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Old 1 Week Ago   #1
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Default backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Hey guys,

I have been on here a while and gone back and forth on gear for a while...

I am settled on gear (at least for now :P) but now Im throwing aground changing cars before I do my install and want some thoughts on the audio setups
Currently I have a 2012 Audi A5 with the Concert factory radio (not replaceable, well Alpine has a radio in the EU that is $2000++ so that's not an option, and there are a couple crappy Android HU's but they all seem very cheap and dicey so they aren't options either).... The Factory audio is ran via copper to the trunk to the amp. I will be running Front stage and sub only
I have currently settled on
1. Factory HU feeding
2. factory Amp (I haven't found a good way to completely by-pass the amp like I thought) feeding
3. JL Fix82 feeding
4. JL Twk 88 feeding
5. JL HD900/5 feeding
6. IDMax 10 d2v4
7. SEAS Prestige 27TFFNC/G (H1396) 1" Textile Dome Tweeter3
8. SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, 6.5" Woofer
9. sound deadening as needed
I have a Raspberry Pi with HiFiberry (digital output) that is controlled by a 7" tablet that will be fed into the JL TWK for audio playback. The factory radio will be used for very light Radio playing (when the financee is in the car) and Audiobook playback off SD Card (I don't want the audiobooks on the R-Pi because I would loose my place if I listened to any tunes :P

There are a few things that I don't like about my current car, and I've been getting a hankering for a nice engine tune that the newer engine can do ;-)

So I'm debating on upgrading to either a couple year newer A5 or possibly an S5

If I upgrade my car, how much difference would I see getting a car with the upgraded factory audio system that used a MOST (Fiber Optic) audio network and would allow me to completely by-pass the factory amp... I would need to use a MOBridge device to connect to the MOST network, I'm not 100% sure if I would use a MOBridge with a built in DSP, or just the converter and still use the JL Twk ( I need to look at features and inputs to make sure I can still hook up the Raspberry Pi) The DA1 is 100% digital so I would need to figure out a toslink switch with a remote switch button (or add one in place of the push button on the switch box), The DA2 gives analog output but doesn't appear to do any summing etc, the DA3 is a full DSP but doesn't have any extra inputs so it wouldn't be able to have the R-Pi connected... so of these it looks like the DA1 and a toslink switch would be the option, but I am open to hear others thoughts and experiences!

How much difference will I hear in the Audio going from copper feeding the JL Fix vs fiber feeding a MoBridge? Is it worth narrowing my search down to only cars with the upgraded audio system, or will there be only a tiny difference and not worth limiting my search?

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

I can't answers your question about the sound difference, but typically speaking upgraded factory audio system costs usually 2-3 grand more. You can add that money to your set budget and you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Definitely go s5 Haha! Or rs5? 😉

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Old 1 Week Ago   #3
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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by jku89 View Post
I can't answers your question about the sound difference, but typically speaking upgraded factory audio system costs usually 2-3 grand more. You can add that money to your set budget and you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Definitely go s5 Haha! Or rs5? 😉

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I'm looking at used so the audio systems don't add much to the price of the car... the big difference is it cuts available cars in about half or less... The S5 would be a stretch but if I can find one at the top end of my budget it is 100% an option, but a well tuned A5 is 100% in the budget

would I be better saving a few bucks on the car, get the same HU I currently have, and spend a few more bucks on different speakers?

