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Old 04-26-2011   #201
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianemc2 View Post


I highly recommend you try this mod. If you are a skeptic then just do one door. Let it air out a week and post your thoughts. You will probably be pleased with the results.

I wouldn't even call this a "poor man's mod" the retail way is just a ripoff plain and simple.



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Old 04-26-2011   #202
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

This is a very interesting thread guys. Please allow me to give a personal example that happened to me: I had already completed all 4 doors in my Chrysler 300 with Dynamat X and had decided to do my complete trunk area. Not wanting to spend the Dynamat prices, I opted for the EBay special "FatMat". I installed it 17 months ago in my trunk, and just a month ago after taking my vehicle in for service, the tech told me to take a look in the spare tire well........ Holy

There was a puddle in my tire well from where the FatMat had leaked!! I immediately came home and ripped out the FatMat only to see more leakage under the mat I had removed! I checked the side panels and other areas and didn't notice any issues at all, but removed every bit of FatMat from the tire well! Keep in mind, in a Chrysler 300, the battery and fuse box are located in the tire well also, so too close of a call for me...


Point is, take it from someone who has used FatMat first hand, it's not worth the hassle nor the headache later on. I live in Florida, park in the garage, and work from home, so the Car is driven around 800-1000 miles per month. That was the biggest pain in the arse to remove also!!


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Old 04-26-2011   #203
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cd300 View Post
This is a very interesting thread guys. Please allow me to give a personal example that happened to me: I had already completed all 4 doors in my Chrysler 300 with Dynamat X and had decided to do my complete trunk area. Not wanting to spend the Dynamat prices, I opted for the EBay special "FatMat". I installed it 17 months ago in my trunk, and just a month ago after taking my vehicle in for service, the tech told me to take a look in the spare tire well........ Holy

There was a puddle in my tire well from where the FatMat had leaked!! I immediately came home and ripped out the FatMat only to see more leakage under the mat I had removed! I checked the side panels and other areas and didn't notice any issues at all, but removed every bit of FatMat from the tire well! Keep in mind, in a Chrysler 300, the battery and fuse box are located in the tire well also, so too close of a call for me...


Point is, take it from someone who has used FatMat first hand, it's not worth the hassle nor the headache later on. I live in Florida, park in the garage, and work from home, so the Car is driven around 800-1000 miles per month. That was the biggest pain in the arse to remove also!!


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The true believers will attribute this to user error.
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Old 04-27-2011   #204
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

@ameuba10 & ALL ELSE

I come in peace so stay calm

Quote:
"Two things were immediately apparent:
1.Nobody had ever had their hands on all of these products at the same time or they would have seen the obvious differences.
2.The people claiming that Dynamat Xtreme and roofing materials were exactly the same thing didn’t know what they were talking about.

I discovered a few other things very quickly. Many sellers were making outrageous claims ....."
Sorry but this reply is yet another by someone who hasn't tried the mod. I am a user of the alternative material and it worked great. It has worked great for many others. I don't sell it and do not work in the industry. When I purchased it no one "sold me" on it. In fact I had to call around to even find the stuff, I finally located it at a roofing supply store - go figure.

I did this mod because I read about it in a user post on Yotatech.com. Someone else who had done it to their 4Runner said he was pleased with the results. I did my interior and was also very pleased.
This guy posted his story and claims his cab is now 2-3 times quieter using this stuff .. LINK >> Yotatech/cheap-cab-noise-reduction-194004/


Quote:
Guys,

I drove the freeways last night and whoa, so much quieter. Its so much quieter now that I actually hear the wind hitting the large mirrors. I'm convinced that it'll make more of a difference once I finish the doors.
The engine noise is what I hear most now. As much as I'd like to deaden the firewall, its alot of work that I can't even imagine doing, given this past weekend.
Also if I were to do it over again, I'd probably suck it up and buy something more pliable like the Brown Bread stuff.

