It seems like the Leviathan might be more american made than the 6150. Think it has more parts from Korea than parts from China like the 6150, however not totally sure, but have been told by ZED the Leviathan uses "no parts from China" and did purchase a 6150d, opened it up and found Fujicon Caps (which was hoping jap caps but a search said CHINA) and a fan with "made in China" sticker. So the question would be the techinical amp guys, which amp has the better SQ, which amp is more USA made, since mmats wins with power and small size. Know ZED is supposed to be great builder. Think had a really good Korean made amp (it sounded really great, GS Redline 1000) which ripped his design because it resymboled the leviathan with the cooling rods. But it came out in like 2000 and the Leviathan wasn't even probably out then. Not sure. Was really looking forward to power an Ultimo (not the SC) with the all in one 6150, but as of now it's on sale in ebay for $1000 BNIB. Open to any suggestions of old school/USA made 5 or 6 channel amps like US amps which used jap capcitors. Also, n e one who would want build such amp for around a grand with all US parts, maybe we could work something out. Thanks
Anybody?? The Korean war for nothing, right? Have been looking into Lazer amps. Anybody familar? The site gives an option to buy the separate boards, but don't know about stacking to make a multichannel amp. Plus, none powerful enough for a sub. Have called the guy twice and left two messages, but no return.
I'd run the MMATS before I went with the Zed, but that's just me. The Zed amp may be the better of the two, but I wouldn't want to run the risk of having to deal with Mantz himself for customer support. If someone could 100% assure me that I wouldn't have to ever deal with Mantz in the event of a problem, that is the ONLY way I would own one of his products.
As for made in the USA, none of those amplifiers meet the FTC's rule of substantially ALL components being manufactured in the USA. So if Made in the USA is important to you, look for something prior to 1996 that actually was hand built in the USA. Sadly, EPA regulations pretty much killed most of the internals being manufactured in the USA.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
I doubt it was epa, more like greedy company owners im sure.
I'm pretty certain that EPA regulations would make capacitor production in the USA cost prohibitive. Besides, the bulk of the modern small parts manufacturing equipment is in the Asian countries anyhow.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
I love the 6150 and any products from MMATS .. and if you want to talk about customer service MMATS has the best I've experienced in I don't know how long.. need help with repairs? No probably and no questions asked.. the owner will take time out of his day to help you design a box (I know this from personal experience) .. I think every penny you pay for MMATS is worth it
Chris B, you are all over the place, answering many Q's. Care to tell you're story with car audio/electronics? EPA (or government conspiracy to send jobs to communism?) But no, EPA is overall good, just look what happened in the Gulf with the oil spill (thousands of gallons of chemical "corexit", which is banned by England, but dumped by "smart people" in government. Crude Oil.
But yea, wish someone would have told me to go old school a long time ago. Looking for an "all in one" solution for coaxe, midbass, sub. Was looking at an old school US amps 5 channel. Good choice? Being florida native, sentamental value?
Email Mantz and he told the story of coming to USA and having a huge factory with over like 200 workers making all the parts, but having to sell everything and dropping workers to like 5 because of government allowing outsourcing to other countries. My take, mother buckers in US government who get bribes from dictators to do such. Just mother buckers. And stupid good people who just go with the flow. Kinda like Mantz's attitude toward backing his equipment on the forum.
Lazer amp boards then buy all components from US companies?
Yes, when asked for a refund for the 6150 through an email, it felt wrong to do such. In the return email, Mr. Thompson explained how Mmats did stick it out in USA when everyone else left. All my experience with Mmats has been great also.
It seems to me,the company is expanding more to China and it's just a no no in my book. Wonder how much more it would cost to source components from Korea instead of China? Big difference no in working conditions for the people and no extra money to China's huge wimp butt military, polluted/EPA free, don't care about anything besides more money and communisum, joke of human rights, not to mention a joke to what is right in general.
Mmats does have an entry level line that is made overseas but the way they did it the line is completely different than most but that's a story for them to tell Cuz I don't want to get any part of it wrong.. all of the equipment that was built in the u.s. is still built here in their factory.. the sound of the u.s. made amps is amazing .. the "global " economy has left everything to the point that its almost impossible to build anything without using overseas parts but the craftsmanship and quality control of the MMATS equipment is beyond top notch .. the warranties that they offer should tell you they're confident in their products
right right. have been a loyal customer of mmats for a couple years (three new amps plus four new subs). big on feelings and it DID FEEL WRONG to ask for a refund for the amp. however, as mentioned in the opening, if you had to choose which amp is more "USA" in it, it might be the Leviathan. do you understand my position? not to advanced in electronics, so is why was hoping to get some feedback from the DIY community about the actual electronics of the amp and if wether or not Korean parts and companies are all different from Chinese companies, because overall, would not like to support such countries not matter how small.
