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Old 03-23-2011   #176
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

So. lets put this in a nut shell for all you noobs..asphalt deadener SUCK, don't use it...more trouble than what it's worth
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Old 03-23-2011   #177
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Wow, thats an awful big fuss over a post where i simply used the wrong wording !!! I so apologize to anyone assuming that my experience should mean that you do the same, My intentions where to state my experience with the product , sorry i mis-worded it !!!!! What i meant to say and should have proof - read it more carefully , was with the prep i did and tools i used that i have had no problem with the product. And yes i live where it gets well over 100 for multiple times during the summer and it has never even loosened, much less ran or dripped, so maybe its just your applications ?? Im not sure, all i can say is it worked for me, PERIOD !!!
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Old 03-23-2011   #178
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trojan fan View Post
So. lets put this in a nut shell for all you noobs..asphalt deadener SUCK, don't use it...more trouble than what it's worth



Lets put this in a nutshell for all you noobs . . Everyone has an opinion, just do the research and maybe even try small amounts of different products and see which you like, if you dont like the Peel & Seal your only out 16 bucks , not hundreds like the other stuff so decide for yourself !!!!

Check out EXO's Peel & Seal review on YouTube

P.S. Just like any product, you get what you pay for, the expensive stuff does have the name on it at least !!!!!
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Old 03-24-2011   #179
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyott99 View Post
Lets put this in a nutshell for all you noobs . . Everyone has an opinion, just do the research and maybe even try small amounts of different products and see which you like, if you dont like the Peel & Seal your only out 16 bucks , not hundreds like the other stuff so decide for yourself !!!!

Check out EXO's Peel & Seal review on YouTube

P.S. Just like any product, you get what you pay for, the expensive stuff does have the name on it at least !!!!!
Now you've transitioned from not knowing what you're talking about to being dangerous. Plenty of people have done the small sample thing. It's a good idea, but don't do it in a vehicle. That $16 has the potential to cost you a great deal of effort in the future. Bad advice, even when presented enthusiastically with passive aggressive self pity is still bad advice.

Speaking of bad advice, let's look at the source you've cited:
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Nobody has suggested that asphalt roofing materials will necessarily fall off right away. They might, but the greater concern is what will happen over the course of a few years. The most common failure point is during the 2nd or 3rd summer. The presenter's assertion that since "it snowed yesterday and is sunny today" there is no better test of heat and cold tolerance is absurd.

Comparing Peel & Seal to Fatmat and R-Blox makes some sense since they are all asphalt materials and should have similar failure rates and will have nearly identical performance characteristics. That's a ridiculously low standard.

Where he really goes off the rails is with his comparison between Peel & Seal and Dynamat Xtreme. He may have handled them both, but he either did it at different times and can't remember, or he is being intentionally dishonest. I have handed dozens of people samples of Peel & Seal and DX to compare and none of them have concluded that they were difficult to tell apart. There is nothing similar about them except that they are shiny on one side and black on the other. The reviewer's claim that the there is a small difference in foils is a perfect example of the nonsense he is promoting. Dynamat uses a 4 mil foil constraining layer. P&S uses a .5 mil foil that is laminated in thin plastic. The sole reason P&S has any foil at all is to provide UV protection for the asphalt.

Characterizing this as "opinion" is where you really get dangerous. Most people will recognize this as an attempt to ignore the facts to support an unsupportable position. Opinion has nothing to do with this. Showing an installation that has lasted a few months proves absolutely nothing. Show us these 4 products after 1 year, 2 years and 3 years. I can promise you that the Dynamat will look the same way it does today.

There have been several well known forum posters who have made the same argument you have - that application technique is the difference between success and failure. The honest ones have come back after a few years to report that their asphalt installation has failed. Let's see what you have to report after a meaningful length of time has passed, assuming you've actually installed the stuff and aren't just repeating what you've heard on the internet.
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Old 03-24-2011   #180
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Citing opinion and others opinion that mirror yours is DANGEROUS ? Really, come on ? Really ?

Surely nobody would try a product that some have claimed will ruin or drip onto their equipment, over or around an amp, carpet or anything it could ruin ??

I was simply giving everyone my experience with this product and others who have used it, as well as everyone else who had bad experiences and posted them. And to anyone that may be using any product that has a chance of ruining their equipment , use with extreme caution !!! As far as the length of time the product has been on, i guess im using a different brand of Peel & Seal because mine has been on for 4 plus years and is still sticking strong and is not hard or brittle, but be warned your experience may not mirror mine !! THANK YOU !!