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

I'll be honest, I have never heard a digital aftermarket system in a vehicle, so I cannot comment the differences, but I will say it gets more complicated. I replaced the head unit in my mom's Volvo, which is fiber optic and everything is ran through the stereo. If I wanted to keep her factory stuff, it was just going to be more of a hassle to get it to work. Personally keeping it simple would be better in my eyes. Feed the signal into a dsp, audison is what I know, so I can only comment on that particular one, bu,t obviously a favorite is the helix. If you are going for true surround sound or something then sure I can see where the digital aspect will be worth the extra hassle but the simple installs can sound amazing as Well so it's really what you want ypur end game to sound like

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Old 1 Week Ago   #5
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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

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Originally Posted by jku89 View Post
I'll be honest, I have never heard a digital aftermarket system in a vehicle, so I cannot comment the differences, but I will say it gets more complicated. I replaced the head unit in my mom's Volvo, which is fiber optic and everything is ran through the stereo. If I wanted to keep her factory stuff, it was just going to be more of a hassle to get it to work. Personally keeping it simple would be better in my eyes. Feed the signal into a dsp, audison is what I know, so I can only comment on that particular one, bu,t obviously a favorite is the helix. If you are going for true surround sound or something then sure I can see where the digital aspect will be worth the extra hassle but the simple installs can sound amazing as Well so it's really what you want ypur end game to sound like

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Yep I am keeping the factory head unit because EVERYTHING in the car is routed through it, you cant change the temp of the AC without it being displayed on the HU screen. The MoBridge is what a couple other Audi guys on the forum used to go from the MOST fiber optic signal to amps etc...

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

So if you get a vehicle without the premium system, is it the same way?

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by jku89 View Post
So if you get a vehicle without the premium system, is it the same way?

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There are 4 audio options
1. courus radio (cheapest option that i have only seen in 1 car) copper to the AMP, not sure on speaker setup
2. Concert (in the majority of cars it seems) Copper to the AMP 10 speaker setup (Center, tweeters in dash corners, 8" in doors, tweeters and woofers in rear, and sub ) Im not planning on using the center channel at all currently
3. B&O (I have actually seen a couple Concert radios with B&O speakers if so they are Copper to the AMP. Most B&O speakers are in option 4) This is i think a 12 or 14 speaker setup, tweets in door sails, mids in dash corners, center, 8" in doors, rears are either 2 way or 3 way components Im not 100% sure and really dont care, and a sub
4. is the upgraded system either with the 10 speakers in option 2 or B&O speakers in option 3... this system has back up camera, NAV and the MOST fiber running to the AMP.

Im really not concerned if the car has the B&O speakers or not, so really I am debating between option 2 and 4. I really dont care about NAV, I use my phone for that if I need it, so the real difference is copper to the factory AMP to the JL FIX (To clean up factory TA EQ etc), OR most fiber optic cable to a Mobridge product (completely by-passing all factory TA EQ etc), to either amp OR to a JL TWK dsp.

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Are you dead set on the jl fix? Are you wanting to use the other speakers in the system or turn them off and just use your new set up?

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by jku89 View Post
Are you dead set on the jl fix? Are you wanting to use the other speakers in the system or turn them off and just use your new set up?

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I want to keep it as simple as possible. I currently own everything listed in the first post. I was going to start working on the audio in my car but started thinking about some different options on the car that got me thinking about maybe selling it and upgrading :P

The FIX is needed if I stick with the copper to the trunk to clean up the signal before the DSP. If I get a car with a MOST setup then the FIX will go away and I will go with the MOBridge etc... I am not 100% set on the TWK, but again I own it and hate to sell it and loose money on it jsut to buy a different DSP, and the TWK has all the features I want so Im not sure there is a real reason to replace it.

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

A lot of the dsps can clean up the signal and deequalize it. I had a bit one in the BMW and a bit ten in my jeep currently and BMW I just took the signal before the amp and let the bit one control everything... in the jeep, I do have an after market head unit, but even before that, I just removed oem amp completely. If you can do that, that woukd definitely be easier as most units have digital in so intheory it is a lot easier

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Problem with a lot of oem amps is the volume is controlled through it. And a lot of people (me included) are picky about processors and don't want to be tied to just a couple because it has a signal de-screwer in it. The FIX keeps integration fairly simple and has a 10 band eq that's great for tonal shaping. What I like best about the FIX is it defeats any factory time alignment that might be there. No way I would have gotten anywhere close to a clean signal in my Jeep without it since I have the U-Connect 8.4a. Now that Idatalink has the Maestro AR coming out at some point that should be a game changer. And PAC already has a unit out that will bypass the factory amp in a lot of vehicles while keeping all factory controls.