I apologize for going off topic lol.. when it comes to MMATS I'm pretty hardcore lol.. I can't say about who has more American made parts Cuz I've never cracked a Zed
I'd run the MMATS before I went with the Zed, but that's just me. The Zed amp may be the better of the two, but I wouldn't want to run the risk of having to deal with Mantz himself for customer support. If someone could 100% assure me that I wouldn't have to ever deal with Mantz in the event of a problem, that is the ONLY way I would own one of his products.
As for made in the USA, none of those amplifiers meet the FTC's rule of substantially ALL components being manufactured in the USA. So if Made in the USA is important to you, look for something prior to 1996 that actually was hand built in the USA. Sadly, EPA regulations pretty much killed most of the internals being manufactured in the USA.
Chris
I am not sure why. I have never had a problem with Steve even though on several occasions have had problems with his product. He was very matter of fact and spoke clearly... short and to the point. He always took care of the problem. Everybody that has dealt with him knows he is an engineer and not a salesman or customer service rep. This is the advantage of a company like JL. Sure the product is more expensive, but they use that money to ensure a buyers experience on all fronts is top notch. I love my gen III leviathans, but would like to have the form function of JL's or MMATS.
" Does that make him a moderate or is he a liberal commie long haired bastard? Do you have to be hard core, hate all them damned hippies, staunchy stan to be in the totally moral and good club of the righteous? " - AWC
Chris
I am not sure why. I have never had a problem with Steve even though on several occasions have had problems with his product. He was very matter of fact and spoke clearly... short and to the point. He always took care of the problem. Everybody that has dealt with him knows he is an engineer and not a salesman or customer service rep. This is the advantage of a company like JL. Sure the product is more expensive, but they use that money to ensure a buyers experience on all fronts is top notch. I love my gen III leviathans, but would like to have the form function of JL's or MMATS.
I had a bad dealing with him in the late 90s and as a result, I choose not to buy any of his current products. I'd describe my experience with him as more of Jekyll and Hyde versus an engineer pretending to perform customer service, but whatever. I have my own personal reasons for avoiding his products and everyone else is free to spend their money the way they wish to. That's the beauty of the free market.
This sums up my feelings about Zed products pretty well:
Are Zed's amps good? I think they are well designed products.
Would I run one? Sure would.
What would I do in the event of a problem? Toss it in the garbage can because it is not worth my time and frustration to deal with Zed.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
First time talking to him, a couple years ago, was somewhat hardcore. But going into it, was kinda expecting such, considering was asking him the same question basically as the post is. Then was under the impression caps where made in house at mmats and mentioned something about it and he got upset. it was like 2 years ago. the 6150D wasn't even out then. but yea, kinda like his attitude toward american jobs and such. think of him like a drill instructor, maybe sometimes someone you don't always like, but who has experience and knows what is right. something he is upset over, don't know what it is, mabye something in his life. kinda seems like a cool guy, even though people have had bad experiences with him. if you had to go to war, would you want him on your side? maybe, not too sure about his deepest thoughts.
for me, the only reason why want the stuff made in USA is because have been put in jail a couple times by buckers in government, probably the same evil dudes who hang out in China, Russia, North Korea, not to mention US government. and buying USA for me is like a vote against slavery and a saving of my soul form evil RED communist. wish unexsistance on all government feel the world be a better place. pretty upset about it, maybe Steve has story to tell?
The Zed amp may be the better of the two, but I wouldn't want to run the risk of having to deal with Mantz himself for customer support. If someone could 100% assure me that I wouldn't have to ever deal with Mantz in the event of a problem, that is the ONLY way I would own one of his products.
Ok guys, I'm no expert but I've considered both of these amps in my build. How about comparing these two as far as power, quality and features?
From the datasheets:
Some of these are not apples-to-apples comparisons and maybe shouldn't be compared in this way, I don't know. I'm a newb. Both seem to be very high quality and have good reviews.
- The 6150D is rated higher (or 'better') in some key categories, including THD, slew rate and damping factor. The MMATS also has a much smaller footprint, which is perfect for my build.
- The Leviathan has higher overall RMS and input voltage. I think it's interesting that the Zed brochure doesn't rate its efficiency. It talks about how it's usually skewed by manufacturers in their favor. I'd still like to see the Zeds average efficiency rating though.
The one feature I really like about the Zed is the crossover design. There are several different combinations for each pair of channels including bandpass on channels 3+4 (and possibly 5+6? I get confused reading these) . Is it possible to use only the onboard crossovers on the Lev III to achieve 3-way active front stage? If so, not only is the Leviathan a little less expensive, an additional crossover wouldn't be needed. I'm confused on how one would configure this for 3-way active though.
