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Old 08-31-2008   #51
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Well I really opened a can of worms with this thread!

In other news, I applied two rolls of the "quick roof" product to my floors this afternoon. Two rolls (32$ worth) did the whole floor front to back with a layer on the back seat and double thick on the thinner areas that needed it.

Went on easy, very sticky and so far smell is not an issue (I suspect having a foil side keeps most of that in anyway). Also appears to do a fine job reducing exhaust and road noise.

I'll report back after leaving it in the sun for a few hours on a hot day (or what serves for a hot day in these parts).
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Old 08-31-2008   #52
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

If you didn't do it, and you feel like pulling the interior again, I'd buy some aluminum foil tape at the hardware shop and go back and put tape down over all the seams. I have been doing that on my raammat on everywhere that isn't sealed up, meaning the floors, walls, etc. But inside doors and what not I didn't bother, but anywhere that touches the carpet or a panel, I covered all the seams to keep the sticky stuff from getting on the panels and carpet. Keeps it cleaner I think.

Just a thought.
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Old 08-31-2008   #53
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
If you didn't do it, and you feel like pulling the interior again, I'd buy some aluminum foil tape at the hardware shop and go back and put tape down over all the seams. I have been doing that on my raammat on everywhere that isn't sealed up, meaning the floors, walls, etc. But inside doors and what not I didn't bother, but anywhere that touches the carpet or a panel, I covered all the seams to keep the sticky stuff from getting on the panels and carpet. Keeps it cleaner I think.

Just a thought.
Good thinking. I don't intend to pull up the carpet and pad ever agian if I can help it, but I'll do that under the back seat since that comes out now and again.
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Old 09-01-2008   #54
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

OK, a little update on my "testing" at this point. I have a piece of Raam Mat, a piece of BQuiet ultimate and a piece of Dynamat Extreme soaking in mineral spirits right now. So far they are all dissolving in Mineral Spirits. I am not going to discuss color yet since it is dark outside and my wife will kill me if I bring stinky mineral spirits into out one bedroom apartment lol
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Old 09-02-2008   #55
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
OK, a little update on my "testing" at this point. I have a piece of Raam Mat, a piece of BQuiet ultimate and a piece of Dynamat Extreme soaking in mineral spirits right now. So far they are all dissolving in Mineral Spirits. I am not going to discuss color yet since it is dark outside and my wife will kill me if I bring stinky mineral spirits into out one bedroom apartment lol
If you have trouble photographing the results while in the jar with the liquid, dumping the contents out on a piece of white paper towel can make it much easier to see:

Dynamat Xtreme


RAAMmat


FatMat

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Old 09-02-2008   #56
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

So what does that tell us? Black is butyl and Brown is asphalt?

Or something else?
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Old 09-02-2008   #57
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
So what does that tell us? Black is butyl and Brown is asphalt?

Or something else?
Yup, proved to 100% accurate for every product I've tested - black is buty;l and brown is asphalt. You can also heat it 180°F to see if it melts (asphalt) or light the samples on fire, but you have to have burnt a lot of products before you can really tell that way - asphalt is harder to ignite and liquifies before burning. Butyl burns more aggressively and drips little burning missiles Mineral spirits is the easiest and most reliable test I've found.

It also shows up some interesting differences in butyl composition although I don't presume to know exactly what the differences mean. Asphalt dissolves completely. Butyl breaks down, but never goes into solution. Some products leave the liquid completely clear with big chunks of solids at the bottom. Others create much finer particles.

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Old 09-02-2008   #58
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

GLN305, I purchased one the Raamat rolls from you. I'm wondering if the one you sold me is from the batch you were having trouble with?

I haven't installed it yet, so a heads up would be nice. Actually mentioning that you were having problems with it upfront would have been even better.

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Old 09-02-2008   #59
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF150 View Post
GLN305, I purchased one the Raamat rolls from you. I'm wondering if the one you sold me is from the batch you were having trouble with?