Bob

It made a huge difference on my 97 4Runner as well. If you are curious then use google to seach YotaTech for the keyword sound. You will find this is a pretty common mod.

negative comments continued

Quote:
"There are two main reasons people believe they can substitute asphalt roofing materials for CLDs:
1.They look alike – shiny on one side, black and gooey on the other.
2.They don’t understand how a constrained layer vibration damper works."
I think this depends on your definition of subsitute ... I mean if you are an audio pro then why would you do this mod? If you are rich then why would you do this mod? However, if you are like the other 99% of the country who live on < 75k per year and would rather not spend $1000 on something they can alternatively do for $100 then YES this mod is probably for you. Again if you are building a pro system and looking to save a few buck then this isn't for you. On my truck this mod in particular mad the door components really shine.

What is my system .... nothing pro .. IMO it is decent.

Alpine Deck
Alpine V12 4 Channel Amp (4x100W RMS)
Infinity Kappa Component 6.5" set
Infinity Kappa 6x9 in rear
.5 F Cap
MTX 6500D (700W RMS @14.4)
Two MTX 12" mid level subs

Note: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANY BULLSH@T EBAY PRODUCTS. I went to a roofing store and bought a 100 square foot roll. What I bought looks exactly the the pictures posted on page 8 by quickaudi07. I have not suffered from a "rubber puddle" - those reports lead me to conclude that you shouldn't buy off of EBAY or try to get "alternative cheapo mat" - get the roofing mat from a roofing supply store! Please forgive my caps usage.

So in my conclusion .... the reason I did this mod is because I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE THE REAL DEAL ... for most of us who aren't rolling in $$ but still have decent vehicles the asphalt mod is a great alternative. The mod did two things on my 4Runner 1) nearly eliminated road noise 2) made my infinity speakers in the doors come to life, the bass difference is like night and day. What it did not do 1) turn into a puddle and leak 2)smell.



The end.
.

Last edited by brianemc2; 04-27-2011 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 04-27-2011   #205
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianemc2 View Post
Note: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANY BULLSH@T EBAY PRODUCTS. I went to a roofing store and bought a 100 square foot roll. What I bought looks exactly the the pictures posted on page 8 by quickaudi07. I have not suffered from a "rubber puddle" - those reports lead me to conclude that you shouldn't buy off of EBAY or try to get "alternative cheapo mat" - get the roofing mat from a roofing supply store! Please forgive my caps usage.

So in my conclusion .... the reason I did this mod is because I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE THE REAL DEAL ... for most of us who aren't rolling in $$ but still have decent vehicles the asphalt mod is a great alternative. The mod did two things on my 4Runner 1) nearly eliminated road noise 2) made my infinity speakers in the doors come to life, the bass difference is like night and day. What it did not do 1) turn into a puddle and leak 2)smell.



The end.
.
You're completely missing the point - points really. Asphalt is not a vibration damper. What you've done is create a half assed barrier and probably sealed up some air leaks through which sound was passing. "2-3 times quieter" and "nearly eliminated road noise" are meaningless metrics. I have no doubt your vehicle is somewhat quieter.

You cite cost difference as your primary justification and suggest that it is foolish to spend more on quality materials. In terms of vibration damping capacity, you could have accomplished the same thing, for the the same money and less work by using a vibration damper since you needed 10X as much asphalt for that purpose.

You have presented a very short sighted view of the economics. There is absolutely no doubt that asphalt has a high failure rate in applications like this. Having heard from thousands of people trying this, I'd guess something close to 50%. What's been most interesting is that some of the most enthusiastic supporters of asphalt roofing materials have been decent enough to come back after a few years to admit that their installation failed.

Even if the asphalt doesn't fail (reducing it's value to much less than zero since it will have to be cleaned up) the implications for future body work are substantial. Insurance will not pay for the extra work required to clean the panels before they can be repaired.

