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Old 09-02-2008   #76
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by GLN305 View Post
Since it seems that I get hammered on everytime I share my experiences with products, I'll go ahead and withdraw from this conversation. No one will hear any more about deadeners from me unless it's to say how well Second Skin or Dynamat Extreme works.
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

No one is "hammering" you for sharing your experiences--only for stating unsubstantiated claims as fact.

Reading through your posts, it is very very annoying that you can't make this distinction.

Quote:
I can chose whether or not I like something and I don't have to justify that to anyone at all.
OK, Nancy. You now have our permission to choose whether or not you like something.

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Old 09-02-2008   #77
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Rudeboy, This is going to be my first time applying sound deadener. I really don't have a good basis to judge whether or not the Raamat I have is bad.

What signs or symptoms should I look for? Any advice would be appreciated.

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Old 09-02-2008   #78
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
You've also stated that you thought you had a bad batch, that you thought RAAMmat was dishonestly representing the product and that you had gotten no satisfaction from Rick, even though he gave you his phone number in his post responding to yours. I wouldn't say you were a deadbeat seller, but you certainly didn't even hint at your concerns in your for sale post.

To BCF150: I can almost guarantee that if you have any problems with the RAAMmat you bought from GLN305, Rick will make it right. I obviously can't speak for him, but this and other forums are full of reports of him taking very good care of his customers.
When I was selling the Raam Mat, my only concern was the messy install, ask anyone that knows me and they will confirm that. Let's not waste any more time with this BS, it just needs to be done.
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Old 09-02-2008   #79
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by capnxtreme View Post
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

No one is "hammering" you for sharing your experiences--only for stating unsubstantiated claims as fact.

Reading through your posts, it is very very annoying that you can't make this distinction.



OK, Nancy. You now have our permission to choose whether or not you like something.
Who asked you?
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Old 09-02-2008   #80
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

It's 2008, and you're typing "Who asked you?" as a response to a message board post. On a message board. Just FYI.

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Old 09-02-2008   #81
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

As the owner of the car that GLN305, Mooble, and SublineZ worked on, I wanted to chime in with my $0.02 worth.

When we started work on my car I had 20 sq ft of Damplifer and 125 sq ft of Raamat. I know that prior to buying my Raamat, Rick changed suppliers because he had posted on his website that he was going through some difficulties getting a good supply of product. I should mention that we worked in my garage with the doors open in Austin's July heat.

We used Damplifier first, on the roof, and it worked great. Then we used the Raamat. It was extremely ooey-gooey, almost the consistency of peanut butter. It was extremely messy and we got it on our hands, shoes, clothes, tracked it into the house etc. Mooble has used everything from peel and stick to damplifier and he remarked that the Raammat resembled Peel & Stick. Fortunately, I painted a layer of Spectrum over the two layers of Raammat, so the exposed sticky goo from Raammat was completely covered before we reassembled the car.

GLN305 is a very experienced car installer and has installed Peel and Stick as well as Dynamat, B-Quiet, Raammat, and Damplifier. He also remarked that his previous experience with Raammat had not been this messy. He ordered Raammat some days after I had. He decided he did not want to work with Raammat because of his experience using it on my car and subsequently sold it. He did not sell it knowing it was a bad product, only that he had had enough of it while working on my car. After he ordered B-quiet Ultimate, he discovered it is basically very similar to Raammat and wished he had kept his Raammat so to the guy who bought GLN305's Raammat, if you don't want it, I'm sure GLN305 will buy it back from you because he wishes now that he hadn't sold it.

I am willing to give Rick the benefit of the doubt that perhaps this was a bad roll of Raamat. After all, Rick is simply a middleman. He orders products, sticks them in warehouse, and ships them out. He does not make the product himself. I doubt he tests the rolls he gets very frequently. How would he know if his supplier sent him a bad roll? I think that my roll was perhaps slightly past the set parameters for acceptable. During a discussion on the ebay sale of "B" stock Raammat, Rudeboy pointed out that in his showdown, Raammat met the minimum standards and that the stuff on ebay was slightly lower in grade than regular Raammat and so did not meet the minimum standards for use in a car. So its certainly possible that the new supplier slipped up and produced a roll just slightly below minimum aceptable parameters.

