Need 8" for very small enclosure

[bullyx2]

Hello all. I am hoping to get some recommendations for a pair of 8" subs for very small enclosures. I'd like to present a 4 ohm load to the bridged 3rd and 4th channels of my Massive NX4, so I'd need 2, 8, or dual 4 ohm drivers. The manual says that would be 400 watts but I have read on here to expect less so am guessing appx. 150 watts to each driver . I would consider myself more of a SQ over SPL guy, but being a convertible, I'd be willing to sacrifice some SQ for more volume .

I have 2 small plastic cubbies behind the seats of my 2006MX-5 Miata. I have tossed around the idea of reinforcing the plastic with wood and fiberglass and using them as enclosures. Someone on this site a while back mentioned using them as molds to make true fiberglass enclosures. If I did that, I'd attempt to place some foam blocks of different sizes on the outside of the cubbies and attempt to reinstall them to determine the maximum size I can fit in the car. (the area behind them is an odd shape). I'd then use the cubbies plus the foam to form my mold. Lastly, I'd remove the cubbies and replace them with the new enclosures. I could also build wood enclosures in the area, they'd just be an odd shape and I think the internal volume would be about the same. Attached are some pics I found online and at Miata.net of the cubbies, the area behind them, and one of an install where the owner used JL 6w3's.

Anyway, I got off track a bit. The bottom line is that the cubbies as they sit now are in the .17 cubic foot range. Even if I can enlarge them, I'd maybe get to .2. I've modelled a few drivers in WINISD but am new to the program. Based on what I saw, I am leaning towards the RE Audio REX 8". A couple of the Tang Band 8's from PE looked good as well but are only available in 4 ohm. Any recommendadtions are certainly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. -Bill

[Chaos]

The ID8's are sweet, but you won't get much low end out of such small enclosures.

Take a look at the JBL GTO8" or maybe the Kicker CVT 6.5"

[bullyx2]

Wow, thank you both for the quick replies. Im actually looked at the ID and JBL both in WINISD. Like I said, I am new to that program so may not have been doing everything right. The ID looked a lot like the RE, but is more expensive. That being said, It's not prohibitively more and I have had good experiance with ID in the past. The JBL was very interesting and priced very well but only available in single 4 ohm as best I could tell. I'd get a little less power out of the amp with them, but have read such god things about them, might be worth it.

I read up on a couple 6"-7" subs (did not look at them in WINISD) and am not totally against the idea, especially if it will outperform an 8" in my circumstances, but would prefer an 8" if at all possible.

Any other thgouhts on drivers to look into are greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[bullyx2]

Thanks, they are more than the REs but like I said, not prohibitively more. And you echoed my thoguhts exactly, I'd prefer the extra cone area especially considering that I primarily drive it with the top down so addl. output will probably be appreciated over top notch SQ. I actually think I have an ID8 that belongs to a friend in my attic. (think it's a dual 4 ohm but dont recall) Might throw a quick box together this weekend (will make it about the size I anticipate having) and see how it does.

Any other 8's that might fit the bill that I am not considering?

Thanks again to all for the input.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by bullyx2

Hello all. I am hoping to get some recommendations for a pair of 8" subs for very small enclosures. I'd like to present a 4 ohm load to the bridged 3rd and 4th channels of my Massive NX4, so I'd need 2, 8, or dual 4 ohm drivers. The manual says that would be 400 watts but I have read on here to expect less so am guessing appx. 150 watts to each driver. I would consider myself more of a SQ over SPL guy, but being a convertible, I'd be willing to sacrifice some SQ for more volume.

I have 2 small plastic cubbies behind the seats of my 2006MX-5 Miata. I have tossed around the idea of reinforcing the plastic with wood and fiberglass and using them as enclosures. Someone on this site a while back mentioned using them as molds to make true fiberglass enclosures. If I did that, I'd attempt to place some foam blocks of different sizes on the outside of the cubbies and attempt to reinstall them to determine the maximum size I can fit in the car. (the area behind them is an odd shape). I'd then use the cubbies plus the foam to form my mold. Lastly, I'd remove the cubbies and replace them with the new enclosures. I could also build wood enclosures in the area, they'd just be an odd shape and I think the internal volume would be about the same. Attached are some pics I found online and at Miata.net of the cubbies, the area behind them, and one of an install where the owner used JL 6w3's.

Anyway, I got off track a bit. The bottom line is that the cubbies as they sit now are in the .17 cubic foot range. Even if I can enlarge them, I'd maybe get to .2. I've modelled a few drivers in WINISD but am new to the program. Based on what I saw, I am leaning towards the RE Audio REX 8". A couple of the Tang Band 8's from PE looked good as well but are only available in 4 ohm. Any recommendadtions are certainly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. -Bill

The diameter of a loudspeaker is basically irrelevant - if you want to get a lot of bass out of a small enclosure, take a look at how much air it can displace. You can figure that out by multiplying the area of the cone (SD) by xmax.

Once you do that, you may find that a 6.5" woofer will work better, or perhaps a ten.

If you don't have unlimited amplifier power, take a look at the EBP. Efficiency bandwidth product will tell you which woofer will be the most efficienct over a specific range.

For instance, if you want your sub to play from 40 to 80hz, you'll probably get the most efficiency out of a woofer with an EBP of about 60 to 80hz.

EBP is FS/QES.

I like the TC Sounds Epic 8. It has 23mm of xmax and an EBP of 91. The EBP is a little bit high for your application. Then again, that's why people get good results with tens, twelves, and fifteens. They generally have a lower EBP than an eight. You might consider the Dayton Reference eight as well.

There aren't many eights with more displacement than the TC sounds. And when it comes to making bass, EBP and displacement is almost all that matters.