'14 Grand Cherokee Limited, OEM U-Connect 8.4a, JL Fix 82, c-dsp 6x8, Arc xdi1200.6v2, Soundstream pn4.520d, stock rears controlled properly by minidsp 2x4 with rear fill plug-in, ID15v3, SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, Seas Neo Aluminum...Rearfill done properly is a helluva drug!
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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
Problem with a lot of oem amps is the volume is controlled through it. And a lot of people (me included) are picky about processors and don't want to be tied to just a couple because it has a signal de-screwer in it. The FIX keeps integration fairly simple and has a 10 band eq that's great for tonal shaping. What I like best about the FIX is it defeats any factory time alignment that might be there. No way I would have gotten anywhere close to a clean signal in my Jeep without it since I have the U-Connect 8.4a. Now that Idatalink has the Maestro AR coming out at some point that should be a game changer. And PAC already has a unit out that will bypass the factory amp in a lot of vehicles while keeping all factory controls.
I unfortunately lost my uconnect in a rain storm I was caught in. I would have loved to have kept it, but I do like my pioneer a lot more.

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

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I unfortunately lost my uconnect in a rain storm I was caught in. I would have loved to have kept it, but I do like my pioneer a lot more.

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I'd be lost without my U-Connect. Too much is tied into it. My Grand Cherokee is pretty well optioned out.

'14 Grand Cherokee Limited, OEM U-Connect 8.4a, JL Fix 82, c-dsp 6x8, Arc xdi1200.6v2, Soundstream pn4.520d, stock rears controlled properly by minidsp 2x4 with rear fill plug-in, ID15v3, SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, Seas Neo Aluminum...Rearfill done properly is a helluva drug!
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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

bilbo6209 did you find that hot A5 or S5 yet?!! Since you are already thinking about upgrading,.... yeah I would go ahead to upgrade the car first so that we don't have to think about another car for the next few years!

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

I'm working on one at a dealer... very low mile A5, but with the newer engine that can take 91, 93 or E85 tune (or all three switchable ;-) ) The E85 tune brings the car up to just over 400hp out of a turbo 2.0 in line 4 (i know thew e85 doesn't get near the gas milage, and being that this is my daily driver i will most likely run the CostCo 92oct fuel 99% of the time). And this would fulfill all my requirements on the audio upgrade. I would need to get a MoBridge but all else is the same as my current A5

But that being said I did just drive a few year older Audi TTS it was very fun but much more rough... not sure if I would want it as a daily driver, BUT it could take any single or double din radio i wanted to throw at it, so that would take the place of the FIX or Mobridge...hmmm

The sticking point right now on the A5 is the car has summer tires on it and I am trying to get the dealer to either put on a set of GOOD all seasons, or winters on a set of pull off rims included in the price. Im not in a huge hurry and if it takes a few months to find "the right car" Im 100% fine with that. The TTS is just a little rough, harsher suspension, not quite as many bells and whistles, a little noisier etc... so I need to go drive it again to see what I really think.

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Get an Audi R8 and you won't care about the stereo. It is one slick{sick} ride.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

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Get an Audi R8 and you won't care about the stereo. It is one slick{sick} ride.
I would agree, but unfortunately I don't have an extra 80 to 100+ k laying around lol

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

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I'd be lost without my U-Connect. Too much is tied into it. My Grand Cherokee is pretty well optioned out.
Ahh I have a Rubicon, and thankfully not too much tied intpo the uconnect. Way to many electronics for my liking though!

