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Old 11-21-2016   #1
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Default Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

We are currently in process of launching a 5-channel in our SAE series... the new 1100.5 model. This will be a "testing the waters" model to see how amps of more than 4-channels do for our dealers.

I've had a thought to do a higher-end counterpart in the SAX line with significantly more features... this is very early brain-storming but this is my thoughts on it so far :

Something like this (FR Class-D probably) :

CH 1-2 @ 100 x 2 @ 4 ohms (stable to 2 ohms per channel)
CH 3-4 @ 150 x 2 @ 4 ohms (stable to 2 ohms per channel)
CH 5-6 @ 200 x 2 @ 4 ohms / 400 x 2 @ 2 ohms / 800 x 2 @ 1 ohm / 1600 x 1 @ 2 ohms bridged

CH 1-2 Crossover:
HPF Filter @ 50-5000 Hz (no x10… unless we can make it fit)
NO SUBSONIC
BYPASS switch (bypass all crossover features even sub-sonic) – so it selects HPF or BYPASS.

CH 3-4 crossover:
LPF Filter @ 500 – 5000 Hz (no x10… unless we can make it fit.. if so make it 50-5,000)
Subsonic @ 10-500 Hz
BYPASS switch (bypass all crossover features even sub-sonic) – so it selects LPF or BYPASS.

CH 5-6 Crossover:
LPF Filter @ 50-500 Hz (no x 10 at all)
Subsonic @ 10-100 Hz
BYPASS switch (bypass all crossover features even sub-sonic) – so it selects LPF or BYPASS.

* 6 Input RCAs
* “Input Select” switch so we can pick 2, 4, or 6 inputs
* Try to retain the remote for CH 5-6 if we have enough panel room
* Try to do a clip LED for each pair of channels if we have enough panel room
* Thermally controlled fan on a ~30 second delay (so it won't make sound when the system turns on)
* Potentially marine-grade water resistance. I can see it being very nice on a boat.

I am looking into use one of our wider case tools (like the 7500D or upcoming NS-2... we have 3 width cases that we use) so I can fit everything on the end-panel & to keep length down. More of a squarish shape.

So... assuming that is all possible how do you all feel about it ? Obviously it's way to early for me to guess at pricing... but assume not cheap as it's alot of power / features.

- Jacob Fuller
- Owner, Sundown Audio
- Sundown Audio on FACEBOOK
- I DO NOT USE PMs -- Email me at sundownz@sundownaudio.com
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Old 11-21-2016   #2
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

The staggered power looks fine. Should do great. Not high on all the features, but those of us who only need a gain pot and nothing else on an amp are few and far between.

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Old 11-21-2016   #3
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Great news Jacob. I love the all-in-one system amp concept and have owned and used literally 12 different 5-channel models in the past 10 years. I think your targeted power output is perfect, channels 5-6 being absolutely BEAST. I also appreciate the staggering of power between Channels 1-2 & 3-4, as it make sense regardless if the user is running a full-active front stage only or front & rear.

I see a couple of things listed potential specs, that I have questions about. Can Channels 3-4 also have a high-pass, in order to create a band-pass for mids? Maybe it can be set-by and equal to the Channel 5-6 low-pass filter. Also, will you include differential-balanced inputs? I see 5&6-channel amps being used for integrating with factory HU's in many of the newer cars. Utilizing the balanced-differential inputs allows direct connections to many of these systems w/o a LOC.

Also, if you need beta-testers, I'm your man! ;-D

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Old 11-21-2016   #4
 
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

I agree with metanium here.

It's not that I will necessarily or absolutely use the amplifier and all of its built in crossovers, but rather having the ability to do so that would make me happy that the options exist.

