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Old 07-08-2011   #251
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Let me start by saying I don't no much, but pond liner ? I have a bunch of rubber roofing around would this be the same sound deadening effect as people are talking about on this thread ?
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Old 07-08-2011   #252
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wacky7 View Post
does anyone use Herculiner do it yourself or Rino liner? or use rubber flooring 1/8 thick mat that you cut out?and use 3M spray glue?
Bedliners aren't great vibration dampers. Better to use them for their intended purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iroller View Post
Let me start by saying I don't no much, but pond liner ? I have a bunch of rubber roofing around would this be the same sound deadening effect as people are talking about on this thread ?
Rubber sheeting can be used as a barrier - anything that is dense and limp will work. Getting to 1 lb/ft² is a reasonable goal. The pond liner I've looked at will take 3 or 4 layers to get there, so you'd need to keep an eye on total thickness. You don't need to glue a barrier to the floor - gravity and carpet will hold it in place. You want to minimize the use of adhesives in these projects - nothing makes simple body work complicated faster than layers of stuff glued to the sheet metal.
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Old 08-17-2011   #253
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I have to ask -
Has anyone posted an MSDS sheet on any of the car specific brands yet?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm !!!
I know from what i have read so far- that quite a few posts have scared people out of using construction specific materials due to the cancer warnings.
I will keep reading this thread to see if that has taken place yet(only 25% way through this thread).

If no one has posted MSDS for car specific - PLEASE DO Thanks in advance,

Hell lets post MSDS for both types then compare hmmmmmmm!!!!

DEATHNERVE
Death get on my nerves- especially the deaths cause by cancer related materials.
Its somewhat upsetting how some can explain = that some types cause cancer but show no proof ( only show examples of how there has been cancer related issues to something that is NOT --related to the subject at hand) I DO and will repeat I DO understand the examples shown "chinesedrywall" and I am glad the examples were displayed... SO now i want to see what car specific brands/types have absolutely no cancer causing elements

Please show proof of cancer related isssues for the example at hand = someone using car specific or construction specific materials in a vehicle then due to this... and this only - now have cancer

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm scare tactics!!!!!!!!!

While were at it lets show some spec sheets and testing data for ratings - for as many car specific and construction specific that we can accumulate
hhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm
if i were selling a product that was that much better than another i would prove it with data.
If i were selling a product that was that much safer than another i would prove it with data

You know like tires for example - different tread life , speed ratings and so forth
or speakers - different ohms, sensitivity, rms

many items that are designed for the same specific use are not created equally

so lets take say dynamat's sound deadnig specific material and compare it to Raamaat's sound seading specific material and test results on same car same ,etc,,,,,,, to see what performs better

there are so many items we purchase in our lifetime that have been tested against the comparable item- we get the choice to save money and get crap finger from the cheaper toilet paper, or we spend more to not get crap finger
I want this option
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Old 08-17-2011   #254
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Here's a friggin' page with an MSDS link at the bottom. Yes, the link works. Yes, I have this; in the 5 gal. can. It's good; can't say anything bad about it vs. Spectrum, except that this damn can is light grey, not black like Spectrum. - 5 points for that, as I will have to put some sort of durable color coating on top of it, so that damn near doubles my work load. And I think it's going to be a cast iron bitch to spray on a sliver car when I do the interior.

Link here: QuietCoat - Leading Sprayable Viscoelastic Polymer for Noise and Vibration Damping
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Old 08-23-2011   #255
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

@ Rudeboy ,

I think I remember posting in a thread where I may have been a lil hostile to you - about a similiar topic of alternatives. Im not sure if it were this forum or another, but i would like to apologize if I was - even the slightest bit. I now realize that my time devoted towards these subjects is nil compared to the amounts you have put in . I appreciate all you have done. Im still trying to play catch up. I m not sure if i have been navigating your site correctly, due to not being able to find any testing or comparisons, maybe I read somewhere that the testing site has been taken down. I wish i could have seen some of those results to get a better understanding. Is there any reason this info has been taken down? Either way I Think I will give up researching and start installing something by October 1st the latest, cant wait till next spring. This new to me subaru is a wonderful car in every aspect other than cabin noise and stereo system. I have to make improvents good or bad. One thing i learned with car hobbies installing something is better than researching online, lil hands on you get to find out facts...... some sooner some later. Although hands on can be a lil rough on the wallet, especially when something fails out of warranty , or fails and causes other damage!!!!!!!!!

