switched for power reasons to fit what ever I was running at the time and to try out new things.... I like to actually own something before I run my mouth about it. Unlike most. The only reason why I prefer the mcintosh over anything else I have used is because I have had some of them for 15yrs and never any issues at all. They were good "investments" as far as power, sound etc....I really like the new rockford amps, as well as the new soundstream reference amps... I look at them as steps sideways not up or down. The comparison to jenson is just ignorant. But you might as well join that club based on some of the people running there mouth on here and a few other threads..... These threads always end up useless pretty much overnight. Do you have anything of worth to add?
No I went from Mcintosh to Rockford to Soundstream....I still have some of all them.... Besides whats your point? I switched for power reasons to fit what ever I was running at the time and to try out new things.... I like to actually own something before I run my mouth about it. Unlike most. The only reason why I prefer the mcintosh over anything else I have used is because I have had some of them for 15yrs and never any issues at all. They were good "investments" as far as power, sound etc....I really like the new rockford amps, as well as the new soundstream reference amps... I look at them as steps sideways not up or down. The comparison to jenson is just ignorant. But you might as well join that club based on some of the people running there mouth on here and a few other threads..... These threads always end up useless pretty much overnight. Do you have anything of worth to add?
I have this of worth to add....head to the store and buy your ass a sense of freaking humore dude...pull them panties out of the bunch they're in. Geez, notice the lol or do you need a smiley to sense sarcasm with McIntosh, SS Ref & Jensen being mentioned together? IT WAS A JOKE MAN.
My B. sorry, yes a smiley would be nice! There are so many jackasses on here that do try and make that comparison I get a little frustrated!
No, I actually thoroughly enjoyed your review of the reference amps in the other thread. I didn't bother to post because I am going with a 5 channel on this current build and will probably be trying the Rubicon series. The GTO has a Davinci, the truck has the Van Gogh 500.4, and the Camry (budget build) will have the Rubicon. I'm tempted to try the damn reference anyways & add a subamp lol.
At the end of the day there are so many good amps, I base my pyramid of quality (not the company by investment.....what am I going to get for more $ whether its sq, features, power, size, etc....when you get to the retail of the rockford power, soundstream ref....I think its about what is going to fit your situation better based on the above....the quality is going to be relatively = in my opinion... Just like if I spend quite a bit more on mcintosh, zapco, brax, tru, etc.... I think those are going to be relatively = to each other as well, I think at that point for me....I am paying for the best possible compenents to give me the longest amount of use etc..... not that the others do not last forever either but I have never heard of a mcintosh or zapco brax etc... failing without someone doing something insanely stupid...I am sure it happens but I bet the ratio is much less. To me thats worth the money. I am someone that does believe that not all amps sound the same, I know its an on going dispute, its like religion I suppose.... I am not saying all those amps sound the same, in fact I dont think any of them sound bad, (ones mentioned) I just make sure they fit the overall plan in my system at the time.. I will say for a 2 channel amp that sounds pretty smooth and has so much effortless power, its really hard to beat (if at all) a t600.2. I love most old school stuff but I do find in a good amount of cases that some of the newer versions are better then the old... I would take my new ss ref over an older one any day of the week without a second thought.... same goes for rockford..... I owned and loved both but prefer the newer versions as different as they may be from the originals.... It sounds/looks like phoenix is making a great leap towards the new ti line and could be interesting to see if its a step near the older ones.... I have a feeling they are going to be from what I read and the pics I saw. They have only been working on new products for 4months and the ti amps were priority #1. A lot of there other stuff is pretty much the same for right now.... That should be intersting when they start hitting the shelves....but just like the ss, rockford, ppi etc.... there are going to be the people that just refuse to give it a shot/admit anything pos. about it.... and judge a product soley by the mother company....I will say that the ss ref amps made me a believer that its possible... If a company that has the reputation they have (not great or good) can make something like the ref amp I think others can make it happen as well.... They are damn fine amps regardless of who bought them, and what price they are!
I was completely wrong in my assessment of new school Rockford Fosgate in all areas. In my opinion now, the new stuff is better than the older stuff made. However, there is a special place for the older stuff but it is going to remain in the past.
Maybe their image will change now that they have severed their ties with Best Buy. I remember a point in time when the Best Buy items were different than the typical Rockford Fosgate amplifiers sold at the custom shops. Then it changed, and Best Buy carried the same Punch amplifiers that the custom shops had, but, never had the power line.