I showed a sample to DMazyn and he said it did not resemble his Raammat which he had bought some time ago and was still in the process of applying to his car. I plan to compare his older Raammat with my newer Raammat.

I contacted Rick about the Raammat and expressed my concerns. He has generously offered to refund a portion of my purchase price as compensation and has asked for a test sample, which I am in the process of sending him (don't have his mailing address). Don, I have a little left so I can send you a sample as well if you want to test it. I bought Raammat because of all the positive things people have said and because of Don's SDS website. Any manufacturing process has tolerances and it is quite possible that some products will slip through that do not meet the tolerances.

My reccomendation is that people use Second Skin products. Damplifier Pro is around the same price as Dynamat Extreme and Damplifier is a little cheaper. As Don mentions in his SDS, the Damplifier isn't very sticky initially, making it easy to remove and reposition and it gets much stickier as time goes by. Its a great product to work with.

I also reccomend the 3/8" closed cell Volara foam from the Foam Factory. We used a layer of the foam on top of the 2 layers of sound deadener and the layer of Spectrum.

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Last edited by snaimpally; 09-02-2008 at 11:55 PM..
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Old 09-03-2008   #82
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

You know...I wonder if the humidity levels may have anything to do with the way the rammmat becomes gooey...inaddition to the heat.
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Old 09-03-2008   #83
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by snaimpally View Post
Don, I have a little left so I can send you a sample as well if you want to test it.
Definitely, thanks. You got PM.

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Old 09-03-2008   #84
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by BCF150 View Post
Rudeboy, This is going to be my first time applying sound deadener. I really don't have a good basis to judge whether or not the Raamat I have is bad.

What signs or symptoms should I look for? Any advice would be appreciated.
snaimpally is sending me a sample, so I'll let you know.

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Old 09-03-2008   #85
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by capnxtreme View Post
It's 2008, and you're typing "Who asked you?" as a response to a message board post. On a message board. Just FYI.
Wow, you can read, now answer the question or keep your mouth shut.
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Old 09-03-2008   #86
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Well, after reading through all of the varying comments and opinions, and after installing about 100 to 110 sq feet so far of raammat in my tundra, I'm curious to know how I should tell if it is okay or not?

During install, it was messy, but not the end of the world messy. It gets under your fingernails pretty bad as you peel the brown paper off the back, but once that is off it wasn't too bad at all. I found that mainly it is just the edges that are problematic, and the flat surface of the deadner is easy to hold without problem.

I did get it on my clothes and I did get it on my hands, and I have one spot on my carpet interior, but otherwise no real problems that I know of. The spot on my carpet came from my own ignorance of sitting the roll directly on the carpet when I first started. Learned immediately to keep the roll in a cardboard box. Also learned to just be careful what I touch and where I touch, and to wash up with goo gone after finishing.

My concern wasn't how sticky or messy it was to install as much as now it is whether or not it's going to stay put in my truck. It seemed pretty solid once applied, and it didn't want to move really once it is stuck down. I am doing my install work in north Florida/south Georgia area, and we have high heat and high humidity down here, so I can't imagine coming into worse conditions on a daily basis than those experienced over the course of the install.

I did use aluminum tape over the seams of the deadner too, but again that was a lesson learned on day one and it was used as a precaution to protect against the edges. I did my entire floor with 2+ layers or raammat, and taped every single seam with aluminum tape, and once that was done, I was able to sit on and slide all over the floor of the truck without any deadner transfer to my clothes, so what that tells me is that the biggest problem with raammat seems to come from the edges. It is messy around the edges, but handle with care and tape the seams and I think it's okay.