Since the cost difference disappears when we just compare vibration damping, that just leaves barrier function. Layers of anything that add mass to the panel will block some sound. These products are quite light, so you'll need 4 or 5 layers to reach the usually 1 lb/ft² of purpose designed materials. Because they are tightly bonded to the substrate, barrier efficiency is less than it would be with a properly decoupled barrier. These roofing products would actually work better if you just laid them in the vehicle with the release paper still attached. That should make things easier to clean up later.

The most important point is that all of the relevant science and years of user experience clearly demonstrate the weakness and potential danger of what you are suggesting. That being the case, people would be wise to ignore your advice unless you want to follow it with a guarantee that you will personally guarantee their results and make them whole if it doesn't work out.

Almost forgot to address your assertion that the BS eBay sound deadeners are inferior to roofing materials. They are exactly the same thing. One can question the integrity of people buying roofing materials and selling them as vehicle ready products, but you can't claim that one is better than the other. It's definitely not a "rubber puddle".
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Old 04-27-2011   #206
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianemc2 View Post
@ameuba10 & ALL ELSE

I come in peace so stay calm



Sorry but this reply is yet another by someone who hasn't tried the mod. I am a user of the alternative material and it worked great. It has worked great for many others. I don't sell it and do not work in the industry. When I purchased it no one "sold me" on it. In fact I had to call around to even find the stuff, I finally located it at a roofing supply store - go figure.

I did this mod because I read about it in a user post on Yotatech.com. Someone else who had done it to their 4Runner said he was pleased with the results. I did my interior and was also very pleased.
This guy posted his story and claims his cab is now 2-3 times quieter using this stuff .. LINK >> Yotatech/cheap-cab-noise-reduction-194004/





It made a huge difference on my 97 4Runner as well. If you are curious then use google to seach YotaTech for the keyword sound. You will find this is a pretty common mod.

negative comments continued



I think this depends on your definition of subsitute ... I mean if you are an audio pro then why would you do this mod? If you are rich then why would you do this mod? However, if you are like the other 99% of the country who live on < 75k per year and would rather not spend $1000 on something they can alternatively do for $100 then YES this mod is probably for you. Again if you are building a pro system and looking to save a few buck then this isn't for you. On my truck this mod in particular mad the door components really shine.

What is my system .... nothing pro .. IMO it is decent.

Alpine Deck
Alpine V12 4 Channel Amp (4x100W RMS)
Infinity Kappa Component 6.5" set
Infinity Kappa 6x9 in rear
.5 F Cap
MTX 6500D (700W RMS @14.4)
Two MTX 12" mid level subs

Note: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANY BULLSH@T EBAY PRODUCTS. I went to a roofing store and bought a 100 square foot roll. What I bought looks exactly the the pictures posted on page 8 by quickaudi07. I have not suffered from a "rubber puddle" - those reports lead me to conclude that you shouldn't buy off of EBAY or try to get "alternative cheapo mat" - get the roofing mat from a roofing supply store! Please forgive my caps usage.

So in my conclusion .... the reason I did this mod is because I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE THE REAL DEAL ... for most of us who aren't rolling in $$ but still have decent vehicles the asphalt mod is a great alternative. The mod did two things on my 4Runner 1) nearly eliminated road noise 2) made my infinity speakers in the doors come to life, the bass difference is like night and day. What it did not do 1) turn into a puddle and leak 2)smell.



The end.
.



IMHO, the important point that is being missed is by those who repeatedly insist that the desired endpoint is something different than "My system sounds much better to my ears."

That's all that matters.

I see both sides of this debate, and as an educated doctor who sometimes get frustrated when people don't understand very simple concepts pertaining to their own health, I notice some on this forum who have a feduciary interest ($) in the public's choice of product to, all good intentions aside, be stepping over the line, with repeated, lengthy posts. I say that respectfully as I am sometimes guilty of feeling "I know better" when it comes to my patients (and want to bang my head against the wall thinking WTF?)

