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Old 10-17-2008   #126
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

hey guys, today i picked up 3 rolls(6"x25') of peel and seal from lowes. Im gonna try it out on my floor and other areas of my truck. It does have a smell fresh out of the plastic, but i doubt it will be bad after airing out! and for $10 ea....i figure its bout $1.10 square foot which isnt bad. I already have raammatted doors etc so this couldent hurt!

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Old 10-17-2008   #127
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?


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Old 10-17-2008   #128
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKJT05 View Post
hey guys, today i picked up 3 rolls(6"x25') of peel and seal from lowes. Im gonna try it out on my floor and other areas of my truck. It does have a smell fresh out of the plastic, but i doubt it will be bad after airing out! and for $10 ea....i figure its bout $1.10 square foot which isnt bad. I already have raammatted doors etc so this couldent hurt!
Yeah I bought the same stuff and I plan on putting it under the carpet and maybe doubling up on it. I have raamat for the doors already.
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Old 10-17-2008   #129
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Not sure if this was mentioned or brought up, since there is a lot of back and forth in this thread and i got sick of reading it all, BUT a while back Rick did inform us that there were several bad batches of Raamat that got sent out, he called it EG (Extra Gooey) and said he would do whatever he could to make it right with customers who were dissatisfied with it.

I believe there was even a GP on the discounted 'EG' supply to those who still wanted to bother with it.

Now as far as the butyl and asphalt thing, I can only add my own limited experiences. About 5 years ago I worked at a shop that sold what I assume to be the 'original' Raamat. I'm pretty sure it was butyl with suspensed asphalt in it to add mass. All I know for certain is that during this time we had a customer or two come in with runny deadener.

The shop I work at now sells only Dynamt Extreme. We've had zero problems with it.
Myself, having some loyalty to Rick, bought 2 rolls of the newer BXT about a year ago. I found it's adhesive to be as good if not better than Dynamt, but the product is thinner in comparison. I did both doors in my black truck and have had zero problems with it.

So maybe it's possible that GLN305 just got his hands on one of the bum 'EG' rolls from Rick?

For what it's worth that's my .02
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Old 10-17-2008   #130
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Hey guys, i had to try the peel and seal out! i baught 3 rolls to do my floor and ceiling, but i decided to take a roll and add to my already raammatted doors. My previous deadening job was terrible, just big pieces over the main parts of the doors.

Here is my thoughts on peel and seal...unless your a audiophyle/perfectionist i doubt youd be able to tell the difference. It looks the same to me. I took my doors apart, took orange clean degresser and cleaned the doors and dried them, then took the roll and cut it into 5-6" sizes and went with that. To me, it stuck just as good as raammatt, but i did notice to make sure the door is very dry and clean, i had one piece that wasent sticking, but then i just pulled it off and dried the door better and it went right back on and stuck fine. anyways for $10 roll which i paid, ill take it...also unless you can smell better then a ant eater(if that makes sense), youll never notice the smell, and after letting it lay out while applying, the smell was already pretty much gone.

here are my doors now...





Also my first deadening job sucked, after doing this and listening to music, its like night and day, the bass response, spl, sq, is way way better.

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Old 10-17-2008   #131
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

to sum everything up....to your average joe, this stuff will work fine!

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Old 10-17-2008   #132
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKJT05 View Post
to sum everything up....to your average joe, this stuff will work fine!
That is a VERY dangerous statement. Asphalt products like P&S are demonstrably inferior in performance to butyl/aluminum foil vibration dampers. Even so, they are somewhat effective. The real problem is durability. A high percentage of asphalt products installed in cars will fail - sometimes in a week, sometimes in a few years. If you are lucky they will fall off harmlessly, but more likely, the asphalt will melt out and damage whatever it comes into contact with. I'm not going to go into all of the reasons this happens (for the 1000 time), but it is a completely predictable.

The real irony is that significantly less butyl/aluminum foil damper will do the same job as much more asphalt. In terms of performance, you save nothing so you risk damaging your car and equipment for no reason. Pricing by the square foot is a big mistake.

