how to introduce time delays? DSP?

[craigolio1]

Hey everyone. First time poster here.

I've been into this hobby for a long time and I'm still rocking some of the gear I started with in the 90's. I'm moving my system into a '01 Subaru Outback (maybe the 10th vehicle it's been in?) and in the process I want to modernize and experiment with time delays to bring all of the channels of my system into phase.

Here is what I have:

Kenwood Excellon CD/iPod HU (can't recall which one)
it has 6 channels out, I use 2 channels out to:
Audio Control 4.1 EQ/Line Driver
4 channels out to:
Audio Control 6XS
This cross over can do 2/4/6 channels in, outputing front HI, Front MID, rear, and sub.

The amplifiers in use now are:
Fronts, HiFonics Odin VIII - 70 watts RMS per channel
Rears, HiFonics Eros VIII - 35 watts RMS per channel
Sub, HiFonics Hercules VIII - 400 watts RMS mono block

I could if I wanted to use:

HiFonics Pluto VIII - 35 watts RMS per channel
to power just the tweeters if I were to go all active. It would be tough to fit the extra amp in my rack though so I would rather not

The HU pushes 4v (I think) down to the processors and some where up to 8v is going to the amps. The inputs on the VIII amps can accept up to 10.6v.

In previous setups the sound has been crystal clear with almost no noise, which I love. I beleive this is partly because the HiFonics VIII amps are very good, and my line levels are higher voltage, allowing me to have the gains on the amps at the lowest settings.

Can anyone reccomend a way that I could introduce a processor, perhaps after the 6XS, that could do some DSP/time delay? I looked at the mini-DSP which I have seen used and reveiwed here, but I'm cautious about it's low voltage preamp outputs. The reviewer recommended using a line driver after it.

I read a "how to" guide on this forum which described how to use the time delays on every speaker/channel in fully active system. It sounded very intriguing so I guess I'm looking for one which can handle either 5 or 7 channels. Do I have to get several and stack them?

Anyhow, as you can see, I'm not famillair with any of these types of processors and would appreciate some input.



Thanks, Craig

[minbari]

first, I am very jelous for your collection of series VIII hifonics. I had a Europa, Thor and Cyclops setup in the 90's with a Plato 10band para for EQ. best sounding, cleanest amplifiiers I ever used.


alot of people use the minidsp and like em. for what you have, the 2x8 or 8x8 would work well. if you use the balanced outputs wired to balanced mode, they will put out about 4v. plenty of voltage for those amplifiers.

[craigolio1]

Thanks for your super fast reply. I love these amps too.

My first amp ever was a VIII Cyclops. I sold it and bought other stuff before I knew anything. Then I bought the Odin and the Pluto. They have been in every car I have had since I was 19... I'm 35 now. I once ran six 8" woofers in mono on the Odin. It just ate it up and laughed at me. I have used various sub amps but always wanted another VIII mono-block. I keep an eye out for them but good looking ones are well priced, for good rason. Last week, the Hercules practically fell into my lap at a price that was unheard of and so, my collection is complete!!! Hence my renewed interest in a fancy install. Ahhhh I love this stuff.

I see you're still loyal to ZED.

Anyhow, I'll look into those processors then. I always thought a balanced output needed to go into a balanced input, like the old Soundstreams used to have.

Any thoughts on the JBL MS8? I love that it tunes everything automatically for you using a binaural microphone. It only outputs 3.8v but I think it would still sound OK. With the built in cross overs on either the mini-DSP or the MS8 I could eliminate the 6XS from my rack. Make space for the extra amp.

I would likely keep the in dash EQ though. I like the simplicity of knobs.

Thoughts?

Craig

[minbari]

I can almost top that, lol.

my very first system was a series VII odin driving a set of Orion 1s 1" silk domes, Orion 4" midrange, Blues 6.5" midbass, and two Blues 12" subs in a ported box. All on passives run in 3 channel mode. considering the amount of power, it sounded amazing and got pretty loud.

Yup, Stephen Mantz is still putting out a top level product.

if you look in the manual. the balanced output they use on the miniDSP are a three wire connector. you jumper two of the connections together and use the positive section for signal. it gives you half of the 8V potential that the balanced connectors are capable of, but even at 4V, you can get good signal to an amplifier without a line driver.

not a fan of auto-tune myself. you been doing audio long enough to know how to tune it yourself, right? Yes, the 6XS would be redundant with just about any DSP, they all have xover, EQ, T/A, level control in em.

[craigolio1]

Originally Posted by minbari

I can almost top that, lol.

my very first system was a series VII odin driving a set of Orion 1s 1" silk domes, Orion 4" midrange, Blues 6.5" midbass, and two Blues 12" subs in a ported box. All on passives run in 3 channel mode. considering the amount of power, it sounded amazing and got pretty loud.

I love it! The fellow I bought my Cyclops from was running it into three MTX Blue Thunder 12" (remember the old ones with the blue cones?) in the back of a Suzuki Swift. Talk about taking your wind away. "Turn right here. What, you want a beer? No no, turn... ... you're dating Heather Locklear... turn rig.... ahhh forget it." You know it was only a 100 watt amp. I'm glad to see Steve Mantz is still producing. Hopefully when his time comes they've figured out a way to preserve his inteligence. You don't see any big passive cross over arrays anymore. That's a dead or dying art I think. You used to see big boards full of coils and caps, etc. Things of beauty. But out with the old in with the new as they say. Someone should start a support group for geezers to talk about the old days. I love that you're using the wave guides. Those came on pretty big late in the 90's. Are those hold overs or can you still get them?

Doing audio for a long time is an understatement. I bought a Sherwood pull-out tape deck when I was 15, for my '79 Chevette. Out of high scool I trained to be an installer and never made a go of it. Instead I got into home theater and have been installing in the home ever since. Car audio has remained a hobby but I havn't kept up with the advancments, or the new hot brands, which is why I just buy old stuff. There are lots of automatic correction products available for home audio gear and you are absolutely correct sir... they are not nearly as good as a trained ear (with in reason of course). We always use them as a starting point. Unfortunately, and this is the truth of it, I just don't have time to spend hours tuning in my car anymore. Three kids, two jobs, blah blah. Worlds smallest violin right? I just thought the automatic tuning would be a great place to start. But if it's that bad then what's the point?

On page 8 of the manual for the 2x8 it shows a DIP switch block wich selects an output of either 8v balanced/4v unbalanced or 4vbalanced/2v unbalanced. There is no mention of using the wiring scheme you mentioned to get 4 volts unbalanced. Perhaps they've made a revision?

Thanks again for your feed back.