Product X worked subjectively well for him, and saved him Y dollars. Great.

Should he be concerned about Factors a, b, c......well, it's up to him....the information (subjective or objective) is out there.

Let's not get paternalistic about sound deadening, lol.

My post is meant in the politest way
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Old 04-27-2011   #207
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancomycin View Post

I notice some on this forum who have a feduciary interest ($) in the public's choice of product to, all good intentions aside, be stepping over the line, with repeated, lengthy posts. I say that respectfully as I am sometimes guilty of feeling "I know better" when it comes to my patients (and want to bang my head against the wall thinking WTF?)

Product X worked subjectively well for him, and saved him Y dollars. Great.

Should he be concerned about Factors a, b, c......well, it's up to him....the information (subjective or objective) is out there.

Let's not get paternalistic about sound deadening, lol.

My post is meant in the politest way
In the 1950 cigarettes were promoted for their health benefits. If you came across this post:

Quote:
There's no doubt that smoking cigarettes is good for. People who don't smoke are fools. I've smoked a pack a day for 30 years, feel great and can run 5 miles in less than 30 minutes.
would your position be the same? Pecuniary interests aside (I argued this point for 5 years before having any financial stake in the outcome), these ideas are always presented without any mention of the potential downside. This is advocating doing something that's not only risky, but also doesn't even stand up to the savings argument that motivates it.

If the proponent of asphalt is happy with the outcome, like the smoker, that is fine. What needs to be argued against is the idea that he is presenting something that makes sense and should be followed by others. That makes it dangerous. Unfortunately, going through all of the points over and over again is the only way to avoid the pointless: "yes it is, no it isn't" thread from which no one will learn anything.
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Old 04-27-2011   #208
 
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Lightbulb Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Ok so I am starting to think that several of you guys posting work for companies that sell this stuff. If you do then just come forward and recommend your product directly. We would like to hear about it.

Quote:
In the 1950 cigarettes were promoted for their health benefits. If you came across this post:
WOW ... I mean comparing my modding my 4Runner over spring break and spending $100 to achieve a quieter cabin to ignoring the health signs of cigarettes. If you buy into this correlation, I have some Lehman Brothers stock I would like to sell you. While I have you on the phone I will explain why you should join AMWAY is as well.


Also, the point made below that "deadening sound and dampening vibrations are not the same thing" is loose science in my opinion. You start to get into the physics of it and this argument doesn't hold up.



To me it is simple.
I this is a cheap mod for some people to quiet their cabin.

I think my point should be phrased in this way: I am not saying this product is equal to dynomat or its sister products. But in my case an many others it is either this or nothing. I was very happy with the results. I have ridden in a lot of cars over the years and am aware of the spectrum of interior noise on the market. Some people can't afford Dynomat but want their cabinet to be quieter ... the users who therefore advise people they should stick with nothing ... well that just isn't very nice.

There are a lot of comments about how terrible this mod in this thread but if you search the net you will find that it has been done many times on many forums and yes some of those people do have an eye for sound quality.

Perhaps for some a good compromise would be to use the asphalt mod material for the interior - under the carpets and in the cabin and then use some kind of sound professional deadening material in the doors.

Best of luck to everyone. Again if you are interested in this mod and want to know more spend some time googling. Look at different sites, different threads. People here are seem to be against it.

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Old 04-27-2011   #209
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianemc2 View Post
Ok so I am starting to think that several of you guys posting work for companies that sell this stuff. If you do then just come forward and recommend your product directly. We would like to hear about it.
When this forum changed hands, I requested that we be able to identify company affiliations so it would be clear. That indication exists, right under my name. You don't have start to think anything - it's right there as plain as day.

Recommending my products directly is pointless. There are plenty of good products out there. Nobody would learn anything from that. Customers can relate their experiences with a business and a product. That may be useful to some readers. At the same time, one poster related his experience with asphalt failure and you dismissed that with a pretty contrived explanation.