As for new versus old, there is still a special place in my heart for the pre-HD Punch 45/75/150 and the power 300/650/1000 from the good old days. In fact, the first major setup I ever saw was owned by one of my uncle's friends, in 87 or 88. He had a Power 1000 running some of those cast frame JBL 6x9 speakers and JBL subs in the rear of his Bronco. Up front he had some ADS gear along with a Nakamichi tape deck and a couple of Nakamichi crossovers in his dash. He used welding leads to run power/ground for the big daddy. I remember riding up and down the Panama City Beach strip in that Bronco with the top off rocking out to Tush by ZZ Top. Ahh, the good old days.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
As for new versus old, there is still a special place in my heart for the pre-HD Punch 45/75/150 and the power 300/650/1000 from the good old days. In fact, the first major setup I ever saw was owned by one of my uncle's friends, in 87 or 88. He had a power 1000 running some of those cast frame JBL 6x9 speakers and JBL subs in the rear of his Bronco. Up front he had some ADS gear along with a Nakamichi tape deck and a couple of Nakamichi crossovers in his dash. He used welding leads to run power/ground for the big daddy. I remember riding up and down the Panama City Beach strip in that Bronco with the top off rocking out to Tush by ZZ Top. Ahh, the good old days.
I have a hard time thinking of anything past the HD series as being "old school" which is a sign of my age. Like you, those pre-HD Punch amps still strike a chord with me. It was amazing the amount of bass you could get out of a pair of original Punch 10s and a Punch 45. Those tiny little amps sure had a big set of brass balls.
Imagine my surprise when I ordered a 25 to Life Punch 45 when they were first released, expecting an old-school revival. I couldn't find any dimensions for them before I ordered mine, so the size of the new amp was not a happy surprise. Don't get me wrong, that was a lot of amp, but it didn't bring back the old days. I think that's why those amps weren't a commercial success.
I like the cosmetics and performance of the recent high-gloss Punch and Power Series, and would probably have some displayed in my system if I weren't into stealth. I think they're possibly the best looking amps that RF has ever made, and they perform well. However, if RF had the guts, equipment, and employees to do an outright reissue of the original Punch 45, 75, and 150, I'd be camped out on the sidewalk to buy the first ones. Don't even mention the original Power 1000: I was too broke to buy one of the originals, and I'd still be dreaming about a reissue.
...and to see you're really only very small,
and life flows on within you and without you.... George Harrison
I have a hard time thinking of anything past the HD series as being "old school" which is a sign of my age. Like you, those pre-HD Punch amps still strike a chord with me. It was amazing the amount of bass you could get out of a pair of original Punch 10s and a Punch 45. Those tiny little amps sure had a big set of brass balls.
Imagine my surprise when I ordered a 25 to Life Punch 45 when they were first released, expecting an old-school revival. I couldn't find any dimensions for them before I ordered mine, so the size of the new amp was not a happy surprise. Don't get me wrong, that was a lot of amp, but it didn't bring back the old days. I think that's why those amps weren't a commercial success.
I like the cosmetics and performance of the recent high-gloss Punch and power Series, and would probably have some displayed in my system if I weren't into stealth. I think they're possibly the best looking amps that RF has ever made, and they perform well. However, if RF had the guts, equipment, and employees to do an outright reissue of the original Punch 45, 75, and 150, I'd be camped out on the sidewalk to buy the first ones. Don't even mention the original power 1000: I was too broke to buy one of the originals, and I'd still be dreaming about a reissue.
I agree with you. The punch 150, 75 and 45 were classics. These new amps will be classics too.
Certain old RF amps actually colored the sound and measured that way.
RF, Kicker, MTX, and Linear power were all known to do something similar to the above at one point in time.