As soon as i can post pics i will send you some, because yes, i have actually installed it in my Car !! Honestly !! LOL

Really though guys, i wasnt suggesting anyone do as i do, i messed up on my wording there for sure !! And the products that are meant for Car audio sound deadening are obviously the best way to go, im just saying as a cheap alternative the P&S has worked well for me so far ! Thanks to the other posters for keeping me in check !!! LOL

Last edited by anthonyott99; 03-24-2011 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 03-24-2011   #181
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyott99 View Post
Citing opinion and others opinion that mirror yours is DANGEROUS ? Really, come on ? Really ?
No sir. Dismissing science as "opinion" and making recommendations based on that misdirection is what's dangerous. Opinion plays no role in describing material properties.
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Old 03-24-2011   #182
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyott99 View Post
Lets put this in a nutshell for all you noobs . . Everyone has an opinion, just do the research and maybe even try small amounts of different products and see which you like, if you dont like the Peel & Seal your only out 16 bucks , not hundreds like the other stuff so decide for yourself !!!!

Check out EXO's Peel & Seal review on YouTube

P.S. Just like any product, you get what you pay for, the expensive stuff does have the name on it at least !!!!!
My post was direct at guys like you....that go against given advice...You know the old saying...."You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it"....blinded by the lights
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Old 03-24-2011   #183
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trojan fan View Post
My post was direct at guys like you....that go against given advice...You know the old saying...."You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it"....blinded by the light
revved up like a deuce,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light,
revved up like a deuce,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light,

Last edited by anthonyott99; 03-24-2011 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 03-24-2011   #184
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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revved up like a deuce,
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Blinded by the light,
revved up like a deuce,
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Blinded by the light,
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Wrapped up like a douche,
Another boner in the night.

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Old 03-28-2011   #185
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

i was pretty convinced by peel & seal but, not so much anymore.

so what are the viable dynamat alternatives, or are there any?
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Old 04-24-2011   #186
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Good question....are there effective (cost and performance wise) alternatives to Dynamat? Thanks.

I'll pay the $ for whatever product is the best, I just have no first hand knowledge of what my top picks should be. Noob here.

Honda S2000 needs door and trunk deadening....maybe engine firewall area too, if doable.

Regards to all.
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Old 04-24-2011   #187
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYMA View Post
This cnanot be changed. Just like ice liquifies at 33 degrees, asphalt has its own glass transmission temperature and once met, it is all over.

ANT
Ice melts at 32 F or 0 C.
Not 33 F.
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Old 04-24-2011   #188
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Vancom, just look up Second Skin, RAAMat or Sound Deadener Showdown. They are all proven performers.

2000 Ford F-150 Supercab : CDA-9835, Massive Audio Ck6, Dayton RSS265HO in .67 net sealed, ZED Audio Leviathan Run Active
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Old 04-24-2011   #189
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancomycin View Post
Ice melts at 32 F or 0 C.
Not 33 F.


At 32 degrees, ice and water both exist at equalibrium depending on the temperature of the environment.

water freezes at 32 degrees
Ice melts at 32 degrees

All energy dependant however.
At 33 degrees ice has no chance of staying solid and is not environment nor energy dependant, which is why I cited 33, not 32..

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Old 04-24-2011   #190
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Just when you think he's not looking!

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Old 04-24-2011   #191
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRD View Post
I used PEEL & SEAL from Lowe's on my Mazda CX-7 and it have been working perfectly, no peel off at all, holds strong. 36" x 33.5' Roll for $80

My old Dynamat feel off on my trunk in my old car, PEEL and SEAL haves more sticky glue.





Would you use this for the doors as well, or just floor of the car?
Please let me know I'm interested of trying it out and putting it on my doors and trunk
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Old 04-25-2011   #192
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I'm a cheapskate. I'd save a buck anywhere I can.

But I do so in order to be able to spend a bit more when it makes sense to do so. As I want to improve my car's audio WITHOUT the possibility of it reeking of asphalt, I've not gone the HomeDepot route. Yeah it'll cost a couple hundred more this way, but this is an instance where the extra expenditure is worthwhile.
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Old 04-25-2011   #193
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
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Vancom, just look up Second Skin, RAAMat or Sound Deadener Showdown. They are all proven performers.
Thank you, I completely agree with you, I want a proven performer.

A business half hour from me fabricates this MLV...I might add it as well...

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Old 04-25-2011   #194
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYMA View Post
At 32 degrees, ice and water both exist at equalibrium depending on the temperature of the environment.

water freezes at 32 degrees
Ice melts at 32 degrees

All energy dependant however.
At 33 degrees ice has no chance of being water and is not environment nor energy dependant, which is why I cited 33, not 32..

ANT

Wow!

At 32 degrees, the temperature of the environment IS 32 degrees!

No one EVER cites that ice melts at 33 degrees,,,,just a small error.

Spelled equilibrium and dependent.

It's neither with nor OR
not with or, grammatically.