Sorry for the ramble..................
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Old 09-03-2008   #87
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
Well, after reading through all of the varying comments and opinions, and after installing about 100 to 110 sq feet so far of raammat in my tundra, I'm curious to know how I should tell if it is okay or not?

During install, it was messy, but not the end of the world messy. It gets under your fingernails pretty bad as you peel the brown paper off the back, but once that is off it wasn't too bad at all. I found that mainly it is just the edges that are problematic, and the flat surface of the deadner is easy to hold without problem.

I did get it on my clothes and I did get it on my hands, and I have one spot on my carpet interior, but otherwise no real problems that I know of. The spot on my carpet came from my own ignorance of sitting the roll directly on the carpet when I first started. Learned immediately to keep the roll in a cardboard box. Also learned to just be careful what I touch and where I touch, and to wash up with goo gone after finishing.

My concern wasn't how sticky or messy it was to install as much as now it is whether or not it's going to stay put in my truck. It seemed pretty solid once applied, and it didn't want to move really once it is stuck down. I am doing my install work in north Florida/south Georgia area, and we have high heat and high humidity down here, so I can't imagine coming into worse conditions on a daily basis than those experienced over the course of the install.

I did use aluminum tape over the seams of the deadner too, but again that was a lesson learned on day one and it was used as a precaution to protect against the edges. I did my entire floor with 2+ layers or raammat, and taped every single seam with aluminum tape, and once that was done, I was able to sit on and slide all over the floor of the truck without any deadner transfer to my clothes, so what that tells me is that the biggest problem with raammat seems to come from the edges. It is messy around the edges, but handle with care and tape the seams and I think it's okay.

Sorry for the ramble..................
That sounds pretty normal for RAAMmat - edges are messy. I've got RAAMmat, Cascade V-Max, Dynamat Xtreme, Second Skin Damplifier and Damplifier Pro in my car and after a few years, I see no difference in durability. My car sits outside in direct afternoon sunlight every day of the week. RAAMmat actually has the strongest adhesive bond of any of them which isn't really important since beyond a reasonable point, there's no additional benefit.

Some mess is the trade off you make for lower cost. Covering the seams is a good idea for any of these products, especially for RAAMmat. My objection to GLN305's posts is mostly with his assertion that RAAMmat is messy "just like P&S". Asphalt products aren't messy at all until you get close to the melting point - 180°F or so. You can cut asphalt all day long without getting your knife gummed up. Just doesn't make sense.

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Old 09-03-2008   #88
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
That sounds pretty normal for RAAMmat - edges are messy. I've got RAAMmat, Cascade V-Max, Dynamat Xtreme, Second Skin Damplifier and Damplifier Pro in my car and after a few years, I see no difference in durability. My car sits outside in direct afternoon sunlight every day of the week. RAAMmat actually has the strongest adhesive bond of any of them which isn't really important since beyond a reasonable point, there's no additional benefit.

Some mess is the trade off you make for lower cost. Covering the seams is a good idea for any of these products, especially for RAAMmat. My objection to GLN305's posts is mostly with his assertion that RAAMmat is messy "just like P&S". Asphalt products aren't messy at all until you get close to the melting point - 180°F or so. You can cut asphalt all day long without getting your knife gummed up. Just doesn't make sense.

Thanks, makes me feel better then that my Raammat is normal for Raammat. Sticky and gooey on the edges, but the flat areas are such that you can handle them without getting the butyl on you. Of course, if you sit and hold a piece long enough, it will get on you, but for install purposes, if you are careful in how you handle it, you can install 100 sq foot of it with only a little by product under the finger nails.

I think the best thing anyone working with Raammat can do is to keep it cool the night before, so store it in air conditioning. That helps to keep the edge stickyness down a little. Then spend the first 10 or so sq ft actually learning how to work with it. After an initial session working with you, you learn how to alter your install handling enough to keep the mess to a minimum.