I haven't installed it yet, so a heads up would be nice. Actually mentioning that you were having problems with it upfront would have been even better.
No, the rolls I sold weren't the ones I was having trouble with, I just didn't want to support Raam Mat at that point so it wasn't going in my vehicle. Rest easy, I didn't sell you deadening that I knew was defective.
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Old 09-02-2008   #60
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF150 View Post
GLN305, I purchased one the Raamat rolls from you. I'm wondering if the one you sold me is from the batch you were having trouble with?

I haven't installed it yet, so a heads up would be nice. Actually mentioning that you were having problems with it upfront would have been even better.
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Old 09-02-2008   #61
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
If you have trouble photographing the results while in the jar with the liquid, dumping the contents out on a piece of white paper towel can make it much easier to see:

Dynamat Xtreme


RAAMmat


FatMat
I wouldn't fuck around with a substandard sound deadener, just to much headache and mess potential. It's one thing to buy a crappy component and have it shit out on you and have to take it out and replace it. It's quite different though when it's really, very much, not ever fucking coming off again ,without a solid weeks worth of effort, attached to your mf car, it's a different story.

So what do these pics tell us besides the fact that the fat mat is asphalt? It looks like the raammat has alot more gooey stuff left over but this could be the angle of the picture. Again just my 2 cents here but when I researched raammat it seemed to be the best, although the guy was a little cocky on the phone, without prompting he told me he sold more deadener than anyone at least 2x, that made me a little nervous, but he did also end up hooking me up with some free ensolite and adhesive so I can't complain.

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Old 09-02-2008   #62
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodstuff View Post
I wouldn't fuck around with a substandard sound deadener, just to much headache and mess potential. It's one thing to buy a crappy component and have it shit out on you and have to take it out and replace it. It's quite different though when it's really, very much, not ever fucking coming off again ,without a solid weeks worth of effort, attached to your mf car, it's a different story.

So what do these pics tell us besides the fact that the fat mat is asphalt? It looks like the raammat has alot more gooey stuff left over but this could be the angle of the picture. Again just my 2 cents here but when I researched raammat it seemed to be the best, although the guy was a little cocky on the phone, without prompting he told me he sold more deadener than anyone at least 2x, that made me a little nervous, but he did also end up hooking me up with some free ensolite and adhesive so I can't complain.
I don't know what it says beyond demonstrating that asphalt responds differently than butyl. GLN305 said that he thought the RAAMmat he bought was asphalt. He said he had soaked it in minerals spirits. Since the results were delayed, I thought he might be having some difficulty photographing his tests so I put this up as the simplest way to do it.

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Old 09-02-2008   #63
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
Since the results were delayed, .
he didn't get 1 of the samples til last night.


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Old 09-02-2008   #64
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

All of the samples have been soaking 24 hours. The mineral spirits from the Raam Mat and BQuiet are a brownish black color and the mineral spirits from the Dynamat Extreme is translucent black in color. The difference that I am noticing is that the Raam Mat and B Quiet both have a little sediment at the bottom of the container, the Dynamat Extreme has more and larger sediment at the bottom of the container. At this point I assume that my test indicates that there is butyl of some amount of all three deadeners. My question now is since there is butyl in all of them, do we need to be concerned with quality of butyl?

Please remember that I am not saying that Ramm Mat or BQuiet are not functional nor effective, my one and only point has been that Raam Mat and B Quiet seem to be lower quality and messier than Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin. This leaves me to question, do these companies have deadeners that are partly butyl in content versus others that are pure butyl? Does butyl quality matter...I believe it does. I can't conclusively call Raam Mat, B Quiet or Dynamat Extreme pure butyl as I don't have MSDS sheets to find out, but I can still say working with Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin have been more than pleasant and Raam Mat ruined a pair of clothes, covered a garage floor in a black substance and is messier than Second Skin spectrum liquid deadener to install.
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Old 09-02-2008   #65
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Not a necessary post, I didn't sell him defective materials, I sold him materials made by a manufacturer that I refuse to support.
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Old 09-02-2008   #66
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
I don't know what it says beyond demonstrating that asphalt responds differently than butyl. GLN305 said that he thought the RAAMmat he bought was asphalt. He said he had soaked it in minerals spirits. Since the results were delayed, I thought he might be having some difficulty photographing his tests so I put this up as the simplest way to do it.
I never once said I had soaked it in mineral spirits and found it to be asphalt, which is why I decided to do this current experiment. I mentioned that it came off of my roller and knife very easily with mineral spirits.
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Old 09-02-2008   #67
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
All of the samples have been soaking 24 hours. The mineral spirits from the Raam Mat and BQuiet are a brownish black color and the mineral spirits from the Dynamat Extreme is translucent black in color. The difference that I am noticing is that the Raam Mat and B Quiet both have a little sediment at the bottom of the container, the Dynamat Extreme has more and larger sediment at the bottom of the container. At this point I assume that my test indicates that there is butyl of some amount of all three deadeners. My question now is since there is butyl in all of them, do we need to be concerned with quality of butyl?