Again, at 33 degrees, which you still insist on, that IS your stated environment's temperature, as it's certainly not the temperature in the centre of your ice sample.


"At 33 degrees ice has no chance of being water and is not environment nor energy dependant, which is why I cited 33, not 32.."
This unqualified statement is completely wrong, factually, grammatically, and spelling-wise.

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Old 04-25-2011   #195
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancomycin View Post
Wow!

At 32 degrees, the temperature of the environment IS 32 degrees!

No one EVER cites that ice melts at 33 degrees,,,,just a small error.

Spelled equilibrium and dependent.

It's neither with nor OR
not with or, grammatically.

Again, at 33 degrees, which you still insist on, that IS your stated environment's temperature, as it's certainly not the temperature in the centre of your ice sample.


"At 33 degrees ice has no chance of being water and is not environment nor energy dependant, which is why I cited 33, not 32.."
This unqualified statement is completely wrong, factually, grammatically, and spelling-wise.

You are correct. I wrote it wrong but edited it to say what I meant, which is that ice has no chance of staying solid at 33f.

I guess I am simply not following you.
water turns to ice at 32f - no?
Ice turns to water at 32f - no?

At 33 degrees , the state of h20 is liquid. not solid.
Ice can exist at 32f and so can water, but only water can exist at 33. which is my point.

Now, if you can provide information which proves this wrong, without relying on insulting my poor grammar, the I am all ears. If you can't prove you point with insults, I really don't care to listen to why you think you are correct.

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Old 04-25-2011   #196
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Originally Posted by DIYMA View Post
You are correct.
ANT
Yes.

No insults. You're wrong.

It's a Forum (and you're apparently a Mod).

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Old 04-25-2011   #197
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Yes.

No insults. You're wrong.

It's a Forum (and you're apparently a Mod).


Please show me how I am wrong.
I am here to learn. Just like many others.
Show me how I am wrong, and I will change my position. I am flexible and will admit when I am wrong.

Last I checked though, when ice is heated to 33 degrees, it melts.
When water is cooled to 32 degrees, it freezes.

Show me differently and I will remove myself from this conversation.
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Old 04-26-2011   #198
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I just had to reply!

I did this mod on my 97 4Runner approximately four years ago. I read about it on YotaTech. It does work. It works great. Take the word of those who have tried it. If you still have doubts look elsewhere on the net. Don't listen to some of the negative comments in this thread. There are posts talking about patent numbers of rubber ... patent numbers! Non of that matters. This stuff works. Several members here have tried it. This mod is mentioned on many, many other sites as well.


This is one of the best mods for your money $$ - I am serious. I have no regrets. I had 3 days down time over spring break and took apart my 4Runner's entire interior.


I added this product covered with a layer of carpet padding where ever there was carpet. I did all the doors as well.

Smell: the vehicle only smelled for a week, that is it. In 4 years no one has ever complained of any chemical smell, in fact I get compliments for how quiet my truck is even though it is 14 years old and has a flowmaster.

Falls off: maybe depending on where you live. This product seems to stick best (for me at least) when it is warm or hot. I think if it was going to fall off it would have to be very cold. Here in sunny San Diego we don't have that problem and I have never had any issues. This is despite going to the Sierra Nevada pretty often in the Winter. Also, on my truck at least about 80% of this stuff is under carpet or panels. The only place where it could fall off is the doors and this hasn't happened yet on my rig, going on 4+ years.

This stuff really works and the price is killer. I think I spent $100 for a large 3 foot roll at an industrial distributor. That would have been ~ $1000 worth of dynomat.

I highly recommend you try this mod. If you are a skeptic then just do one door. Let it air out a week and post your thoughts. You will probably be pleased with the results.

I wouldn't even call this a "poor man's mod" the retail way is just a ripoff plain and simple.


@quickaudi07 - you would absolutely use it on the doors. Use it on everything in the interior. Take out the seats, strip it down.



addendum:
Take a chill pill people! I'm new to audio forums, I usually just stick to t4R.org but I am excited about this site.


Last edited by brianemc2; 04-26-2011 at 01:51 AM.. Reason: editing
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Old 04-26-2011   #199
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

^^^^ So in other words this stuff does smell??? Than I will pass on it
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Old 04-26-2011   #200
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I hope Rudeboy doesn't mind me copying a thread that he posted in another forum, but I believe it will shed some light on the subject.



Why Not Asphalt?
Close to half the vibration damping/noise mitigation threads on other forums are debates about using asphalt based materials as a vibration damper. I’ve spent way too much time during the last 5 years typing and re-typing responses to these questions. Let’s keep it in one place to reduce litter and redundancy.