........... and to the alternative installer of his 2007 "spring break" care to remove an inner door skin and post some pictures..............

if not im going to assume you sell or work for some roofing materials Co.
or a moderator removed your post of pictures

The more posts i read showing NO hard evidence of success or failure ......the more I think every one has an angle!!!!!!!

disclaimer : the only angle I have is to get the cheapest available working solution that is permanent , it is not to sway any potential buyers of construction products or car products in either direction.
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Old 08-24-2011   #256
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Don't worry about. I don't review products anymore because I now sell products. If Consumer's Reports sold washing machines people would e rightly skeptical of their washing machines reviews. I did it for four years before I decided to take a different approach. When I first got interested in the field in 2005, people were buying pallets of flashing tape and selling it as vibration damper. Some were claiming their asphalt material was butyl, 1/2 mil foil was 4 mil, all sorts of crazy claims. Forum members were claiming that Grace Ice and Water Shield and Dynamat Xtreme were identical products, made on the same line in Ohio. Absolutely wild stuff.

I think that by seeing bogey men behind every tree - roofing material manufacturers couldn't care less about the tiny aftermarket automotive market - you're missing the big picture, essentially accepting the marketing message about how these products should be used and wasting a lot of time trying to find an inexpensive substitute with which to comply. The basic assumption is flawed. Risking an ineffective and unreliable material may be worth considering if you believe you need two or three hundred square feet of vibration. It makes a lot less sense when you understand that you only need twenty or forty. It makes no sense at all if you need if you need 200-300 ft² of one product to equal the performance you'd get with 20-40 ft² of another.

If you're concerned with maximizing SPL, vibration damper is counter productive. If you're trying to reduce noise intrusion, vibration damper plays an important but supporting role. I can promise you that a Lexus isn't a Toyota with layers of vibration damper applied to the sheet metal. I can also tell you, after thousands of e-mails while I was reviewing products, that people using a vibration damper only, or vibration damper and CCF solution are almost always disappointed in the result.

I haven't seen you describe your project objectives
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Old 02-08-2015   #257
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I used some Quick-Roof on one door, and am going to use actual deadener on the other door. Will compare them both in the sun and heat and report back. Won't be for a while, but I will do it. I will say that the Quick-Roof that I used didn't smell at all. And I even left a piece on the heater just to see what would happen and it didn't smell. I can also say that the foil on it was THICK and it conformed to the door pretty well and stuck really well too, so well that I couldn't take it back off when I tried to reposition it. And I applied it in fairly cold weather too. Roughly 10 celcius (50 farenheit). After reading this thread, I am having second guesses about doing it. I don't believe there will be any corrosive side effects though since most undercoatings and anti-rust materials are asphalt based. Heck, the road you drive on is asphalt and no one has attributed that to their car rotting away yet. If anything, I would think that it would prevent corrosion. I'm no pro, but I do want to do my car right and will probably have to remove the Quick-Roof and get something else eventually. I'm just glad I only did the one door and backside of the door panel so my removal shouldn't be too hard.

Kinda sad this thread died. There is some GOOD informative reading here. Since this thread died 4 years ago, suppose the makeup of the Peel n Seal or Quick Rook has changed in the last 4 years? If it has, then maybe the Quick-Roof isn't such a bad option after all. I am going to do some experiments, take pictures, dissolve a piece in thinner, place it on the heater and check the melting point, check to see the result of any dripping or sliding off.