If I was to run channels 1+2 LP on the tweets, 3+4 in BP on the mids and 5+6 HP on the midbass, dont channels 5+6 still need the bottom 30-70hz (depending on the speakers) filtered out? Would the subsonic filter fill this need, or how would this be setup for a 3way active front stage?
Just contempating. Both look like really nice amps. The MMATS might be a little cleaner sound-wise, whereas the Leviathan has more crossover capability and power. Like I mentioned I am new to this and trying to be objective. Which would you all pick with the customer service and manufacturing differences aside? How would you run either of these in a 3-way active front stage?
All things being relatively equal I would take the smaller foot print.
" Does that make him a moderate or is he a liberal commie long haired bastard? Do you have to be hard core, hate all them damned hippies, staunchy stan to be in the totally moral and good club of the righteous? " - AWC
All things being relatively equal I would take the smaller foot print.
Yeah, agreed. I don't have a ton of space. Id really like to know if the Leviathan could do 3way active without an external crossover. I think the MMATS would be excellent but it'd need one from what I'd see, which eats up the space that is saved by the amp alone.
Personally, if I were to chose one, I'd go with the Leviathan.
- proven design
- revision 3, meaning it should be much more reliable, shouldn't overheat, etc...
- wider range for the Xover
- 3rd party tested to put out slightly more power than spec sheet
Since the 6150d, there isn't much info about it. Does it overheat when played for a long time (due to the smaller heatsink area)? I'm pretty sure it puts out @ least rated power but is it reliable?
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
yep, because processing/passive xovers are needed with the mmats (maybe subsonic and something to bandpass the upper channels, but only 1 xover bc the amp has 1 also, right?) bought an alto mobile processor to pair with it. the alto is really, really nice. was hoping it was made in Japan, but research points China. So another reason to go Leviathan, for me is, all the xovers needed are on the amp, plus, get to use a Audiocontrol Eq (made in USA of imported parts). not sure if it's all too much better than the alto in such category. it's pretty big just for an EQ, about the size of the mmats amp (width wise, not as long and not as tall). ha
First: The Mmatts claims "Made in USA", Zed claims "Assembled in the USA". To me that's a nod to the Mmats as far as which is "most American" (especially given the current rules to claim "Made in the USA" as the Mmats does).
Second: The Mmats looks "beefier" on the inside. The Zed is really pretty, and if I was taking my audio system to a fashion show, I'd almost certainly take the Zed along, but the Mmats has "more under the hood" than the Zed.
Third: I haven't metered my 6150 yet, since I just got it, and it's not hooked up yet, but history has shown that Mmats amps are very underrated (I have a SQ4160 and M3000 in my GTO). Also, given the hardware difference internally, I would say the same probably holds true with the 6150. Plus, the Zed is not capable of feeding a single subwoofer 1000watts (without using a dual 4ohm sub and taking up four amp channels | two bridged pairs).
if you’re looking for a 6 channel for an active setup (and/or lower powered sub) than the Zed is fine, but if you want an all in one solution that feeds all your speakers a good amount of power, especially the sub, the Mmats is the way to go.
First: The Mmatts claims "Made in USA", Zed claims "Assembled in the USA". To me that's a nod to the Mmats as far as which is "most American" (especially given the current rules to claim "Made in the USA" as the Mmats does).
Second: The Mmats looks "beefier" on the inside. The Zed is really pretty, and if I was taking my audio system to a fashion show, I'd almost certainly take the Zed along, but the Mmats has "more under the hood" than the Zed.
Third: I haven't metered my 6150 yet, since I just got it, and it's not hooked up yet, but history has shown that Mmats amps are very underrated (I have a SQ4160 and M3000 in my GTO). Also, given the hardware difference internally, I would say the same probably holds true with the 6150. Plus, the Zed is not capable of feeding a single subwoofer 1000watts (without using a dual 4ohm sub and taking up four amp channels | two bridged pairs).
if you’re looking for a 6 channel for an active setup (and/or lower powered sub) than the Zed is fine, but if you want an all in one solution that feeds all your speakers a good amount of power, especially the sub, the Mmats is the way to go.
I have ran gen 1 and 3 of the Leviathan and it is a POWERHOUSE. Clean and zero noise. The Gen 1 had some chip issues, but Steve took care of it no problem and the Gen 3 was just incredible. I ran a JBL W15GTI off of the 5&6 bridged to compare it to my Kronos and Minotaur and I would be hard pressed to tell the difference in power, so I think people sometimes get too caught up in this stat and that stat. The Zed is BUILT. Other than having to downsize recently I would do a Zed all day over and over.
" Does that make him a moderate or is he a liberal commie long haired bastard? Do you have to be hard core, hate all them damned hippies, staunchy stan to be in the totally moral and good club of the righteous? " - AWC
Zed Leviathan III VS Mmats 6150d
Also, don't tell my wife.
Linear Mode
