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amapro704 doesn't know what "as new" means

7K views 33 replies 19 participants last post by  ErinH 
#1 · (Edited)
I sat on this for weeks. I wasn't going to write this because I have nothing to gain from doing so. After thinking about it for a while, I have to give feedback out of duty to the rest of the forum members. I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and its members over the last couple of months and want to protect its integrity.

I bought two zapco dc1000.4 amps from Joey. One he described with cosmetic issues, sent pictures and I accepted. The other he described "as new". Didn't send pictures, and I didn't ask for any. My fault, lesson learned. I also didn't ask about the function of the amp, because he said it was "as new". He still claims to this day that it was "as new". Here is the text from the thread:

"
SS 18w Illums, Zapco DC1000.4(x2), DC750.2, DAT/ETON DA6.6 HEX, Audiocontrol Model 11
MUST SELLLLLLLLL

DC1000.4 as new- $775"

The first little issue was Joey told me that he was missing one of the din cords and would refund me $20 since one was missing. Not a problem, but it might be relevant to the rest of the story. :worried:

Joey gave me a tracking # on march 4th. On the 6th UPS still had not picked it up. On the 7th, still not picked up. Later on the 7th Joey said that the amps were on the way and I shouldn't worry. On the 9th, UPS still says that they have not seen the amps. I called Joey and said that I needed something proving that UPS had the amps that day. He wasn't at work. Amazingly he checked and found out that they were still at his work, even though he had stated before that they were on the way. Maybe this all went down the way that Joey said that it went down. I don't know, but taken in context with the rest of the story, I have a hard time believing it. If I was shipping out $1200 worth of amps, you can guaran-freakin-ty that I would know whether the amps were sitting in the shipping department or not. I would at a minimum check with the shipping person and make sure that they confirmed that they went out. Joey confirmed at one point that they did go out, only to find out two days later they were still sitting at work. Again, I have all of the email exchanges to prove this.

The amps arrived several days later, each in separate sealed boxes inside a master box, separated by lots of paper. Well packaged.

The pictures show the condition of the "as new" amp. Joey claims "it must have happened during shipment". That simply isn't possible. There was nothing metal inside the box with the amp to gouge the finish in that way.


deep scratches (no way this happened in the box):mad:



scratches and discoloration (no damage to the box that it was in)






Worse than the scratches is the fact that the amp sometimes doesn't turn on, or takes several minutes to output sound. I talked to Robert at Zapco and, after checking the serial #, Robert says that it is possible that this amp did not have the mod to the pcb for the dsp. They had some early amps that would stay in protection mode. The mod includes swapping out a cap and one other component on the dsp board. It was an intermitten issue. It is going to cost about $120 with shipping to get the amp modded. Not what I expected for an "as new" amp. Joey claims that it never did that when he used it. Ok, maybe. I don't know. I would give him the benefit of a doubt if he wasn't out to lunch on the "as new" description as it relates to the appearance of the amp.

Finally, the amp shuts down way before it gets to clipping. The Zapco DC's have lights that show you when the output is clipping on a very dynamic passage. This amp shuts down well before that. Who knows how much it will cost to fix that problem. My old Alpine MRV-F545 played way louder than this Zapco that costs 3 times as much. In comparison the other Zapco amp, which is supposed to be identical, blows it away.

I tried to deal with Joey on this and he refused. I went so far as to say that I would keep the amp, but could he work with me on the cost of the mod. He basically said that he is remodeling his house and can't afford it. As a last resort I told him that I would file a paypal claim if he refused to work with me. To my surprise, Joey asked paypal to make a judgement before I did and they judged in his favor. The deal with paypal is that they refuse to make judgements on the quality of the product. I paid for a DC1000.4 and received one, and that is all that paypal cares about. Since this is the first issue that I have ever had with a claim with paypal, that was news to me.

Apparently, it wasn't news to Joey, because he knew that if he filed the claim it would be in his favor. Seems like he has been there before.

Ironic that Joey was also involved in the great "Robot Undergound" scandal.

Bottom line is that I am not playing the victim here. This is all my fault for not getting a clear description of quality of the amp appearance and functionality. I trusted that "as new" means looks and works like new. I was wrong. That won't happen again. Live and learn. At the same time, there needs to be consequences for Joey on this deal.

I don't have the time to get into a he said/he said on this. I have pages and pages of emails that I exchanged with Joey. I can back up every single thing that I have said here if anyone needs to know.