I really don't know what to say to your point that differentiating between structure borne and air borne transmission is a worthless and unscientific consideration. I'm not directly comparing smoking cigarettes to using asphalt in your car. I really hope you understand that. I comparing the thought process that would lead one to either decision.

This is really getting silly. My point is that you are advocating something that is going to cause problems for a lot of people. Nothing I say will convince you that you have made a mistake and are encouraging others to follow your lead. The real test will be how you choose to handle things in the likely case that you do have problems.

Are you saying you installed this stuff THIS spring break? It hasn't been through one summer yet, let alone 2 or 3?
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Old 04-27-2011   #210
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Well I don't want to squash your business. In fact I wish I had the opportunity to talk with someone local such as yourself before doing this mod.

I did the mod over 2 days on Spring Break 2007. I really feel that your point in this thread should have been pitched as "the product I sell is better because of X, Y, and Z instead of don't do this doom will follow"

I don't want to bash your business. I did this mod, it worked for me. I don't think I have made a mistake because I am quite happy.

Rudeboy, I suggest you post a link to a guide thread using your product. Also include the amount of materials needed ect.
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Old 04-27-2011   #211
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianemc2 View Post
Well I don't want to squash your business. In fact I wish I had the opportunity to talk with someone local such as yourself before doing this mod.

I did the mod over 2 days on Spring Break 2007. I really feel that your point in this thread should have been pitched as "the product I sell is better because of X, Y, and Z instead of don't do this doom will follow"

I don't want to bash your business. I did this mod, it worked for me. I don't think I have made a mistake because I am quite happy.

Rudeboy, I suggest you post a link to a guide thread using your product. Also include the amount of materials needed ect.
I'm sorry that you don't think I could participate in a thread like this without thinking I would use it to discourage people from an otherwise sound course of action to put money in my pocket. Squashing my business really has nothing to do with any of this. I happily urge potential customers do something else almost every day. In this case, I'd suggest doing nothing rather than doing what you've done.

Since you've had the asphalt in your vehicle for 4 years, why not pull some panels and show us what it looks like. If it's spent all of this time in San Diego, it should be interesting. The important questions would be whether or not it has melted and if it is still reasonably flexible.
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Old 04-27-2011   #212
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

brianemc2. I know you are trying to work on rudeboy's credibility here since he is a vendor. But I remember a time way before he was in this business, when he first started researching this stuff and created a website comparing all the different products that many people used as a reference. He was un-biased then since he had nothing to sell and in the process managed to inform a lot of us.

He eventually, years later, created the company that you can see now. But throughout out the years, before the company, he was advocating the very same thing.

This guy cares and doesn't just want your money.
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Old 04-27-2011   #213
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Don you should have left your test site up that you ran testing all the different brands of deadener long, long, long before you ever started a business becuase you felt people where way over buying product, being taken advantage of and companies where advocating it to increase profits.

I can remember a day when you ran the test site that manufactures gringed if they had a sub-standard product sold as something else and you were about to test. Giving an unbiased report and truth about their product.

Guys please before you assume anything about Don make sure you know someone's background and Rudeboy's is very easy to find out. He has been around a long time regarding this topic.

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Old 04-27-2011   #214
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