If you have the luxury of making a crazy enclosure like a tapped horn or a bandpass, you can bend the rules (a little.)

But if you're doing a sealed box, stick with EBP and displacement to guide you.

[bullyx2]

Thank you Patrick. I looked at the Epic 8" as well. I like what I have heard about it. However, when plugging it into WINISD, it looked odd, almost like I was doing something wrong. The price, although higher than the others, doesn't scare me if it will work.

One 10" would be great, and I have heard of someone doing it in that car with one of the shallow pioneers downfiring in the area I am looking at. I have been unable to find a pic of that though. I'd love to try to get one 10" Dayton HO or a Polk MM810 in there but think building an enclosure for 10 might beyond my skills. Looks like 2 tiny boxes will be much easier to build than one large box and might be tough to build something that will physically hold a 10".

[peg_legs]

I had a similar situation in my z4. I went with 6.5 inch Elemental Designs subs and it was just bad all over. I had about .3 cubic feet each. I ended up with a 10" in the trunk, but if i had kept the car, was planning on trying some 8's in there. The 6.5 inch speakers had a lot of midbass kick, but dropped off sharply from there. Some have had good results with tiny drivers, but i will never try it again.

[bullyx2]

HAHA, I actually have one of those ED 6.5's in the OEM enclosure in my wife's Element with about 150 watts going to it. MEH. Better than the OEM sub by a long shot, but I agree, nothing to write home about.

Think I am going to take Patrick Bateman's recommendations and use those equations while shopping around while also leaning towards the IDs. Also may take the car apart again this weekend and do some more measuring in that area to see what my options for a 10" might be.

[Wesayso]

http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/...GTO%20804D.pdf

29,60/0.450=65.77

[Salami]

Originally Posted by bullyx2

Thank you Patrick. I looked at the Epic 8" as well.

The Epic 8 is not going to work for you unless you are only going to use one driver or the amp can handle a 2ohm load bridged. Epic 8's only come in dual 2's.

Another sub to consider is the new Alpine 8 that is going to be coming out in the next month or so. The specs that are out so far appear promising. Supposed to be available in dual 2 and 4's.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by bullyx2

Thank you Patrick. I looked at the Epic 8" as well. I like what I have heard about it. However, when plugging it into WINISD, it looked odd, almost like I was doing something wrong. The price, although higher than the others, doesn't scare me if it will work.

One 10" would be great, and I have heard of someone doing it in that car with one of the shallow pioneers downfiring in the area I am looking at. I have been unable to find a pic of that though. I'd love to try to get one 10" Dayton HO or a Polk MM810 in there but think building an enclosure for 10 might beyond my skills. Looks like 2 tiny boxes will be much easier to build than one large box and might be tough to build something that will physically hold a 10".

Some candidates have so much motor force, you end up in the strange situation that you can't even fit the woofer in the box! The enclosure that I built for my 8NDL51s is literally a fraction of an inch away from the basket. I had to make it out of fiberglass to get it small enough. Gets hella loud tho!

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by Wesayso

http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/...GTO%20804D.pdf

29,60/0.450=65.77

I have an iPod dock at home, with a woofer like this in it. It has something like a thousand watts of Class D power feeding it. It's INCREDIBLE how loud this little sub can get. These little subs are power hungry, but it's a really solid solution if u bring a big amp. Sounds great too!

[bullyx2]

Thanks again to all for the advice. This is probably the best forum I have ever been on. The amount of info and advice is great. Getting to that area of the car requires removing the seats and a ton of trim. I have been wanting to just take it apart for a few days and experiment with what I can squeeze in there. Problem is (ok, good problem maybe) is that I love driving the car with the top down and weather here in Florida has been perfect for the past couple weeks. I want to drive it every day. I think, though, I am going to do that soon. I'll grab some materials and mock up a few things to see what I am really dealing with. I have never done fiberglass but have been reading on the process for years and think this could be a good first project since it will be hidden and won't have to be beautiful. Based on my current amp, I think I am leaning towards the ID 8s for now but if my mockups show me more space or make a 10(s) an option, then who knows. I have done some reading on one of the Sundown 8" and liking it as well if it will fit. I have a handful of subs at home. None would work as a permanent solution, but would be ok for testing. Thank you all again for the help. I'll definitely post some pics and thoughts as I go.

[subwoofery]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

The diameter of a loudspeaker is basically irrelevant - if you want to get a lot of bass out of a small enclosure, take a look at how much air it can displace. You can figure that out by multiplying the area of the cone (SD) by xmax.

Once you do that, you may find that a 6.5" woofer will work better, or perhaps a ten.

If you don't have unlimited amplifier power, take a look at the EBP. Efficiency bandwidth product will tell you which woofer will be the most efficienct over a specific range.

For instance, if you want your sub to play from 40 to 80hz, you'll probably get the most efficiency out of a woofer with an EBP of about 60 to 80hz.

EBP is FS/QES.

I like the TC Sounds Epic 8. It has 23mm of xmax and an EBP of 91. The EBP is a little bit high for your application. Then again, that's why people get good results with tens, twelves, and fifteens. They generally have a lower EBP than an eight. You might consider the Dayton Reference eight as well.

There aren't many eights with more displacement than the TC sounds. And when it comes to making bass, EBP and displacement is almost all that matters.

If you have the luxury of making a crazy enclosure like a tapped horn or a bandpass, you can bend the rules (a little.)

But if you're doing a sealed box, stick with EBP and displacement to guide you.

To the OP,
Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer
Air displaced = 1820 for 1 driver
Use 2 and you'll have more air displaced than an ID8, GTO8, RE8...

Use 4 TB and you'll have a 4ohm load:


Other advantage in using smaller drivers is letting you place them in spaces you wouldn't have considered in your planning phase.

Kelvin