Please remember that I am not saying that Ramm Mat or BQuiet are not functional nor effective, my one and only point has been that Raam Mat and B Quiet seem to be lower quality and messier than Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin. This leaves me to question, do these companies have deadeners that are partly butyl in content versus others that are pure butyl? Does butyl quality matter...I believe it does. I can't conclusively call Raam Mat, B Quiet or Dynamat Extreme pure butyl as I don't have MSDS sheets to find out, but I can still say working with Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin have been more than pleasant and Raam Mat ruined a pair of clothes, covered a garage floor in a black substance and is messier than Second Skin spectrum liquid deadener to install.
It's much easier to read the results if you just soak them for an hour. Asphalt will give will give an obvious brown cast to the liquid.

There are definitely differences in butyl composition and quality. None of these products are "pure butyl" All of them have various additives in them. RAAMmat definitely uses a somewhat lower grade than Damplifier or DX - thus the lower price. Nobody has suggested anything other than that. The problem is saying that any of these products are asphalt without support. That's a very serious charge.

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Old 09-02-2008   #68
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
I never once said I had soaked it in mineral spirits and found it to be asphalt, which is why I decided to do this current experiment. I mentioned that it came off of my roller and knife very easily with mineral spirits.
No, you never stated that you had soaked it in mineral spirits but you did say that RAAMmat used the same adhesive as the stuff the OP linked:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
It's not really the same type of adhesive in Second Skin, but I would venture to say it's close to or identical to Raam Mat or B Quiet. Here's a section of text I took from the link you gave:

"rubberized asphalt adhesive"

In my opinion I would use this instead of anything but Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin. It should work!
In several other posts you stated your belief that RAAMmat and BQ Ultimate were asphalt and indistinguishable from P&S. So technically no, you didn't say that you had tested it and proved that it was asphalt - just that you thought it was asphalt. Interestingly you didn't mention your concerns in your for sale thread.

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Old 09-02-2008   #69
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
It's much easier to read the results if you just soak them for an hour. Asphalt will give will give an obvious brown cast to the liquid.

There are definitely differences in butyl composition and quality. None of these products are "pure butyl" All of them have various additives in them. RAAMmat definitely uses a somewhat lower grade than Damplifier or DX - thus the lower price. Nobody has suggested anything other than that. The problem is saying that any of these products are asphalt without support. That's a very serious charge.
So at what point is a buty/asphalt mix deadener no longer called asphalt and moved to the butyl category. If we are talking about asphalt versus buty and most or all deadeners have asphalt content, an asphalt versus butyl debate is null and void. At that point effectiveness and useability are of importance as well as percentage of asphalt content. You have demonstrated durability on your website for the samples that you had when you did the testing which may or may not have changed and we all appreciate that.

On a side note, I have installed Peel n Seal and the similar product from Lowes, both were better in my opinion than FatMat.
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Old 09-02-2008   #70
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Originally put this in the wrong thread. Should have followed Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF150 View Post
GLN305, I purchased one the Raamat rolls from you. I'm wondering if the one you sold me is from the batch you were having trouble with?