I can't understand how the stuff would drip or run though. Isn't this stuff meant to go on rooftops in the DIRECT sun? I know a lot of roofs use black shingles or dark painted metal roofs to help aid in ice and snow melting off and therefore would get pretty darn hot, perhaps hotter than the interior of a vehicle.
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Old 02-09-2015   #258
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by milburyl View Post
I used some Quick-Roof on one door, and am going to use actual deadener on the other door. Will compare them both in the sun and heat and report back. Won't be for a while, but I will do it. I will say that the Quick-Roof that I used didn't smell at all. And I even left a piece on the heater just to see what would happen and it didn't smell. I can also say that the foil on it was THICK and it conformed to the door pretty well and stuck really well too, so well that I couldn't take it back off when I tried to reposition it. And I applied it in fairly cold weather too. Roughly 10 celcius (50 farenheit). After reading this thread, I am having second guesses about doing it. I don't believe there will be any corrosive side effects though since most undercoatings and anti-rust materials are asphalt based. Heck, the road you drive on is asphalt and no one has attributed that to their car rotting away yet. If anything, I would think that it would prevent corrosion. I'm no pro, but I do want to do my car right and will probably have to remove the Quick-Roof and get something else eventually. I'm just glad I only did the one door and backside of the door panel so my removal shouldn't be too hard.

Kinda sad this thread died. There is some GOOD informative reading here. Since this thread died 4 years ago, suppose the makeup of the Peel n Seal or Quick Rook has changed in the last 4 years? If it has, then maybe the Quick-Roof isn't such a bad option after all. I am going to do some experiments, take pictures, dissolve a piece in thinner, place it on the heater and check the melting point, check to see the result of any dripping or sliding off.

I can't understand how the stuff would drip or run though. Isn't this stuff meant to go on rooftops in the DIRECT sun? I know a lot of roofs use black shingles or dark painted metal roofs to help aid in ice and snow melting off and therefore would get pretty darn hot, perhaps hotter than the interior of a vehicle.
I don't think anyone has suggested asphalt roofing products will cause vehicle corrosion. You've shifted from reality - asphalt products are very ineffective and have sever problems with durability and instead focused on imaginary dire consequences. Asphalt roofing products are so ineffective that you need roughly 10 times as much material to approach the performance of a quality butyl vibration damper. More work, more cost, less benefit. Throw in the high failure rate and you have a value proposition that makes absolutely no sense. If the asphalt melts, it's going to damage carpeting and upholstery, it's not going to rust steel. The fact that it won't cause corrosion has nothing to do with it's performance as a vibration damper. Really a straw man argument.
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Old 02-09-2015   #259
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

milburyl, did you realize the last post before you in this thread was from 2011?? lol
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Old 02-09-2015   #260
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggie-g View Post
milburyl, did you realize the last post before you in this thread was from 2011?? lol
Yup. I did realize that. That's why I had said it's too bad this thread died 4 years ago. I just clicked on it because there was a link on diymobileaudio.com main page. Thought it was a new thread when I first clicked on it, but soon realized it was old. But that shouldn't stop others from chiming in.
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Old 02-09-2015   #261
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
I don't think anyone has suggested asphalt roofing products will cause vehicle corrosion. You've shifted from reality - asphalt products are very ineffective and have sever problems with durability and instead focused on imaginary dire consequences. Asphalt roofing products are so ineffective that you need roughly 10 times as much material to approach the performance of a quality butyl vibration damper. More work, more cost, less benefit. Throw in the high failure rate and you have a value proposition that makes absolutely no sense. If the asphalt melts, it's going to damage carpeting and upholstery, it's not going to rust steel. The fact that it won't cause corrosion has nothing to do with it's performance as a vibration damper. Really a straw man argument.
I believe there was a post in this thread about damage that it could cause and corrosion was brought up.
How could the failure rate be so high? This stuff is designed to be on roofs, in the direct sun. How could heat make something fail that is designed to be directly in the sun?
I will say that the layer of Quick-Roof I put on helped A LOT compared to nothing at all. When you tap on the door, it makes a thud sound instead of a tinny hollow sound. But like I said, I am still going to use both and see the difference first-hand.
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Old 02-09-2015   #262
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
I don't think anyone has suggested asphalt roofing products will cause vehicle corrosion. You've shifted from reality - asphalt products are very ineffective and have sever problems with durability and instead focused on imaginary dire consequences. Asphalt roofing products are so ineffective that you need roughly 10 times as much material to approach the performance of a quality butyl vibration damper. More work, more cost, less benefit. Throw in the high failure rate and you have a value proposition that makes absolutely no sense. If the asphalt melts, it's going to damage carpeting and upholstery, it's not going to rust steel. The fact that it won't cause corrosion has nothing to do with it's performance as a vibration damper. Really a straw man argument.
You really want to listen, absorb, and go with what Don says on this.
Remove the asphalt stuff now and save yourself a nightmare later.


