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Old 12-30-2016   #51
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Wow this was a very interesting thread up to the point it got all Caraudio.com ish.

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Old 12-30-2016   #52
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasinbass View Post
Wow this was a very interesting thread up to the point it got all Caraudio.com ish.
a little schooling is good for those participating as well as the bystanders who are reading along

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Old 12-30-2016   #53
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
a little schooling is good for those participating as well as the bystanders who are reading along
Actually I was just thinking the same thing, and I was starting to reread to see if I could take away something positive from it.

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Old 12-30-2016   #54
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

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Originally Posted by chasinbass View Post
Actually I was just thinking the same thing, and I was starting to reread to see if I could take away something positive from it.
i think the last post i made with the wiki article was nice. pretty good read to explain why and how we hear a center image and how its not just "psycho acoustics" tricking our brain

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Old 12-30-2016   #55
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
i think the last post i made with the wiki article was nice. pretty good read to explain why and how we hear a center image and how its not just "psycho acoustics" tricking our brain
I will definitely give it a read. Thanks

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Old 12-30-2016   #56
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
Out of curiosity, list me a few 8" drivers that can play lower (below 100hz) and still have a high db?
Pro audio drivers are typically designed for vented applications to give you any sort of low-end. That being said, a properly isolated and damped enclosure space will easily get you down to 100hz with authority. Given that they are installed optimally, much of the range between 60-150hz is dominated by the geometry of the cabin in relation to the placement of the Speaker anyway.

In relation to your question - in order to be efficient you have to sacrifice low end. That's the trade off. It becomes a matter of balance, although many tried-and-true pro audio drivers (like the aforementioned Beyma) ride that line very well.

While I exclusively use pro-audio drivers in my install, they can be difficult to integrate without some form of processing. If you're looking for a "plug-n-play" type solution you might be better of buying a set of components. "Loud" is a very subjective term and some of the pro-audio leaning component sets could possible be plenty loud for you.

A few random side-notes: dispersion is determined wholly by the cone size. Aberrant anomalies above the point of beaming between different drivers of the same radiating area are typically caused by things like the physical characteristics of the radiating surface (like cone material) and shape of the cone. The low qts of pro-audio style drivers is a result of the motor, which dominates the compliance in relation to the mechanical damping of the speaker. I really low-q motor is more efficient but will have less energy storage around fs, which is why you don't get a boost in the lower range range like you would in a more conventional driver with a higher total q.

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Old 12-30-2016   #57
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLEclipse View Post
A few random side-notes: dispersion is determined wholly by the cone size. Aberrant anomalies above the point of beaming between different drivers of the same radiating area are typically caused by things like the physical characteristics of the radiating surface (like cone material) and shape of the cone. The low qts of pro-audio style drivers is a result of the motor, which dominates the compliance in relation to the mechanical damping of the speaker. I really low-q motor is more efficient but will have less energy storage around fs, which is why you don't get a boost in the lower range range like you would in a more conventional driver with a higher total q.
nah man, didnt you see that pro audio drivers are designed to do otherwise

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Old 12-30-2016   #58
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLEclipse View Post
Pro audio drivers are typically designed for vented applications to give you any sort of low-end. That being said, a properly isolated and damped enclosure space will easily get you down to 100hz with authority. Given that they are installed optimally, much of the range between 60-150hz is dominated by the geometry of the cabin in relation to the placement of the Speaker anyway.

In relation to your question - in order to be efficient you have to sacrifice low end. That's the trade off. It becomes a matter of balance, although many tried-and-true pro audio drivers (like the aforementioned Beyma) ride that line very well.

While I exclusively use pro-audio drivers in my install, they can be difficult to integrate without some form of processing. If you're looking for a "plug-n-play" type solution you might be better of buying a set of components. "Loud" is a very subjective term and some of the pro-audio leaning component sets could possible be plenty loud for you.

A few random side-notes: dispersion is determined wholly by the cone size. Aberrant anomalies above the point of beaming between different drivers of the same radiating area are typically caused by things like the physical characteristics of the radiating surface (like cone material) and shape of the cone. The low qts of pro-audio style drivers is a result of the motor, which dominates the compliance in relation to the mechanical damping of the speaker. I really low-q motor is more efficient but will have less energy storage around fs, which is why you don't get a boost in the lower range range like you would in a more conventional driver with a higher total q.
Go easy on me, but is it kind of like you cant have it all in one Speaker - loud midrange and really strong lows ?

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http://mobileaudioforum.com/forum/sh...ed-from-CA-com
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Old 12-30-2016   #59
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

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Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
Well the only drive I found on the link that you suggested that was 6.5" and 4 ohms was the FAITAL PRO 6FE200 6.5". The specs are similar, but are you suggesting that this driver VS the Hertz would lay identical at half the cost??

I was considering pro audio speakers at one time and was looking closely at these...

B&C Speakers

""
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Old 12-30-2016   #60
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasinbass View Post
Go easy on me, but is it kind of like you cant have it all in one Speaker - loud midrange and really strong lows ?
for the most part. or you can go up in cone area to try to squeeze out extra low end. the way i look at it.. so long as im getting decent output down to 100hz, i can figure cabin gain will help with the rest while using a typical 80 or 90 hz crossover. (no, you dont need to have your front speakers play super low to have nice, authoritative, up front midbass)

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Old 12-30-2016   #61
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arete View Post
I was considering pro audio speakers at one time and was looking closely at these...

B&C Speakers
those look pretty interesting

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Old 12-30-2016   #62
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasinbass View Post
Go easy on me, but is it kind of like you cant have it all in one Speaker - loud midrange and really strong lows ?
NVM just found this Speakerplans.com and its explaining it all in a way I can understand it. And yes I or it answered my question lol.