Having a 6 channel board for a full front stage with channels 1+2 for highs, 3+4 for a bandpassed mid/mid-range, and 5+6 for mid-bass/sub without external crossovers is big, but so is full bypass for some people.
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Old 11-21-2016   #5
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by metanium View Post
Great news Jacob. I love the all-in-one system amp concept and have owned and used literally 12 different 5-channel models in the past 10 years. I think your targeted power output is perfect, channels 5-6 being absolutely BEAST. I also appreciate the staggering of power between Channels 1-2 & 3-4, as it make sense regardless if the user is running a full-active front stage only or front & rear.

I see a couple of things listed potential specs, that I have questions about. Can Channels 3-4 also have a high-pass, in order to create a band-pass for mids? Maybe it can be set-by and equal to the Channel 5-6 low-pass filter. Also, will you include differential-balanced inputs? I see 5&6-channel amps being used for integrating with factory HU's in many of the newer cars. Utilizing the balanced-differential inputs allows direct connections to many of these systems w/o a LOC.

Also, if you need beta-testers, I'm your man! ;-D
CH 3-4 :
Good question. The subsonic will act as the HPF to allow band-pass -- this is why it can be set up to 500 Hz =)

I will check into the balance-differential inputs.

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Old 11-21-2016   #6
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
The staggered power looks fine. Should do great. Not high on all the features, but those of us who only need a gain pot and nothing else on an amp are few and far between.
Indeed... I figure having a true "bypass" switch would help out guys not using any on-board crossovers as well. My goal for the switch would be to completely bypass the crossover sub-board (other than gain) when selected.

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Old 11-21-2016   #7
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Jacob,

Any idea when these might be released?

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Old 11-21-2016   #8
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundownz View Post
We are currently in process of launching a 5-channel in our SAE series... the new 1100.5 model. This will be a "testing the waters" model to see how amps of more than 4-channels do for our dealers.

I've had a thought to do a higher-end counterpart in the SAX line with significantly more features... this is very early brain-storming but this is my thoughts on it so far :

Something like this (FR Class-D probably) :

CH 1-2 @ 100 x 2 @ 4 ohms (stable to 2 ohms per channel)
CH 3-4 @ 150 x 2 @ 4 ohms (stable to 2 ohms per channel)
CH 5-6 @ 200 x 2 @ 4 ohms / 400 x 2 @ 2 ohms / 800 x 2 @ 1 ohm / 1600 x 1 @ 2 ohms bridged

CH 1-2 Crossover:
HPF Filter @ 50-5000 Hz (no x10… unless we can make it fit)
NO SUBSONIC
BYPASS switch (bypass all crossover features even sub-sonic) – so it selects HPF or BYPASS.

CH 3-4 crossover:
LPF Filter @ 500 – 5000 Hz (no x10… unless we can make it fit.. if so make it 50-5,000)
Subsonic @ 10-500 Hz
BYPASS switch (bypass all crossover features even sub-sonic) – so it selects LPF or BYPASS.

CH 5-6 Crossover:
LPF Filter @ 50-500 Hz (no x 10 at all)
Subsonic @ 10-100 Hz
BYPASS switch (bypass all crossover features even sub-sonic) – so it selects LPF or BYPASS.

* 6 Input RCAs
* “Input Select” switch so we can pick 2, 4, or 6 inputs
* Try to retain the remote for CH 5-6 if we have enough panel room
* Try to do a clip LED for each pair of channels if we have enough panel room
* Thermally controlled fan on a ~30 second delay (so it won't make sound when the system turns on)
* Potentially marine-grade water resistance. I can see it being very nice on a boat.

I am looking into use one of our wider case tools (like the 7500D or upcoming NS-2... we have 3 width cases that we use) so I can fit everything on the end-panel & to keep length down. More of a squarish shape.

So... assuming that is all possible how do you all feel about it ? Obviously it's way to early for me to guess at pricing... but assume not cheap as it's alot of power / features.
Wow, that'd be nice. One amp solution for guys like me if i used passives on coax (gear in sig).

Ch5/6 would typically take up enough real-estate for a medium size amp as it is, based on specs. What kind of footprint would it be?