I haven't installed it yet, so a heads up would be nice. Actually mentioning that you were having problems with it upfront would have been even better.
The story gets confusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
I would agree that there was a problem with my shipment, but me and Snaimpally ordered at different times. Maybe they are part of the same batch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
I was worried after helping with the above mentioned Raam Mat installation that the Raam Mat I ordered would be as messy as that was. I received my order two days after completing Snaimpally's car and when I opened the plastic on one roll, my finger came out covered in the same black mess that ruined a full set of clothes/shoes during the above install. I immediately put it up for sale as I didn't want to ruin any more clothing or property. It cost me $50 in shipping, ruined clothes and shoes and a whole bunch of hassle at this point. I can't recommend Raam Mat to anyone.
Quote:
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I only support people using asphalt based mat since it seems that most manufacturers are selling asphalt based mat and passing it off as buty. I had an issue with Raam Mat, told Rick about it and never heard anything back. I sold the two rolls I bought ...,
Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio View Post
If you are having this problem and have not emailed me please do so, I will take care of you and I would really like to get a sample for testing.

We are running a full battery of tests on samples we have pulled from the inventory of this batch to determine the cause and will fix it before one more roll is manf.

It is normal to have a little bit of messiness with this current version during hot weather installs. It is due a reformulation caused by a "war shortage" of one ingredient but it does not effect adhesion once installed or long term reliability. It is not normal to have the more extreme issues being reported here and it will be taken care of as quickly as possible.

I apologize for this happening and it seems rather random as out of the samples we are testing only one is at all abnormal and not severely so.

Sincerley,
Rick
801-829-4997
How are the test results coming along?

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Old 09-02-2008   #71
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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No, you never stated that you had soaked it in mineral spirits but you did say that RAAMmat used the same adhesive as the stuff the OP linked:



In several other posts you stated your belief that RAAMmat and BQ Ultimate were asphalt and indistinguishable from P&S. So technically no, you didn't say that you had tested it and proved that it was asphalt - just that you thought it was asphalt. Interestingly you didn't mention your concerns in your for sale thread.
Fine, call me a deadbeat seller. I sold a product that I was leary about but others loved. I can chose whether or not I like something and I don't have to justify that to anyone at all.

I have since stated that I believe that Raam Mat has butyl in it, but I am now curious as to how much and how good it is relative to others.
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Old 09-02-2008   #72
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Since it seems that I get hammered on everytime I share my experiences with products, I'll go ahead and withdraw from this conversation. No one will hear any more about deadeners from me unless it's to say how well Second Skin or Dynamat Extreme works.
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Old 09-02-2008   #73
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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So at what point is a buty/asphalt mix deadener no longer called asphalt and moved to the butyl category. If we are talking about asphalt versus buty and most or all deadeners have asphalt content, an asphalt versus butyl debate is null and void. At that point effectiveness and useability are of importance as well as percentage of asphalt content. You have demonstrated durability on your website for the samples that you had when you did the testing which may or may not have changed and we all appreciate that.

On a side note, I have installed Peel n Seal and the similar product from Lowes, both were better in my opinion than FatMat.
I've never seen a product that was actually a butyl/asphalt blend. I was told a few years ago that a few butyl products used small amounts of asphalt as filler, but I'm skeptical now. I don't even think they will mix together since asphalt is oily. I've tested dozens of samples and never found any that didn't display characteristics of one or the other, but never both. It was far more common for asphalt products to dishonestly claim to have butyl content using the rubber compounds that stabilize the asphalt as a way to mislead consumers - rubberized compounds, etc.

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Old 09-02-2008   #74
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Not a necessary post, I didn't sell him defective materials, I sold him materials made by a manufacturer that I refuse to support.
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I sold a product that I was leary about...
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Old 09-02-2008   #75
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Fine, call me a deadbeat seller. I sold a product that I was leary about but others loved. I can chose whether or not I like something and I don't have to justify that to anyone at all.

I have since stated that I believe that Raam Mat has butyl in it, but I am now curious as to how much and how good it is relative to others.
You've also stated that you thought you had a bad batch, that you thought RAAMmat was dishonestly representing the product and that you had gotten no satisfaction from Rick, even though he gave you his phone number in his post responding to yours. I wouldn't say you were a deadbeat seller, but you certainly didn't even hint at your concerns in your for sale post.

To BCF150: I can almost guarantee that if you have any problems with the RAAMmat you bought from GLN305, Rick will make it right. I obviously can't speak for him, but this and other forums are full of reports of him taking very good care of his customers.

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