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Old 02-09-2015   #263
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

In addition to what Don has said, I tested peel n seal with a calibrated microphone last year, and it was near worthless. It helped reduce higher frequency resonances, which is why people think that it works, but in comparison to ANY real purpose oriented damper, it just doesn't work. For instance, the main resonant frequency was reduced by less than a full decibel with peel n seal, but Don's product, SDS CLD Tiles, reduced it by about 14 decibels.

Keep in mind that roofing material is meant to be installed on a relatively horizontal surface compared to a car door. And there is a layer of insulation over the product on a roof, where it is directly coupled to the metal that is being heated as the car door.

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Old 02-09-2015   #264
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

The worst thing about Peel & Seal is the mess it can make.

Unknown to us my son's black SUV had peel & seal in the door. One hot day we noticed tar getting on the floor carpet we finally found the source. It was coming out of the bottom of the door, getting on our shoes and tracking it all around. What a mess.

If you what to test it put a piece in the oven, monitor the temperature if it melts before 150 f throw it away.
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Old 02-09-2015   #265
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fishman View Post
The worst thing about Peel & Seal is the mess it can make.

Unknown to us my son's black SUV had peel & seal in the door. One hot day we noticed tar getting on the floor carpet we finally found the source. It was coming out of the bottom of the door, getting on our shoes and tracking it all around. What a mess.

If you what to test it put a piece in the oven, monitor the temperature if it melts before 150 f throw it away.
The MSDS info for the Quick-Roof states its melting point at 200 f. I think I am just going to take off what I have done already, maybe even try putting some Dynamat directly over it if I can't remove it all because it did stick like crazy.

If this stuff is so ineffective, why did Dynamat use asphalt based adhesives back in the 90's and the early part of the 2000's? It was touted as the best thing since sliced bread back then and advertised and marketed using tests that showed a significant difference in noise and better sound. Almost seems like they just want people to buy their current stuff and not buy a product that they sold for 5 times as much as what you could buy from a hardware and labeled as a roofing product.
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Old 02-09-2015   #266
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Why? There was nothing else really on the market until Cascade showed up.
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Old 02-09-2015   #267
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by milburyl View Post
The MSDS info for the Quick-Roof states its melting point at 200 f. I think I am just going to take off what I have done already, maybe even try putting some Dynamat directly over it if I can't remove it all because it did stick like crazy.

If this stuff is so ineffective, why did Dynamat use asphalt based adhesives back in the 90's and the early part of the 2000's? It was touted as the best thing since sliced bread back then and advertised and marketed using tests that showed a significant difference in noise and better sound. Almost seems like they just want people to buy their current stuff and not buy a product that they sold for 5 times as much as what you could buy from a hardware and labeled as a roofing product.
Dynamat Original wasn't like asphalt roofing products. Instead of being mostly asphalt with some rubber added to increase heat tolerance it was a mostly rubber product with asphalt added for mass. It wasn't a great product which is why they haven't made it in 10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fishman View Post
The worst thing about Peel & Seal is the mess it can make.

