Unique system configuration--which speakers/where?

wait,what? · 04-22-2012

So while having some high-end components up front and a sub in the rear is usually a good way to go, my access cab Tacoma pickup does not have room for a sub without doing away with a rear seat (not gonna happen). As is, there is room for 6x9's (or 6.5's) and tweeters in the front doors, and 6.5" speakers in the rear doors...the rear speaker mounts are about 24" away from the driver's head rest, so they are actually about the same distance from the driver as the front speakers if not closer (if it matters). I have an Alpine CDE-123 deck, Alpine MRP-F300 amp, and on a whim bought a discounted pair of Polk MM691 (I know, 6.5's have better sq, but I'm trying to make up for not having a subwoofer). My plan was to mount the mm 6x9's up front and buy a set of db6501 components and mount the speakers in the rear running off the amp, and mount the tweeters in the front door and run them off the deck. I have been slowly realizing how much of a novice I am at this stuff, and have been tossing around the idea of just bridging the amp and ditching the rear speakers, putting coaxials in the rear with db1001 tweeters up front and keeping the 6x9's, or returning the 6x9's and buying a set of mm6501 components and using just those--but then I loose the bass of the 6x9's...well, anyone here feel like helping out a newbie? I'm just trying to do the best I can without a sub and without going broke.

eye_see_you · 04-22-2012

You can fit a shallow sub I used two elemental design sq10's in 1cf of space on 600 watts at 2 ohms in my previous car. Sine they only need minimal space they provide a decent amount of bass. Go with the 6.5 components up front use whatever you want for rear fill and slim sub or two.

wait,what? · 04-22-2012

Do you have any experience mounting a sub in a Tacoma Access Cab? Honestly I really want a sub, I just don't know where i can fit one...I have a Kenwood Excelon shallow mount 8" sub that I pulled out of my last truck that I was hoping to mount in my new (to me) Tacoma, but I measured and it wouldn't even fit under the driver seat unless I had it pushing up against the bottom of the cushion in a .25cu ft box. Apparently there is room behind the back seats for a shallow mount on the double cab Tacomas, but the Access Cab models are 3-4" of backrest then sheet metal.

trumpet · 04-22-2012

I would run a high end 6x9 component set up front. CDT Audio HD 690 COM

It's a myth that 6x9s don't sound as good as a round speaker. Make the most of your factory opening with 6x9s and also do some acoustic treatments to improve the bass response. Vibration damper, CCF and MLV, seal large access holes under the door panel with sheet metal, etc. We can help with any questions about that.

**Shadowmarx** · 04-22-2012

If you make some brackets to raise your back set up a little bit , You could have enough room to down fire a shallow mount 10" or two.....

wait,what? · 04-22-2012

I did not even know those CDT 6x9 components existed, thanks for the link. If I run these in the front would it still be a good idea to put some coaxials or midbass drivers in the rear? As for raising the seats, the ones in the back fold down and I'm not sure it would be feasible to raise them...as for the front, well making a bracket for the front mounts would be tricky and I'm not sure if it would effect the safety of the airbag system.

eye_see_you · 04-23-2012

the elemental SQ10 subs only need 3 inches of mount depth and can handle a decent amount of power.
Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics

6x9's could be used but components will give you more control in your setup

emilime75 · 04-23-2012

Taking a look at a few access cab photos online, it looks like you could build a rear center console enclosure for a sub. Make it to fit in between the front console and the back seat.

MarkZ · 04-23-2012

If you're willing to put some work into your rear doors, you could use those to house subs.

Big dogs or no dogs · 04-23-2012

Trumpet you had mentioned to me, I have a 2003 4Runner which uses the same door speakers, about the CDT 6x9's, how would those compare to the Image Dynamics 6x9 component set? Not sure if you have any experience with those.

To the OP, I am going to either do the CDT 6x9 component set or the Image Dynamics XS-69 component set for my front doors as Trumpet has recommended. This will bring me a fair amount of bass forward in my T4R after sealing the doors up. Look at how much room you have where the rear speakers reside, with a little work you may be able to mount an 8 in each side.

I have all of the cargo room in the 4Runner but I would rather not use up much of it for a sub box as I use it for my dogs and hauling medical crap for work so I'm trying to figure out where I can "hide" a subwoofer(s).

wait,what? · 04-23-2012

There are some nice looking rear center console setups posted online for sure, only they prevent the back seats from folding down and yielding access to the storage underneath them where the bottle jack is. As for the back doors, I would have to do some trimming of the interior trim panel to fit an 8" but I found these JL 6W3v3-4 6.5" subs online that I think I could squeeze in JL Audio 6W3v3-4 W3v3 Series 6.5" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com
Do you think I could get enough bass to justify the expense and work compared to just relying on 6x9's for bass? I already have a decent amp that will power a pair of the JL 6.5's. Would mounting them open-air be ok if I thoroughly deaden the doors? (I ask because making a box inside the door looks like it would require some actual skill and ingenuity)

wait,what? · 04-23-2012

Alright so I guess asking about free-air mounting the JL's was kinda silly...I was just being hopeful. That said, right now I am looking at just running the 6x9's in the front and figuring out the rear another time if I find the system lacking and have more money to spend.