Concur on low noise differential inputs, the quieter the better.

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Old 11-21-2016   #9
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundownz View Post
Indeed... I figure having a true "bypass" switch would help out guys not using any on-board crossovers as well. My goal for the switch would be to completely bypass the crossover sub-board (other than gain) when selected.
I really like this idea, while most amps it is fairly simple to defeat the crossover, on others I have questioned myself. Having a simple switch would be really helpful and quick to set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundownz View Post
“Input Select” switch so we can pick 2, 4, or 6 inputs
This is nice as well. I used to have some JBL MS amps and they had an input select switch. Made it really cool when bridging channels for midbass, I wish my V9 had a similar switch so I did not have to use Y-cables.

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Old 11-21-2016   #10
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

That sounds like a REALLY nice amp! an Arc KS900.6 killer. Channels 5-6 sound like a crazy beast, being able to run to that level of load. Id' be good with 1/2 that but if you can fit that much under the hood, I wouldn't want to be one to try and stop you.

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Old 11-21-2016   #11
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

I honestly would never need any crossovers as far as High End SQ user, I have a DSP. I think you should focus more on sound quality and power production of the amp vs putting crossovers in...

or make 2 amps, one with, and one without like Patrick from Zuki Audio did...

but 6ch would be great and will this be class AB or D... I prefer class D..

Also Erick which im sure you know who that is,, from Image Dynamics,, he was about to release 8ch mp that you could bridge the least channels. but since you going to have a amp with so much balls inside of the amp. than you should be all set for any great 3way active setup so no need for crossovers unless someone isn't using dsp and wants to be difficult

BTW you started on a project of a nice SQ sub with huge XMAX.. hows that going?

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Old 11-21-2016   #12
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthmeal View Post
That sounds like a REALLY nice amp! an Arc KS900.6 killer. Channels 5-6 sound like a crazy beast, being able to run to that level of load. Id' be good with 1/2 that but if you can fit that much under the hood, I wouldn't want to be one to try and stop you.
Me on the other hand, I love loud clean music, and this will be pefrect one amp solution for either 2 way or 3 way active...

I like it loud so anything under 100 w rms, wont cut it for me..
Thats why I have Mosconi Zero 4 amp and Zero 1 just for that power

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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

I like the staggered power idea for the amp. What would be killer would be an 8 channel amp based on the same concepts for an all in one package for those doing an active 3 way system and trying to keep an install as minimal as possible. I like the power output of the sub channels with the 1 ohm stability per channel/ 2 ohm mono capability very much. Just throwing my 2 cents into the discussion.
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Old 11-21-2016   #14
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Have you ever looked into Class G/H technology? An amp such as you described but with G/H all around or at least on (A-D), now that would be cool. Alternatively, A/B on channels A-D (like the Audison 5.1k) would be nice also.


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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Class A on ch 1/2, class D everything else.
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Old 11-21-2016   #16
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

I like it, very stout sub stage at 2 or 1 ohm. That's the problem with many multi channel amps is a weak sub stage. Not sure it would replace my arc 1200.6 but would be tempting.

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Old 11-22-2016   #17
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by brumledb View Post
Have you ever looked into Class G/H technology? An amp such as you described but with G/H all around or at least on (A-D), now that would be cool. Alternatively, A/B on channels A-D (like the Audison 5.1k) would be nice also.
I've had some GH samples from a build-house that does that technology. I was having a hard time getting through to them about doing custom PCBs & the quoted pricing was pretty high even on stock boards. I feel like it would put me out of the running with the majority of our customers.

-----

The SAE-1100.5 that we will be releasing 1Q or 2017 an AB/D model (75x4 + 800x1) -- the issue I have with that on the more powerful SAX 6-channel would be size. It would end up being pretty gigantic. Assuming our narrow casing probably 30" long.