Unknown to us my son's black SUV had peel & seal in the door. One hot day we noticed tar getting on the floor carpet we finally found the source. It was coming out of the bottom of the door, getting on our shoes and tracking it all around. What a mess.

If you what to test it put a piece in the oven, monitor the temperature if it melts before 150 f throw it away.
The problem with this approach is that the rubber compounds added to the asphalt to increase it's heat tolerance degrade over time. That literally means that the same batch that may hold at 180°F today might melt at 150°F next year.

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Old 02-09-2015   #268
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I've never heard of Reckhorn ABX until I saw it on Amazon. Anyone here use it?

$46 for 2 Sq Ft and butyl based. Specs say it's 80 mil thick including 4 mil hard aluminium.
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Old 02-09-2015   #269
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

It's unlikely it could perform well enough to justify that kind of price.

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http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
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Old 02-09-2015   #270
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post
It's unlikely it could perform well enough to justify that kind of price.
Whoops! $46.99 for 21.3 Sq Ft.

Looks like the stuff has not been on Amazon that long.
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Old 02-09-2015   #271
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by tulse View Post
I've never heard of Reckhorn ABX until I saw it on Amazon. Anyone here use it?

$46 for 2 Sq Ft and butyl based. Specs say it's 80 mil thick including 4 mil hard aluminium.
There we go. Now we're talking a reasonable price. That is actually cheaper than the Quick-Roof per square foot and the description says its butyl rubber.
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Old 02-09-2015   #272
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Keep in mind the actual formulation of butyl matters more than the thickness and aluminum layer specs. Not all butyl is the same, and some of it is pure junk.

For that price, its not likely that its damping grade butyl. I'd love to test some, but I can't justify buying 21 sq feet just to test, especially when odds are it won't work well enough for me to use the rest of it on anything.

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Old 02-09-2015   #273
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I'm willing to try some at that price. Maybe do my floor in it. Seems decent. Their website describes it as a newer version of something else they had previously released. It sounds like a 3rd version actually, since they list it as an improvement over AB-2


https://www.reckhorn.net/pages/damping.php
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Old 02-09-2015   #274
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Willing to send a very small amount to TS2F for testing?

As for the whole Quick Roof/PeelNSeal debate. I've used Quick Roof. It made a noticeable difference, but nothing to write home about. As TS2F has said, PeelNSeal wasn't effective on lower frequencies, Quick Roof may well be similar in that, can't really say one way or the other myself.

I will say this much about the product though. I used an entire roll (which is like 13sqft) to do the trunk of a car I had. Before hand, at moderate volume levels the panel resonance and rattles were horrible outside the car. Afterwards, I was able to dial up the volume 3 more clicks before the rattling and panel resonance seemed as loud/bad. It added weight, so obviously it did do something, but the same amount of say KnuKonceptz's Kno Knoise Kolossus deadener would have done SO MUCH MORE for roughly twice the cost.

Had the car for nearly three years, two of which the Quick Roof was applied in the car. Here in KS, summer temperatures reached triple digits frequently and winters dropped below freezing, so it definitely seen a range of temperatures. In that short time, it never came off or leaked.

Would I buy it again? Not for sound deadening a car. And now I can get it at cost through my workplace, so yeah, I'd not bother with it.

Still be interesting to see how it stacks up against other asphalt based products though.
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I'd be willing to send you a half a square foot or so of the Reckhorn when I order it. I will also send you a piece of the Quick-Roof that I have as it may be different in composition now than what it used to be. I also have some other stuff that has a blue plastic backing on it rather than aluminum. I will send some of all 3.

On a side note, it is dead winter here and it was -33 celcius last night so my electric heat is on all the time. I put a piece of Quick-Roof on the heater overnight and it was in no way runny the next morning. It was softer and EXTREMELY tacky, but no where's near runny or melted.
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