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

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I'm working on one at a dealer... very low mile A5, but with the newer engine that can take 91, 93 or E85 tune (or all three switchable ;-) ) The E85 tune brings the car up to just over 400hp out of a turbo 2.0 in line 4 (i know thew e85 doesn't get near the gas milage, and being that this is my daily driver i will most likely run the CostCo 92oct fuel 99% of the time). And this would fulfill all my requirements on the audio upgrade. I would need to get a MoBridge but all else is the same as my current A5

But that being said I did just drive a few year older Audi TTS it was very fun but much more rough... not sure if I would want it as a daily driver, BUT it could take any single or double din radio i wanted to throw at it, so that would take the place of the FIX or Mobridge...hmmm

The sticking point right now on the A5 is the car has summer tires on it and I am trying to get the dealer to either put on a set of GOOD all seasons, or winters on a set of pull off rims included in the price. Im not in a huge hurry and if it takes a few months to find "the right car" Im 100% fine with that. The TTS is just a little rough, harsher suspension, not quite as many bells and whistles, a little noisier etc... so I need to go drive it again to see what I really think.
Don't know much about the Audi engines or tunes, but I ran a 30/70 e85 mix on my old 335i and freaking loved it! Who cares about the gas mileage! I was only getting about 10-11 anyways Lol! What is the go to tuner for Audi? Cobb?

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

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Don't know much about the Audi engines or tunes, but I ran a 30/70 e85 mix on my old 335i and freaking loved it! Who cares about the gas mileage! I was only getting about 10-11 anyways Lol! What is the go to tuner for Audi? Cobb?

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ARP is one of the very well known ones, Stasis is another one.

Stage 1 (so just a chip) E85 tune takes the stock HP from 211 up to 313 and TQ from 270 to 388

Stage 2 (Intake and at least down pipe but prefered full turbo back exhaust) goes from HP 211 to 318 and TQ 270 to 409

Personally I want to do exhaust for the sound, but I dont see a huge reason to do it for HP and TQ gains

The great thing about ARP tunes is for an additional $135 you get a fully loaded chip, this gives you the all the tunes; Stock, 91 oct, 93 oct, and e85 so no matter what kind of fuel you can get on the road you are covered.

Ya in my current stock A5 I'm averaging just over 20mpg :P

APR says the stock 0-60 will for from 6.15 down to 4.6 with stage 2 e85 tune (stage 1 93 oct drops to 5.5)

still waiting on the dealer, the salesman was bringing my request to his manager... I found several other cars that are similarly spec'd out for up to $3000 cheaper, so we're waiting on the manager now.

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Well I've decided to upgrade the car but not with the one at teh local dealer, they wouldn't bring their price down to a fair price (they were about $2000 to $4000 over comparable cars out of state).

Being that I am buying used, I am not just waiting on the "right" car to pop up for sale. I'm looking for a Audi A5 either 2013 or 2014 most likely unless someone really under-prices a 2015... Either Premium plus with NAV, sport package and 19" wheels, OR Prestige package with s-line package (this includes all the possible bells and whistles on the car)

I did find one down in LA that someone had built a wooden cabinet that hung off the rear deck for their sub. Its kind of funny because I had thought about this same idea But it had more miles than I want on the car i will buy.

It hopefully wont take too long to find the "right car" It seems like quite a few of what I am looking for are coming off lease. I am being very picky on color, miles and it MUST have nav and sport package or s-line. If it has the upgraded B&O audio (from everything I have read this only improved the factory DSP, people are claiming the speakers are 100% the same but I haven't confirmed this). The only thing is if the car has the factory B&O system it is already a 3 way front stage (8" woofers in low doors, tweeters in door sails, and 3 or 3.5" mids in the corner of the dash and windshield and mid in the center dash that i I would be disconnecting) Im thinking I will stick with a 2way front stage to start with

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Yeah if you already thinking S-Line,... then wait a little and it must be an S-line!! Otherwise it'll drive you crazy every time you see an S-Line on the road later!

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Default Re: backward, help me decide if I should upgrade car :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by diy.phil View Post
Yeah if you already thinking S-Line,... then wait a little and it must be an S-line!! Otherwise it'll drive you crazy every time you see an S-Line on the road later!
Yep I agree

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