Maybe Joey is a stand-up guy most of the time, but got into a pinch working on his house and did some things he wouldn't normally do. I don't know. I am wondering if maybe Joey flipped the "as new" amp to me from someone else, and that is the reason that they didn't ship for so long... because he was waiting for it himself. That would explain the late shipping, the questionable condition of the "as new" amp, the missing din cord, and the fact that the amp shuts down before reaching rated output. He hooks them up and they appear to work OK, and he ships them out.

I don't know and I am just guessing, but it all just seems fishy to me.

When Joey sees this I am sure he will defend himself. I won't get into another RU thread battle, I can promise you that. I just have one question to ask a doubter: "Why would I spend all of this time writing this up if I was making this up?" I have nothing, absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. I really don't have the time. I would rather be finishing my never ending install! :laugh: The only reason that I am doing it is out of a sense of duty to the other forum members. I want anyone else considering buying from Joey to do their homework.

Lesson Learned. You can take this to heart, or ignore. Your choice. I am done. Thanks for listening.

Tony
 
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#2 · (Edited)
This post makes me very very nervous. Because I sent a certified money order to the same person for those speakers, the Illuminators, from Canada, and basically Canada Post tracking says that it got there, and so did Joey, but.. here I am a month later, with nothing. Joey, if you're out there. I have the message trail. I would love to write you a glowing review, and to say that the speakers have arrived, but at this point, this poster here makes me greatly concerned, and $450 USD is nothing to shake a stick at and is at the intense end of my budget. My inbox here hasn't seen anything from you lately, and I still have a hard time believing that Wells Fargo has what is now going on a month of difficulty processing an official Canadian Postal Money order in USD.

This would be my first experience buying stuff off of a DIYMA community member, I woud hate to have it turn into crap. So please Joey if you can send the speakers so that I can indicate here that I recieved them that would be appreciated greatly. I will indicate here that I got them.

I like you rockingridge feel queasy to out this. I don't like saying negative things about people. But in my case especially so, because I have so little rep here, being new to this car audio thing and all. All of this however, is starting to smell quite bad.
 
#5 ·
I am not playing devils advocate here but, 1 out of 3 packages never arrived at the USPS via Canada Post. Thats why I do not use it at all now.

That said, I am sorry you guys got the short end of the stick.

I will not buy a damn thing from "Joey".
 
#6 ·
I talked to Robert at Zapco and, after checking the serial #, Robert says that it is possible that this amp did not have the mod to the pcb for the dsp. They had some early amps that would stay in protection mode. The mod includes swapping out a cap and one other component on the dsp board. It was an intermitten issue. It is going to cost about $120 with shipping to get the amp modded.
That's pretty ****ty that Zapco charges to fix their own screw up.
 
#15 ·
That's not true at all actually. All money orders need to clear. The money will be in your account immediately but the bank or whatever institution you deal with will tell you that the authenticity of the m/o isn't known immediately and if it is a fraudulent m/o the bank will debit your account

Banks will tell you exactly how long to wait for the m/o to clear after you've cashed it. all you gotta do is ask. It's around a week or so.

Also another guy mentioned canada posts bad delivery. I ship tonnes of stuff with them and have had no problems. I think that they are quite good actually.
 
#14 ·
Yeah I feel like a total goof.

I hate to bring my private dealings up here, as I would rather solve my problems in private, but I think that it's about time that I took a few next steps because in the end. I am now out $450 US dollars with no speakers to show for it. I spoke with Joey over the phone, and he insists on refunding me via paypal as he apparently has spent my cash and needs to pay me back via credit card. Something that I have not accepted, due to the flaky nature of the transactions to date. He confirmed over the forum pm that he had received and cashed the money order. In addition, I spoke with a paypal rep who in essence said that if he were to pay me back via paypal, he could lodge a dispute via VISA, which means that the money would get sucked back out faster than... faster than... well I'll leave that to your imagination. So basically, he got my money, he spent it, and now wants to refund me with paypal. Bull$****e.

The kicker is that he claims that the speakers are now broken. Sound familliar? Given the tough economic times, I asked him whether he had a job, and the answer was yes, so he has the ability to pay me back. But to date I have heard nothing, and he was supposed to call me weeks ago. I am on the verge of resorting to some kind of legal or law enforcement means.

Frankly for a first experience with buying something from a forum member, this has been more than dissapointing. I am happy that the second, a DIYMA sub from npdang came in though. That was positive.