At no point did Rudeboy mention his products. He never said "you shouldnt buy asphalt, you should buy my stuff. I recommend product X because its so much better than asphalt." He was clearly macking unbiased facts between both asphalt and butyl deadeners for Car use. I honestly, I have about 10 CLD tiles from sound deadener showdown applied on my 06 civic coupe, and my doors are DEAD. That comes out to $24.50. You can afford that in a month or two if you cutout a big mac meal here or there. Hell, save a dollar a day for a month and you got that covered. It would take many layers of asphalt base deadener to equal the same affectiveness. First off, you only need 25% coverage to be affective (this can be argued but the point is that total coverage and many is unnecesary). Also, as mentioned before deadener should absorb resonances! It kills the vibration! Asphalt only stiffens the panel its applied to thus making it more difficult to vibrate. The difference butyl makes over asphalt is massive. The reason some guys are noticing a difference with the asphalt deadener is because they use several layers and they create a barrier.
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Old 04-27-2011   #215
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Well I don't feel like multi-quoting or organizing my thoughts right now.
Some people need to learn the difference between sound blocking and vibration control. Use the right tool for the job. Dynadick, fatdick , second nuts, I don't care what you use, all cld's do is stop vibration. They will NOT effectively block roadnoise. You need a barrier like mass loaded vinyl if you want to do that. If your going to go through the trouble of taking apart your entire interior then you might as well use something that isn't going to fail and make a giant mess. Rudeboy isn't going to sell you anything you don't need. In fact if I remember correctly he won't like to sell you anything till you take measurements and figure out exactly how much you need. Please read the two websites I linked at the top of the page and decided for yourself /END

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Old 04-27-2011   #216
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Default

Guys I just stoped by home depot and that shit smells really bad not worth it!
I guess there is no cheep way out. And you get what you pay for

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Old 04-27-2011   #217
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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Old 04-29-2011   #218
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

wish I had considered this before..seems like such a saver
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Old 04-29-2011   #219
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonadwarrior View Post
wish I had considered this before..seems like such a saver
Oh yea is a saver, only if you want your Car to smell like fresh pod hole filler, lol

It really sticks guys, I don't know how you be able to sit in the Car with that smell, also who knows how long it will take to dry that sell out... Its not worth it in my opinion. Spend the money once, and do it right the first time!..

Thats just me!
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Old 06-16-2011   #220
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I have an old 1959 VW Double Cab that I am doing a full rebuild on. I am on a budget and was considering the P&S, but am now looking for a real solution that is as cost effective as possible. I have some serious square footage in my bus and want to just cover the important areas. Front speakers are mounted in front and sub is in the rear in the cubby. I'd post some pictures, but I don;t have enough posts just yet.
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Old 06-16-2011   #221
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

The smell goes away within a couple days. I just used some to seal up some holes and add additional layers in some areas. Definitely works just not as good as non asphalt based.

Its good only based on proximity as its right at home depot. If you couldnt buy it there, no one would use it. But it does have lots of good uses.

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Old 06-16-2011   #222
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

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The smell goes away within a couple days. I just used some to seal up some holes and add additional layers in some areas. Definitely works just not as good as non asphalt based.

Its good only based on proximity as its right at home depot. If you couldn't buy it there, no one would use it. But it does have lots of good uses.
The smell is nearly enough to detract me alone.My wife already doesn't like the VW smell of exhaust and gas mixed with old coconut seat pads.

My bigger concern is that I live in Utah. This past year, we had a few days that were over 100 in the summer, lots of the summer days in the 90's, but we also had days where it was 4 degrees in the winter. That extreme temperature change cannot be good for the asphalt I'm guessing. Our roads are hammered. The streets are full of potholes in the winter.

The last thing I need is the cheap stuff dying and having to tear down the bus again, but can the higher end/dynamat/SDS stuff handle that?
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Old 06-16-2011   #223
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

No, Im in NJ and we have the same temperature range. It will stick with no melting. The smell is not permanent but I used raamatt then did some peel and seal over it and cover holes using it. Its very adherent but not as good as a good butyl product, just practical. I covered a wheel well using noting but peel and seal. Used a lot of layers and the improvement was great. I just didnt want to wait for mail order. But its not just as good by any means

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Old 06-16-2011   #224
 
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

This stuff will be all around me, I'd hate to run the risk. Have any of you used Accumat, hush mat or deadskin? I do not want to use a liquid paint on material either.
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Old 06-16-2011   #225
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Default Re: Home depot "dynamat" for real this time?

I was happy with raamatt

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