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Old 12-31-2016   #63
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
im going to have to say this. you think a driver with an FS of 120hz and 1.5mm of xmax is going to play lower and cleaner than a driver with an FS of 70hz and has 5mm xmax? lets not forget that hertz also overstates their sensitivity ratings.

also, which one would you want to use? one that has a relatively flat frequency response up to 4k (+-3db), or one that has a 10db swing up to 4k?






im not trying to make the guys mind up for him, but i am here to help. its clear which one is the better option and ill do the best i can to help him make the better choice instead of just throwing out my favorite brands name


reason i didnt answer your question about RMS is because its not nearly as important as people make it out to be. we listen to music, not 0db ref. level tones
Wow! Ok now that you guys are hopefully done arguing I would just like to say I respect all opinions here as it seems the both of you know more then I do and are helping a ton! It was definitely a good read to come home from work to.

Getting back to the thread, which graph is which speaker? AND which would I want to use, the flat frequency or the 10 db swing? I'm going to guess the 10 db swing up to 4k would be the one you want as it's separating the music better (instruments, detail, etc)... correct?

I also took a look at the JBLs I have and there 85 rms with 86 db thru passive filters. These drivers are 130-150 rms with 95-97 db and I'm gonna run them active so the sound will be much improved which makes my mind up to stick with 6.5" drivers.

Can you help me pull up side by side frequency response graphs of the Hertz SV 165.1 vs the Faital Pro 6FE200 drivers please? (this computer wont copy & paste).
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Old 12-31-2016   #64
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
Wow! Ok now that you guys are hopefully done arguing I would just like to say I respect all opinions here as it seems the both of you know more then I do and are helping a ton! It was definitely a good read to come home from work to.

Getting back to the thread, which graph is which speaker? AND which would I want to use, the flat frequency or the 10 db swing? I'm going to guess the 10 db swing up to 4k would be the one you want as it's separating the music better (instruments, detail, etc)... correct?

I also took a look at the JBLs I have and there 85 rms with 86 db thru passive filters. These drivers are 130-150 rms with 95-97 db and I'm gonna run them active so the sound will be much improved which makes my mind up to stick with 6.5" drivers.

Can you help me pull up side by side frequency response graphs of the Hertz SV 165.1 vs the Faital Pro 6FE200 drivers please? (this computer wont copy & paste).
You want a flat, linear response. Any sort of peaks, dips, or swings indicate design flaws. The beymas are the flat ones that also include the (very impressive if I must say) distortion plots.

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Old 12-31-2016   #65
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
You want a flat, linear response. Any sort of peaks, dips, or swings indicate design flaws. The beymas are the flat ones that also include the (very impressive if I must say) distortion plots.

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When you get a chance, can you take a look at both graphs for me and tell me what you see with each please?
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Old 12-31-2016   #66
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
When you get a chance, can you take a look at both graphs for me and tell me what you see with each please?
One has a relatively flat curve in an unsmooyhed graph while the other one still has dips and peaks and has a massive swing even with a bunch of smoothing and has some blips in the (also smoothed) impedance graph.

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Old 12-31-2016   #67
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
One has a relatively flat curve in an unsmooyhed graph while the other one still has dips and peaks and has a massive swing even with a bunch of smoothing and has some blips in the (also smoothed) impedance graph.

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Which one is flatter? Fatal?
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Old 12-31-2016   #68
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Never mind I figured that out.

I was gonna match the Hertz SV with a Hertz ST 25 compression tweeter, but might as well scrap that too.
Care to recommend a good super tweet to match the Faital?
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Old 12-31-2016   #69
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

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Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
Never mind I figured that out.

I was gonna match the Hertz SV with a Hertz ST 25 compression tweeter, but might as well scrap that too.
Care to recommend a good super tweet to match the Faital?
Hlcds. Aka, horn loaded compression drivers. Don't bother with super tweeters. Try to get in contact with Eric Steven's. He still makes them

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Question Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Have an opinion on Alphard Audio?
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Old 01-01-2017   #71
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
Have an opinion on Alphard Audio?
I'm gonna seem like a Debbie downer, but... trash. All of these Car audio companies that try to pull off pro audio style drivers suck at it. Seriously, stick to real pro audio stuff and chose carefully and you can have a kickass system

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Question Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

How about Crescendo? There PWX-6 drivers?
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Old 01-01-2017   #73
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
How about Crescendo? There PWX-6 drivers?
im guessing your getting suggestions from a facebook group like "I just wanna bang", or the steve meade forum? seriously, theres not going to be other pro audio style drivers that rival the brands that usspeaker sells for the money

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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

I run the hertz hsk 165 (non xl) with vifa xt25 tweets, hcx 165 in the Rear. I have the bit 10 running to the front stage. I run my jeep doorless and top less about 8-9 months out of the year. I'm also on 35s and have a glass pack exhaust cut right before the rear axle. Not only can I hear my music over wind noise and tire noise, but so can 2 jeeps behind me (with them running doorless and top less and no music playing) on the highway when I go full volume. The only problem I have issues with is the sub, but there aren't very many fixes with that for my setup. I absolutely love my hsk set

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Old 01-04-2017   #75
 
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Default Re: Upgrading Components To SPL Sound!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
im guessing your getting suggestions from a facebook group like "I just wanna bang", or the steve meade forum? seriously, theres not going to be other pro audio style drivers that rival the brands that usspeaker sells for the money
No. I spoke to someone who ran the Faital Pro's who then switched to Crescendo with much better results. Hence the reason I asked. That's comparing apples to apples in my book.
Also, a local shop demo'd his truck for me which was all DD audio equipment.
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