In the end, I really ought to post the entire sordid PM trail that I have with him. But I will wait and see after my consultations.

If any of you have advice that would be appreciated.
 
#16 ·
Well regardless, this dude said that it finally cleared, and now refuses to ship saying that the drivers are damaged, and refuses to refund but by paypal after having spent money which wasn't his.

Hey somebody from Simcoe. I used to live down near there. Hope that you're enjoying that toyotetsu plant.
 
#17 ·
Ya, totally agree. Just letting people know about the m/o situation since alot of people don't understand it.

Hey, a fellow Simcoe boy! Your the first guy I've talked to on diyma from anywhere close to my area. I actually just found out where that plant was built a few weeks ago. Guess I don't get out much ; )
 
#18 ·
It appears that Amapro (Joey) needed some cash and two of us fell victim to his scam. Vicw - I know where he works if you need the info.
 
#21 ·
jesus i never had a prob with buying stuff off my local forums.. i have even had members collect items for me and they wud have paid for items and i wud just give them the cash

that really sucks.. to many chancers out there.. but its always best to name and shame.. and ask questons b4 you make any purchase over the net
 
#22 ·
Thought I would update this thread. In fairness, I updated the software on the "as new" stated amp, and I have not had any further issues with the amp not turning on at all. I also have not lost the settings in the processor software memory since then. It still takes some time to turn on, on occasion. Other than that it kicks butt. Still teed off that I paid "as new" price and got a scratched up amp, but that is the last time I don't ask for pictures before I send payment.
 
#25 ·
I read the entire robot underground thing . I found my way here from a link in that thread. Turns out the OP of that thread actually screwed over some people right here! Ironic how things turn out. All kinds of people were on the defense of the OP in that thread and that OP was actually screwing people over! Shows me how people just love a good fight even if the person they defend and cheer on is a evil litlle bastard.
What a crazy thread. Its closed now. But should have been closed before the dude todd killed himself. DIYMA may not see it but letting threads go on and on especially when people specifically ask ( like patrick did ) to end the thread and delete it and they DONT, DIYMA and any other forum, not cooperating with the persons requests, adds to the chaos. I have no doubt that forums and video blogs sometimes make people get into a self destructive mentality. The case of RobotUnderground is just a classic scenerio where the Owner of this forum SHOULD have stepped in and stopped the thread. Especially after PAtrick asked to have it stopped and be deleted. We read that a dude actually killed himself over situations that were in part due to that thread! Still, after several YEARS we can still read about this dudes death and how others just knee into Patricks business tactics. All while the OP was plotting and stealing just like he accused Patrick of doing! The owner of this forum let that thread be a playground for what ultimately added to the end a persons life! Im sure there will be people saying this forum was in no fault but from what I read, I do believe they are at fault to an extent. Its the same level as aiding a riot and having a person shout STOP STOP Im getting hurt. Yet noone listens and he gets killed! Patrick didnt get killed. Todd did. And the fact is, we can still read the thread as it plays out in a way that suggests the Owner even added to the rioting, pointed out the mans death, even denying removal of the thread in a personal response to Patrick, as if smearing **** in his face, saying, na na nee boo boo ,, **** you its my forum! At that point I would have pulled the plug and deleted the thread out of respect of the deceased and his family!
Ive read countless threads on here and many times Ive read arguments over petty crap and overall the forum seems to have a certain dark, bully type of atmosphere. If you dont follow with what certain people say then you get 20 or 30 people to chime in and rip you apart all while having the owner just sit back and watch! Allot of people here just respond with rude comments as though they are elite and noone else can overcome there knowledge. So they **** on people!
Ill point out that I got ripped off. Not from a person on the forum. But from the forum itself! Just research my threads. I tried selling an amp. This website asked at the time of posting if I wanted to pay a few more dollars for more advertising. So I paid. I finished the ad in the classified section and within a few minutes the add dissappeared! So I contacted the owner by email. I then called the number paypal has on file and talked to a dude who claimed to be the owner of the forum. He said he has no idea how the website is ran and has no idea ho to fix the problem. He suggests I post a question in one of the forum. WTF? What kind of customer service is that? So I posted the question. A few days later I get a response from the same person I talked to on the phone and he said it was removed simply becuase I didnt put a asking price in the add? WTF? You people let a 3 year riot go on and see a dude commit suicide over it but you end my lil **** classified over me not putting a price! WOW. On top of that my ad still never got what I paid for and was never offered any kind of refund...........
So, we can go on and on about how ****ty a certain biz is run and how people get screwed over by others. But when a person asks to specifically delete and stop threads , I think it should be done!
I cant wait to see the flaming responses on this. Im sure people will gear up for another bully battle................... I dont think Ill be responding. I said what was on my mind.
 