The unavoidable things are that the edges will be sticky. Your knife will get gooey, so just buy a cheap throw away knife. The cut edges will be as gooey as the outer edges, so keep that in mind. And, keep a bottle of goo gone handy to clean your hands before going to other projects.

Then, just be mindful of where you sit and step and you won't get it all over you. Get a roll of cheap aluminum tape at the hardware store and cover all the seams. My roll, is sort of a thin aluminum/plastic blend made for taping duct seams. It seals the seams, is cheap enough at about $10 a roll, and I've put down 100+ sq feet of deadner and still have just under half a roll of tape left.

For the cost savings, I still think the raammat made a lot of sense for me. Thanks for the feedback Don and I appeciate the reassurances on the product.
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Old 09-03-2008   #89
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Wow, you can read, now answer the question or keep your mouth shut.
I am a message board member who doesn't like to see the spread of unsubstantiated misinformation.

Good enough sweetheart?

The idea that one needs to be "asked" in order to post on a message board illustrates indeed the level of logic upon which you are operating.

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Old 09-03-2008   #90
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I would really like to see Protecto-wrap and Raammat evaluated side by side. I could tell no difference between the two. Both had a very faint smell, but it was tolerable. Both are a complete mess to work with in the heat (and no heat was not the deciding factor). I could have installed 100 sqft of Damplifier or Dynamat X-Treme and come away with clean clothes and virtually clean hands. I know because I have. Both were installed in the middle of summer in the same temps that I installed Raammat. They are amazingly clean to work with compared to cheaper deadeners. On the flip side, Protecto-wrap and Raammat are nearly impossible to work with in the heat. There is no skill or lack thereof involved. They simply are inferior products. I know Protecto-wrap runs. I'm waiting to see if Raammat also runs. I expect it to run since it mimics Protecto-wrap in every other way.

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Old 09-03-2008   #91
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I would really like to see Protecto-wrap and Raammat evaluated side by side. I could tell no difference between the two. Both had a very faint smell, but it was tolerable. Both are a complete mess to work with in the heat (and no heat was not the deciding factor). I could have installed 100 sqft of Damplifier or Dynamat X-Treme and come away with clean clothes and virtually clean hands. I know because I have. Both were installed in the middle of summer in the same temps that I installed Raammat. They are amazingly clean to work with compared to cheaper deadeners. On the flip side, Protecto-wrap and Raammat are nearly impossible to work with in the heat. There is no skill or lack thereof involved. They simply are inferior products. I know Protecto-wrap runs. I'm waiting to see if Raammat also runs. I expect it to run since it mimics Protecto-wrap in every other way.

I don't begin to claim as much experience with deadener as Don, which is why I would like to see his take on the sample we sent. Perhaps this is not the same quality of the Raammat he tested in the past. Others have claimed that the new batch is not anything like the Raammat they used previously. We shall see...

Doh! Double post.

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Old 09-03-2008   #92
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I've fully deadened my doors with Raammat- 2 layers inner skin and 2 layers outer skin - for well over a month now. The door cards are off since I haven't had the time to completely seal of the doors, wrap ensolite over all the rods, etc. (the install log w/ pictures is also well delayed).

The Raammat has not had any issues with melting or adhesion. This is in a black car, parked outside exclusively with no working windows for venting, just baking in the SoCal heat. At work I park on the roof of a two story cement parking structure, easily well above 100 degrees. In contrast, the other night I used some leftover modeling clay to reinforce an area of my door and by lunchtime the next day, all of it had melted off. My batch is from about a year ago, not the recent stuff under debate.

I agree with TSXBonds that it's a bit gooey/messy to install, but nothing serious. Some gloves and prep work will eliminate most of the problems. The tar mostly comes off anyway. I didn't think it was a big deal, but the customer service is.

I've used the first batch of Asphalt based stuff in my first install and that stuff did have adhesive problems. The same thing happened in my friend's car as well. Rick sent both of us new rolls of BXT, no questions asked.