Now to address Trumpet's offer to help with sound dampening the front doors to help with the 6x9's bass response...is it best to mount the sound dampening material inside the door so it is all behind the speaker or almost flush with it but out of sight, almost mimicking a really big box? I am seeing tons of pictures online where people apply dynamat or another product to the sheet metal so it is facing the plastic trim panel and there is bare metal on the inside of the panel that the speaker is mounted to--but the idea is to dampen the sound vibrations before they have a chance to reach metal, correct? I have some sheet metal I can use to fill the access holes in the doors, should I just apply sound dampening to them before screwing them into place? Thanks again for the help.

trumpet · 04-23-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by wait,what?

Now to address Trumpet's offer to help with sound dampening the front doors to help with the 6x9's bass response...is it best to mount the sound dampening material inside the door so it is all behind the speaker or almost flush with it but out of sight, almost mimicking a really big box? I am seeing tons of pictures online where people apply dynamat or another product to the sheet metal so it is facing the plastic trim panel and there is bare metal on the inside of the panel that the speaker is mounted to--but the idea is to dampen the sound vibrations before they have a chance to reach metal, correct? I have some sheet metal I can use to fill the access holes in the doors, should I just apply sound dampening to them before screwing them into place? Thanks again for the help.

First off, I want to make sure you're using a good sound damping product. You want to look for a butyl rubber based adhesive and a heavy foil. The cld tiles from sound deadener Showdown are one of the better choices. I'm a big fan of Second Skin Alpha Damp. I highly recommend you send the owner of SDS, Don, an e-mail to request his advice about a sound deadening plan for you and your vehicle.

You can use butyl rope, Duct Seal, or non-hardening model clay to make a barrier between the speaker and the metal door panel. The vibrations are going to get into the door regardless.

If you make sheet metal access hole covers it's a good idea to put a bit of vibration damper on them.

The real eye opening difference in the bass response of door mounted speakers comes when you do your vibration damper, try it for a while, and then add a layer of closed cell foam and a layer of mass loaded vinyl. CCF is to isolate the MLV from the door panel so it doesn't pick up vibrations. The MLV does two excellent things. 1) It acts as a barrier to road noise. 2) It blocks the rear sound wave from interacting with the front sound wave. The reduction of this destructive interference can make a large improvement in midbass detail.

If you get in touch with Don at sound deadener Showdown he will be able to go over all of these topics in greater detail. I'm really just summarizing things I learned from him.

MarkZ · 04-24-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by wait,what?

Alright so I guess asking about free-air mounting the JL's was kinda silly...I was just being hopeful.

Why was it silly? It's not an ideal situation, but many people have successfully run door-mounted bass. It's no more silly than expecting it out of your front speakers.

The advantage of adding them to the rear doors is that you can use subwoofers back there, rather than relying trying to get your midrange speakers to handle sub duty.

wait,what? · 04-25-2012

Well, seeing as open-air mounting a sub in a door is not a completely terrible idea, I did some measurements...and I can shoe-horn in a shallow 8" in each rear door if I open the speaker holes in the sheet metal. After dropping the cash on components I won't have much to spend on subs, so here are some thoughts (other than just running some coaxials back there): I already have a Kenwood KFC-XW800F, which works but is unimpressive, and can buy another one for pretty cheap...or I could wait a little longer and get a single or pair of different budget shallow subs, like the MM840's

And Trumpet, thanks for the tips, I'll be sending Don at SDS an email

RobyG78 · 04-25-2012

Might be worth a shot in a custom glass box. Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics At .35 Ideal Cubes and .2 cubes for a small enclosure. You can sure fit them in a tight place. Also at 4.375" it is a shallow sub as well, They also do in IB. Right now they have a hard to pass up deal for good quality sub.

wait,what? · 04-26-2012

I did some more measuring and that elemental designs 8" is just barely too deep. Something I found that I wasn't able to find much information on is the Earthquake Sound shallow mount line of subs. They seem like an interesting design, has anyone heard them or know what their sound quality is like? Supposedly the Xmax is 15mm and they make a 6.5" that is sold in pairs and would be a direct drop-in for my back doors. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_m...ubwoofers.html

wait,what? · 04-28-2012

Nvm about the earthquakes...I saw that CDT makes some subs and midbass drivers that will fit, and if I need more bass I'll wait and go with those. The CDT 6x9 components are in the mail, I can't wait!