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Old 10-17-2008   #133
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

BKJT05

I will add that some people have said the smell from peel and seel comes back full force when it gets hot.
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Old 10-17-2008   #134
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

we will see, even sticking my noise in the plastic with the peel and seal, it still wasent a strong smell. For me it will work, it deffinitly helped the sound out alot. And if it something that only last for a couple years im fine with that because most likely ill be buying a new car then.

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Old 10-18-2008   #135
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

The original post was about the quick roof rubber repair product which is butyl rubber with adhesive backing. Has anyone tried that yet?
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Old 10-18-2008   #136
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKJT05 View Post
Here is my thoughts on peel and seal...unless your a audiophyle/perfectionist i doubt youd be able to tell the difference. It looks the same to me.
No offense, but that is just silly talk.

It's not the same.....not even close. Yea, it does sort of resemble it, though: shiny, sticky, black, round roll.

The only way I see it's fair to recommend that stuff is if you have pictures a year or two later. Sure, it seems ok and might be a great deal in you mind, but that can, and I predict, that it will change down the road.

On a personal note, this forum is depressing. It's owned by a sound deadening company that makes quality products that are tired and true, there is MOUNTAINS of information posted on the do's and do not's, and yet still people try to get away with stuff like this.
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Old 10-18-2008   #137
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

with the economy these days, people want good deadening but cant afford the good stuff! its ok though, i took everybodies advice and wont be using anymore on my truck, but i did use it somewhere else...


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Old 10-18-2008   #138
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

and so the pointlessness continues . . .

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Old 10-18-2008   #139
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

hows it pointless, i only used 1/4" mdf with this enclosure because im glassing the rest, the peel and seal deffinitly made it more solid...

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Old 10-18-2008   #140
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Do you deaden the inside of your sub box?

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Old 10-18-2008   #141
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Key point (read carefully): the "good stuff" is actual, real deadener. The "cheap stuff" is not deadener. It never has been and it never will be.

Some people will try to drive a nail into a board for hours with a screwdriver before they switch to a hammer. I don't think they're necessarly insane, it's just that they haven't realized how dumb it is. Eventually, pain and frustration force a shift in thinking. If not, then it's time to see a shrink.

Maybe I should start a new thread: Kmart "deflex" pads for real this time? It will be about buying Silly Puddy for rear wave speaker cancellation in doors.

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Old 10-19-2008   #142
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Weren't all "deadeners" asphault based not too many years ago?

So we can safely say that nobody has ever made sound deadener until butly based was invented, or is it only butyl/aluminum?
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Old 10-19-2008   #143
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Weren't all "deadeners" asphault based not too many years ago?

So we can safely say that nobody has ever made sound deadener until butly based was invented, or is it only butyl/aluminum?
and transportation used to require horses. Early products were asphalt. It was more convenient than the concrete people had been pouring in their doors, floors and quarter panels. Both approaches were only used by those who didn't mind eliminating any possible resale value for their cars in order to gain an advantage at a competition. Not only were these techniques destructive, but they relied on the most crude vibration damping technique of all - mass loading.

Constrained layer viscoelastic damping entered the automotive aftermarket when the advances made in the aerospace and OEM automotive industries where applied. This made sound deadening safe, reliable and effective with less added weight and ironically less effort and cost. That's what's sad and funny about people insisting on using products like Peel & Seal - by the time you add enough to deaden a panel with mass loading alone, you are going to have used so much more material than you would using butyl that you don't end up saving money. "I got it for $.50/ft²", but you had to apply 4 layers.

People are willing to pay extra for FatMat, even though it is indistinguishable from P&S and somehow they feel clever doing it. If you can find a butyl/aluminum foil construction product, it will probably be OK, but I have never found one that after doubling up to equal the thickness of products sold specifically for sound deadening, is still cheaper. Butyl is much more expensive than asphalt. The people selling asphalt for sound deadening are actually making more money per ft² than those selling aggressively priced butyl products (this doesn't apply to P&S which is commodity priced).