Last year, I started a new project and naturally went back to Rick. I never got started on that project until this year, when I realized that my order of 2 yards Ensolite wasn't shipped. So, over a year later, I contact Rick and, again no questions asked, he sent me 4 yards of Ensolite and 2 cans of adhesive spray for my troubles. I got the package in less than a week.

I haven't had any personal experience with SS or Ant, but their products esp. Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner are intriguing and I've heard good things about their customer service. Still, for a novice/intermediate install centered around cost/performance ratio, I definetely wouldn't write off Raammat. Maybe it was just a bad batch.

Hope that helps people out for future references.

PS: As for Rick being "cocky" I think he's just really.. really into car audio. I met him in person and he had so many projects he was excited he just kept yapping away. He also recommended the Ensolite to me well before he started selling the stuff himself.
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Old 09-03-2008   #93
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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I am a message board member who doesn't like to see the spread of unsubstantiated misinformation.

Good enough sweetheart?

The idea that one needs to be "asked" in order to post on a message board illustrates indeed the level of logic upon which you are operating.
I never asked for anything. Apparently your lack of understanding the obvious displays that you are not one to judge anyone's level of logic.
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Old 09-03-2008   #94
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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That sounds pretty normal for RAAMmat - edges are messy. I've got RAAMmat, Cascade V-Max, Dynamat Xtreme, Second Skin Damplifier and Damplifier Pro in my car and after a few years, I see no difference in durability. My car sits outside in direct afternoon sunlight every day of the week. RAAMmat actually has the strongest adhesive bond of any of them which isn't really important since beyond a reasonable point, there's no additional benefit.

Some mess is the trade off you make for lower cost. Covering the seams is a good idea for any of these products, especially for RAAMmat. My objection to GLN305's posts is mostly with his assertion that RAAMmat is messy "just like P&S". Asphalt products aren't messy at all until you get close to the melting point - 180°F or so. You can cut asphalt all day long without getting your knife gummed up. Just doesn't make sense.
OK, let me clarify. Peel n Seal type products that I have used look, act, smell, cut, and are messy just like Raam Mat. I could not tell a difference. If these products are asphalt, then fine, if they are buty ,then fine, if they are chewing gum, then fine...they are still very similar to Raam Mat. These Peel n Seal materials got my knife messy, hands messy and were just plain hard to work with.
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Old 09-03-2008   #95
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by douggiestyle View Post
I've fully deadened my doors with Raammat- 2 layers inner skin and 2 layers outer skin - for well over a month now. The door cards are off since I haven't had the time to completely seal of the doors, wrap ensolite over all the rods, etc. (the install log w/ pictures is also well delayed).

The Raammat has not had any issues with melting or adhesion. This is in a black car, parked outside exclusively with no working windows for venting, just baking in the SoCal heat. At work I park on the roof of a two story cement parking structure, easily well above 100 degrees. In contrast, the other night I used some leftover modeling clay to reinforce an area of my door and by lunchtime the next day, all of it had melted off. My batch is from about a year ago, not the recent stuff under debate.

I agree with TSXBonds that it's a bit gooey/messy to install, but nothing serious. Some gloves and prep work will eliminate most of the problems. The tar mostly comes off anyway. I didn't think it was a big deal, but the customer service is.

I've used the first batch of Asphalt based stuff in my first install and that stuff did have adhesive problems. The same thing happened in my friend's car as well. Rick sent both of us new rolls of BXT, no questions asked.

Last year, I started a new project and naturally went back to Rick. I never got started on that project until this year, when I realized that my order of 2 yards Ensolite wasn't shipped. So, over a year later, I contact Rick and, again no questions asked, he sent me 4 yards of Ensolite and 2 cans of adhesive spray for my troubles. I got the package in less than a week.

I haven't had any personal experience with SS or Ant, but their products esp. Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner are intriguing and I've heard good things about their customer service. Still, for a novice/intermediate install centered around cost/performance ratio, I definetely wouldn't write off Raammat. Maybe it was just a bad batch.