This topic was my introduction to aftermarket “sound deadening”. I had a noisy car, wanted to quiet it down and started to do research. This was 2005. Several respected “authorities” were vocal advocates for asphalt. Part of this came from the belief that products like Dynamat Xtreme were part of a conspiracy to fleece consumers. Part of it was the often repeated “fact” that roofing materials and vibration dampers sold specifically for aftermarket automotive use were exactly the same thing. One cost pennies per ft² and the other dollars so it was worth investigating.

Some of you may remember that Sound Deadener Showdown used to be a testing and review site. Since I wasn’t able to find any conclusive answers on the forums, I decided to buy small quantities of every product I could. Two things were immediately apparent:
1.Nobody had ever had their hands on all of these products at the same time or they would have seen the obvious differences.
2.The people claiming that Dynamat Xtreme and roofing materials were exactly the same thing didn’t know what they were talking about.

I discovered a few other things very quickly. Many sellers were making outrageous claims. Some were wildly overstating obvious physical characteristics like thickness and mass/area. Others were either claiming outright that their asphalt products were butyl or were using intentionally deceptive descriptions like “rubberized compound” to describe their adhesive layer. Nobody seemed to be drawing the right conclusion from sellers’ attempts to hide the fact that they were selling asphalt.

For several years the argument was about durability. Asphalt had an unhappy tendency to melt or fall off. At the time, there were no reports of butyl adhesive failure – that had to wait a few years until one seller decided to re-purpose some low quality butyl roofing material. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why this was happening. All of these materials are asphalt with some sort of rubber added to increase heat tolerance. The generally accepted melting point for these compounds is 180°F. That seemed high enough for use in a vehicle, so what was going on?

Our perception of the heat these products are subjected to was wrong. We thought in terms of air temperature inside the vehicle, maybe 140°F-150°F? It turns out things are very different at the sheet metal. Park a Car in the sun during the summer, south of the Mason-Dixon line and you can easily get to 180°F+. That explains immediate failures in hot climates.

An insidious part of this problem is that many failures were reported during the second or third summer, many in fairly mild regions. The explanation was pretty simple. The rubber added to asphalt deteriorates over time when exposed to temperatures much lower than those required to melt the fresh material. As the rubber deteriorates, the melting temperature drops. Suddenly it doesn’t take much heat anymore.

The durability question has been answered to my satisfaction. Many high profile asphalt devotees, including some who went to almost insane extremes to install the material “properly” have had their installations fail over the years. A few of the brave ones have come forward and made their results public.

The pennies vs. dollars argument still nags. What if you plan to junk your vehicle after a few years (worse, plan to trade it in and don’t care what problem you are passing on)? Is asphalt a reasonable choice when durability isn’t a factor? Nope.

There are two main reasons people believe they can substitute asphalt roofing materials for CLDs:
1.They look alike – shiny on one side, black and gooey on the other.
2.They don’t understand how a constrained layer vibration damper works.
See: Caddy Shack, swimming pool scene for all you need to know about point 1. Point 2 needs more consideration. I used to believe that vibration dampers work by adding mass to a panel and lowering its resonant frequency below the audible range. This is completely wrong. They work through a fairly complex sequence of events that occur in the adhesive layer and between the adhesive layer and the constraining layer and substrate. I won’t go into the details here, please see:

Vibration damping
By Ahid D. Nashif, David I. G. Jones, John Phillips Henderson

The important point is that everything depends on the material property viscoelasticity. Basically this describes something that can be deformed and will then return to its original shape more slowly than it was deformed. The strains created during these events account for the conversion of vibration to heat that we’ve all heard about. Butyl adhesives formulated for vibration damping are viscoelastic. Asphalt isn’t – it doesn’t need to be to seal a roof.

Asphalt adds mass to a panel. It may stiffen the panel, but since stiffening raises resonant frequency, the two mechanisms are offsetting and reduce effectiveness even further. Those who claim to have used it and had good results aren’t giving you the full picture. These claims can be better stated as:

I used asphalt. It was better than nothing. I haven’t used a proper purpose designed vibration damper so I have no basis for comparison. It hasn’t failed yet.

Sometimes the endorsement is explicitly stated:

I used asphalt and it hasn’t fallen off.

Not falling off is a pathetically low standard of performance. Testing I’ve done has convinced me that it takes between 6 and 10 times as much asphalt to achieve something approaching the same result you will get with a real vibration damper. This puts the pennies/dollars question on its head. Add the durability concerns and the huge amount of extra work required and the answer is pretty obvious.

I’m sure some will want to argue the points I’ve made here. If that’s you, please stay away from “I used it and it worked for me”. That’s how we got into trouble in the first place and doesn’t make any more sense than concluding that cigarettes are good for you because your grandfather smoked a pack a day and lived to be 90. If you want to go there, please show us some evidence.
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