The hard facts are that asphalt is much less effective than butyl as well as being much less reliable. I wish people luck if they make that choice, but let's not pretend that their is any defensible logic behind it.

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Old 10-19-2008   #144
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hispls View Post
Weren't all "deadeners" asphault based not too many years ago?

So we can safely say that nobody has ever made sound deadener until butly based was invented, or is it only butyl/aluminum?
I was just trying to point out that the two aren't really interchangeable as they don't both possess the same damping ability. CLD mat is real, honest to God damping product. Peal n seal is a real, honest to God sealer. You can use CLD mat for sealing, but the weight and thickness isn't important for the results you'd need and it would essentially be a waste of money.

I have PnS all over in my car. I've used a few rolls of Protecto Wrap brand, and it's good stuff. But, I'd never use it to deaden anything because that would be like eating soup with a fork. I filled the rear hatch door with closed cell expandable foam and used PnS to seal the holes and the foam together, but it did absolutely nothing for vibration damping.

If you really want to get creative on a car door, get some Green Glue and some aluminum foil. You can pick up a tube on eBay for about $20 and aluminum foil for $2 (ok, maybe the heavy duty stuff for $5). Prep the surface, apply the glue, hit it with the foil, hit the foil again with the glue and then one more time with the foil to seal the deal....for two layers each. Use PnS first to seal up the access holes.

Here, you have a TRUE viscoelastic damping product matched with a respectable blocker, heat reflector, and anti-shear layer. The results they get with Green Glue in home noise control are amazing. Really cool stuff. It's not even CLOSE to PnS. It would be 50x better at all aspects of noise and vibration control. But then, you might have to extend your budget by $5-10.
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Old 10-20-2008   #145
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

we actually just formulated a product that is very similar to green glue.
Ours is yellow however.

Very cool product.

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Old 10-20-2008   #146
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
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we actually just formulated a product that is very similar to green glue.
Ours is yellow however.

Very cool product.

ANT
Well then tell me about it, you bastid!
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Old 10-20-2008   #147
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
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we actually just formulated a product that is very similar to green glue.
Ours is yellow however.

Very cool product.

ANT
Does it require that one of the materials it is sandwiched between be porous like Green Glue does? It would be cool to have something like this that could be used between metals, but GG specifically says you can't because the water content needs to evaporate.

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Old 10-20-2008   #148
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Does it require that one of the materials it is sandwiched between be porous like Green Glue does? It would be cool to have something like this that could be used between metals, but GG specifically says you can't because the water content needs to evaporate.
Do you mean that the porosity of the wood, sheetrock, whatever soaks up the water and the metal cannot?

If it was never really sealed and allowed to evaporate, could it still be effective on metal?

Just wondering if my idea is a fruitless endeavor or not. Never seen it tried before. I suppose you could change the "walls" from aluminum to something else, though.
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Old 10-20-2008   #149
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Do you mean that the porosity of the wood, sheetrock, whatever soaks up the water and the metal cannot?

If it was never really sealed and allowed to evaporate, could it still be effective on metal?

Just wondering if my idea is a fruitless endeavor or not. Never seen it tried before. I suppose you could change the "walls" from aluminum to something else, though.
According to the instructions on the Green Glue Web site
Quote:
Green Glue must be used as the center of a “sandwich” between two rigid materials. Also, it is a water-based damping material, and it has to dry, so at least one of the materials must be porous to allow water to evaporate. Fortunately, almost all common construction materials fall into those categories. We will look at material selection for walls, for floors, and for other applications such as soffits.
I wanted to try what you described but it doesn't seem like it would work.

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Old 10-20-2008   #150
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
Does it require that one of the materials it is sandwiched between be porous like Green Glue does? It would be cool to have something like this that could be used between metals, but GG specifically says you can't because the water content needs to evaporate.
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Originally Posted by FoxPro5 View Post
Well then tell me about it, you bastid!
Sending both of you a PM.

Top secret stuff here...
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