Hope that helps people out for future references.

PS: As for Rick being "cocky" I think he's just really.. really into car audio. I met him in person and he had so many projects he was excited he just kept yapping away. He also recommended the Ensolite to me well before he started selling the stuff himself.

Glad to hear you had good luck. Just as an FYI there have been three versions of Raam Mat that I am aware of. Asphalt was the first run, BXT was the second and now there is a second revision of BXT due to "war shortages" as per Rick.
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Old 09-03-2008   #96
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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I would really like to see Protecto-wrap and Raammat evaluated side by side. I could tell no difference between the two. Both had a very faint smell, but it was tolerable. Both are a complete mess to work with in the heat (and no heat was not the deciding factor). I could have installed 100 sqft of Damplifier or Dynamat X-Treme and come away with clean clothes and virtually clean hands. I know because I have. Both were installed in the middle of summer in the same temps that I installed Raammat. They are amazingly clean to work with compared to cheaper deadeners. On the flip side, Protecto-wrap and Raammat are nearly impossible to work with in the heat. There is no skill or lack thereof involved. They simply are inferior products. I know Protecto-wrap runs. I'm waiting to see if Raammat also runs. I expect it to run since it mimics Protecto-wrap in every other way.
I have tried to explain myself in this way and it didn't get across to them. I hope this explanation works.
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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I have tried to explain myself in this way and it didn't get across to them.
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I just hate to see people buy overpriced peel n seal. Go Second Skin of Dynamat Extreme or head to Home Depot or Lowes.

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Old 09-03-2008   #98
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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OK, let me clarify. Peel n Seal type products that I have used look, act, smell, cut, and are messy just like Raam Mat. I could not tell a difference. If these products are asphalt, then fine, if they are buty ,then fine, if they are chewing gum, then fine...they are still very similar to Raam Mat. These Peel n Seal materials got my knife messy, hands messy and were just plain hard to work with.
I really don't understand this. Peel & Seal is a specific brand trademarked by MFM in Ohio. The same thing is sold as FatMat and previously as eDead V1 and V1SE (the new eDeads are completely different). There are similar asphalt based products sold by Grace Construction and a few other companies. None of these products could be described as particularly messy and can be cut and handled with nothing more than a slight residue coming off. The only objection raised when automotive sound deadening companies switched from asphalt to butyl (other than increased price) was that the butyl was messy.

Many of the companies that make asphalt flashing also make butyl products for use where higher temperatures can be expected. I have to believe these are the products you are talking about, but they are not "Peel & Seal" type products nor are they asphalt. This may be where the confusion is coming from.

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Old 09-03-2008   #99
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
I really don't understand this. Peel & Seal is a specific brand trademarked by MFM in Ohio. The same thing is sold as FatMat and previously as eDead V1 and V1SE (the new eDeads are completely different). There are similar asphalt based products sold by Grace Construction and a few other companies. None of these products could be described as particularly messy and can be cut and handled with nothing more than a slight residue coming off. The only objection raised when automotive sound deadening companies switched from asphalt to butyl (other than increased price) was that the butyl was messy.

Many of the companies that make asphalt flashing also make butyl products for use where higher temperatures can be expected. I have to believe these are the products you are talking about, but they are not "Peel & Seal" type products nor are they asphalt. This may be where the confusion is coming from.
I just noticed that you are from Maryland. Have you tried installing Peel n Seal that has been sitting in a 120 degree garage for a few days into a 110 degree car? Most anything will get gooey in Texas heat if left long enough. Maybe our Home Depot and Lowes stores carry different lines of material to coincide with different climates. I know that a Target here and a Target in San Antonio stock completely different merchandise as do most stores. That's just a 100 miles distance.
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Old 09-03-2008   #100
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Wow, you post it and still don't get it. Honestly I'm trying to clarify cerain things here and you are just being a jerk. Keep being a jerk, you're good at it. Now that I know that you have no constructive input I will add you to my ignore list.
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