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Old 11-22-2016   #18
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by quickaudi07 View Post
BTW you started on a project of a nice SQ sub with huge XMAX.. hows that going?
If you are talking about my JF-SQ project then I have that sitting in my office behind me. I will be re-starting development next year on that... I didn't feel like the suspension was up to par and I've recently gained the ability to have 3D FEA simulations done for suspension components.

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Old 11-22-2016   #19
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnae38 View Post
Ch5/6 would typically take up enough real-estate for a medium size amp as it is, based on specs. What kind of footprint would it be?
We are *very* early on in the brain-storming process. I am trying to work out the sizing and estimate what it would cost to produce to evaluate it's marketability as soon as I can =)

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Old 11-22-2016   #20
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

You need to get on my buddy, I seen what that sub could do and i was wow stoked! Ill be the first one to get cant wait to see the performance.

Good Luck !

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Old 12-23-2016   #21
 
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundownz View Post
I've had some GH samples from a build-house that does that technology. I was having a hard time getting through to them about doing custom PCBs & the quoted pricing was pretty high even on stock boards. I feel like it would put me out of the running with the majority of our customers.

-----

The SAE-1100.5 that we will be releasing 1Q or 2017 an AB/D model (75x4 + 800x1) -- the issue I have with that on the more powerful SAX 6-channel would be size. It would end up being pretty gigantic. Assuming our narrow casing probably 30" long.
OMG, if I had the spare funds the 5ch would be ideal....
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Old 03-14-2017   #22
 
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

The 6-channel specs look perfect to me only concern would be the size if its ~30" long. I'd probably have to go with two smaller format amps instead on a typical install.

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Old 03-14-2017   #23
 
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

Power would work great I could make the size work as well. What kind of a time line would there be?

Last edited by t-roy; 03-14-2017 at 06:51 PM.. Reason: More info
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Old 03-29-2017   #24
 
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

I really like the flexibility this amp will offer & the increase in power for channels 5 - 6 over the 1100.5. This offering will cover the 1100.5 demographic as well as folks looking for higher Mono output. Excellent all-around package for entry / mid-level systems.
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Old 04-04-2017   #25
 
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Default Re: Sundown 6-Channel Ideas : Discuss

I like the idea of staggered power, but not in a 30" footprint. How about something like this?

FD with RPS
CH 1-2 @ 100 x 2 @ 2-4 Ω
CH 3-4 @ 150 x 2 @ 2-4 Ω
CH 5-6 @ 200 x 2 @ 2-4 Ω / 400 x 1 @ 4 Ω bridged

CH 1-2 Crossover:
HPF Filter @ 50-7000 Hz
BYPASS/ALL-PASS switch (select HP or AP).

CH 3-4 crossover:
LP/HP/BP Filter @ 50 – 7000 Hz
BYPASS/ALL-PASS switch (select LP, HP, BP, or AP).

CH 5-6 Crossover:
LPF Filter @ 50-500 Hz
Subsonic @ 10-100 Hz
BYPASS/ALL-PASS switch (LP or AP).

* 6 Input RCAs
* “Input Select” switch so we can pick 2, 4, or 6 inputs
* Try to retain the remote for CH 5-6 if we have enough panel room
* Try to do a clip LED for each pair of channels if we have enough panel room
* Thermally controlled fan on a ~30 second delay (so it won't make sound when the system turns on)
* Marine-grade water resistance. I can see it being very nice on a boat.


...900W total RMS rated, so it very well might be crammed in a chassis size range similar to the NVX/PPI/Polk 5ch triplets, the PDX line, AudioControl LC-6.1200, and the like.
(around w:12-15" x d:7-9" x h:2-3")

...If this is possible to do and carry a retail price tag between $600-800, I think you may have an absolute winner on your hands.

2011 Kia Optima EX
Factory HU | Blaupunkt Vc660 | Infinity Kappa 800w Infinite Baffle | Soundstream TN4.900D
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