This response graph is for a T500-2. This particular model was in production just a few years ago, therefore I certainly wouldn't consider it "old school". Rockfords philosophy was to intentionally provide this curve essentially to compensate for typical losses in the automotive enviornment, especially while driving. I may be wrong, but I believe they still employ this on their current amplifiers. I'm certainly not trying to say that this is wrong or a poor design, but I do get a kick out of it when I talk to people who have recently installed a newer RF amp and they claim that the bass and treble are much improved over older models. I'm a self proclaimed RF nut and 96-00 was also my favorite era of gear. I'm a fan of most of their products prior to and after this period, but I think the fact that since I was out of high shcool and making some real money to buy gear was the big reason for my love of the 96-00 era. I also remember that all of their amps in this era came with "birthsheets" and every new amp had a ruler flat freq response from 20-20k
It really depends who you talk to. Funny think tho is that the "barbeque" and "star trek" amps you described are precisely my favorite era of their amps 96-00 Some will say that they'll only run anything that's hd era. Some will only run amps that are pre hd. Some of the young pups are straight up new shcool, and that's fine There's one thing I'ld like to add tho. I started to notice a lot of problematic amps Back in 02, I believe it was 02 anyway possibly 01. This was when RF came out with the @2/@IV series. These were the black&grind "star trek" amps. These looked nearly identical to the prior models, the .2/.4 series. The .2 series were also "startrek" black&grind and other than the badge on the heatsink it was difficult to tell apart from the two model years. This, @2/@IV, era was when RF seemed to go mass production. This was right around the time when RF could be purchased from Crutchfield and BestBuy. This is just my personal experience and it might just be a coincidence, but the problems I was encountering did seem to coincide with them mass producing product. Interestingly tho, I never seemed to have a problem with the power series. Fastfoward a few years later and RF came out with the "T" series. I was VERY impressed with these amps. They had a large footprint, but man o man were they powerfull. Seemed like RF had gone back to there grassroots creating underrated brute amps. Sorry that was long winded, but like I said before.. It really depends on personal preference and a matter of opinion as to which are the bad-boy RF's.
FWIW:
~89-91= pre hd (45,75,150 power 650)
~92-93= hd era (45hd,75hd,150hd, 30hd, Power100hd ect.)
~94-96= DSM ix x2 era "barbeque" (40,60,100,200,160,240,400,250,500 ect.)
~97-99= .2/.4 era "startrek" (40.2,55.2,60.2,75.2,160.4,400.4,250.2,500.2ect)
~2000 = @2/@IV era "startrek" (600@4, 800@2,150@2,1000@2 ect.)
~2001 = "s" series (200s, 700s, intrduction of the "bd" amps 500bd,1500bd)
~2002 = newer s series plus Type RF..x1 x6 x7 ect.. and Limited edition amps ie. 45hd le 75hd le 150hd le & Power 1000 5 channel
This is strictly off the top of my head so I may be off sligthly with the dates. Please don't jump down my back if some of it is wrong. I think it's pretty close.
They moved overseas in 2008, Thailand to be exact. I am not saying that their quality is worse just very different, that's for sure. I know that in 2003, they had a lot of turnover in their engineering area. I can't put my finger on it.
Actually they decided to target a more consumer level market, as it is larger than the SQ and pro market. That's why things have gone down. The move to China is unrelated, the parts are the same (it's not like the IC's and processor chips weren't made in China the whole time.)
Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO ROCKFORD FOSGATE
Of course, now it is all making sense as to why these brands had a cult following.
by investment.....what am I going to get for more $ whether its sq, features, power, size, etc....when you get to the retail of the rockford power, soundstream ref....I think its about what is going to fit your situation better based on the above....the quality is going to be relatively = in my opinion... Just like if I spend quite a bit more on mcintosh, zapco, brax, tru, etc.... I think those are going to be relatively = to each other as well, I think at that point for me....I am paying for the best possible compenents to give me the longest amount of use etc..... not that the others do not last forever either but I have never heard of a mcintosh or zapco brax etc... failing without someone doing something insanely stupid...I am sure it happens but I bet the ratio is much less. To me thats worth the money. I am someone that does believe that not all amps sound the same, I know its an on going dispute, its like religion I suppose.... I am not saying all those amps sound the same, in fact I dont think any of them sound bad, (ones mentioned) I just make sure they fit the overall plan in my system at the time.. I will say for a 2 channel 
I'm a self proclaimed RF nut and 96-00 was also my favorite era of gear. I'm a fan of most of their products prior to and after this period, but I think the fact that since I was out of high shcool and making some real money to buy gear was the big reason for my love of the 96-00 era. I also remember that all of their amps in this era came with "birthsheets" and every new 
. Interestingly tho, I never seemed to have a problem with the 
Linear Mode