#27 ·
I don't see how your post is relevant to the posts of 2 years ago.

In a classified ad, you have to have a price. They should have offered a refund or let you edit it though.
 
#29 · (Edited)
My point was that we ALLLLL have a story or 2 about someone screwing us over. But when **** gets out of hand, someone should step in and stop the fight. And that is upto the owner/ moderators. But I see , many times on here, that the stupidest **** gets deleted , ( like educational threads ) where as the violent things usually stay.... And none of us can do anything about it cause we have no delete feature. No forum support.No customer support so to speak. I had to ask the forum members WTH happened to my classified ad. WTH is that?
That thread.. ( google it robotunderground ) was just so ****ed up. The OP of this thread started off by trashing the robot dude. Others joined in. In the end it turns out the OP ****ed over people just as he accused the robot dude! Pat Chandler. All while the owner of this forum seemingly encouraged the whole thing! Pointing to a link where the dude Todd said his last good byes. And blammm... Gone! You just dont do that. End it! Delete the ****ing thread. Dont continue to let it go on and on and even post threads to add to the **** fest. Jesus K-rist! Even AFTER the robot dude asked to be deleted and have the thread removed and even after we saw one of the thread responders commit suicide over that and another similar situation, still we can read it and just wonder. Why the hell didnt the owner stop the ****? Over and over we read that all the people wanted was to have Pat Chandlers ass handed to him. With no regard to HIS request, they kept going and going to.. bamm a dude killed himself ! And we see here, ALLL those people that took up for Joey, the OP of that RobotUnderground thread, followed a ****ing thief! They were praising a guy and defending a guy that did exactly what they were flaming against! All the owner had to do was delete the thread. Simple.
So I decided to share my little experience with the owner himself. Proving that noone is immune to the sting of forums. He screwed me over. Wasnt much. But its the principle of the thing. Now, it makes a 360...... U really want to pay for ads that get deleted and have the owner tell u to ask what happened to clueless forum members? Still. I get no refund. I wont even ask for it.
So, Now, when a person asks to be deleted I think they should be. And if they want all there info taken down, they should have that done as well!... No where in this forum can anybody go back and delete or change anything after a few hours of it being posted. Thats ****ed up. We all know about company policies blah blah. But there are policies that are just rediculous. And i beleive not being able to delete your own posts, or even your account. Its bogus! The Owner and his crew will delete what they want without regard to peoples request.... That is hitler type ****...
Why the big fuss? Cause Im sick and tired of reading **** on this forum and on other forums, where a group of people just jump on one or 2 dudes and rag um out , make um look like **** in front of the world, and the owners/ moderators of these forums just lay back and watch it happen, to the point where people kill themselves from the depression the forum members have brought ( from criticism etc etc) And in the end we see the ones criticizing are just as ****ing bad!
 
#33 ·
And Id venture to see if it was your kid, brother, uncle , dad You would want the ****ing thread deleted..... WHo cares if the dude was already thinking about it. Apparently Noone! That aint even the point! Point is, letting it be posted, even added to it MAKES the suicidal thoughts more appealing to the dude. Its OBVIOUS the people in that thread were like ****ing school kids at a recess fight just hoping for blood. Again, All the owner had to do was pull the plug..... Why is that so ****ing hard for anybody to understand? Were talking about a mans life? Not a ****ing amp! Have some got dam respect! REmove the thread. This is about car audio. Not homicide 101.
 
#34 ·
Point is, letting it be posted, even added to it MAKES the suicidal thoughts more appealing to the dude. Its OBVIOUS the people in that thread were like ****ing school kids at a recess fight just hoping for blood. Again, All the owner had to do was pull the plug..... Why is that so ****ing hard for anybody to understand? Were talking about a mans life? Not a ****ing amp! Have some got dam respect! REmove the thread. This is about car audio. Not homicide 101.
Do you not see the irony in your post and the fact that you dug up a 2 year old thread to make it?

Thread closed. Take it to OT if it's an issue you'd like to discuss further.
 
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