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Old 01-12-2011   #1
 
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Smile Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

This company called the foam factory sells different types of foam mats.
Neoprene Sheets, Rubber, Poker Table Foam, Neoprene Pads

According to Sound Deadener Showdown's foam description
Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

It is "Vinyl/Nitrile Closed Cell Foam", well the description on The Foam Factory says that "Technical name is Polyvinyl Chloride Nitrile Butadiene Rubber" so unless I'm missing something, this is the same thing, but instead of paying

$1.10/sq ft, for 1/8" from SDS or
$1.60/sq ft, for 1/8" from SS for Overkill

you get this stuff for $.34 cents/sq ft, for 1/8" aka 32 square feet for 11 bucks lol. They have it in thicknesses up to 2". This seems to be a decent alternative to name brand stuff.

All I really need it for is a decoupler for mass loaded vinyl(which I'm trying to hunt out a cheap supplier for as well).

Let me know what you think. I dont think theres much technology involved here for closed cell foam since its supposed to be an innermediate layer above an anti vibration mat.
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Old 01-17-2011   #2
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Have you tried calling them to see if they could at least give you some feedback on the difference of the 2 products. Since I had to upgrade several of my speakers I was going to do without any sound dambering, but if that stuff will work I may be able to afford to after all.
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Old 01-17-2011   #3
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

subscribed.

Working on MLV and lead sheeting myself.

So far this site seems to be the lead for MLV

Mass Loade Vinyl Mat
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Old 01-17-2011   #4
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

looks interesting and inexpensive. maybe you can ask for a few swatches from both companies and compare them??

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Old 01-17-2011   #5
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Seems like I have seen that site posted on here before, but I don't remember for sure. Looks like a good price for what you are getting though. CCF is pretty much CCF...

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Old 01-18-2011   #6
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Yea after doing some more research there really isn't a audio specific ccf. It's just a decoupler so anythig will work just fine. Actually open cell foam would absorb sound better but closed cell foam seems to be more durable for this application. I did have a home soundproofing company tell me they use open cell foam to decouple their MLV though.

The link for mvl posted above is about the best price/quality I can find. I have this posted in my cheap MLV thread too. There is a place cheaper

AMERICAN MLV 54"X20' 1# 90 SQ FT

Shipping is about 50 bucks to me for both companies for 90sq feet. I just don't know the quality of this company though.
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Old 01-18-2011   #7
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

I've always heard that you can use those foam yoga mats to decent effect. Sometimes you can find those cheap.
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Old 01-18-2011   #8
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
I've always heard that you can use those foam yoga mats to decent effect. Sometimes you can find those cheap.
I've never done yoga but aren't those mats at least half an inch thick. If they make them 1/8 thick then it's not a bad ide, but I'm thinking any athletics store is going to charge more because it's "yoga" specific you know lol
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Old 01-18-2011   #9
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

I actually have a couple of old yoga mats (if your into karma sutra yoga is a BIG plus) laying around. They are not that dense or thick, but I guess it could work.
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Old 01-19-2011   #10
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Interesting... I might try some of their closed cell foam

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Old 01-19-2011   #11
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

I didn't go through all the links provided so forgive me if this one has
already been shared. I've purchased product from these folks and they
are GREAT to work with. This is about the best price I've been able to find.

Anyway, this is the link I hope you find it useful
Microcell Foam
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Old 01-19-2011   #12
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

A few clarifications:

Anything that inserts air between the barrier layer and the substrate will work as a decoupler, but there are other things that need to be considered. You want a closed cell material for vehicle use so that it doesn't absorb moisture or odors. Building interiors can use open cell foam and sometimes do since it is less expensive but that application can expect to stay dry. Most building construction applications don't use any sort of sponge since the barrier is suspended on the studs.

There's nothing magical about vinyl/nitrile as a decoupler. Vinyl is a very difficult material to bond. Having vinyl content in the CCF lets you use vinyl specific materials.

Vinyl/nitrile is the base material for these products. Saying all vinyl/nitrile CCFs are the same is like saying all cars that are made out of steel are the same.

For applications where compression is an issue - most places in a vehicle, you want a CCF with low compression set. You also want a material that is completely closed cell.

Finally, you really want a material with decent burn characteristics.

Here's an electron microscope image of SDS CCF:


Here's a competitors product that is actually more expensive, at the same scale:


Notice the size of the cells and that there are visible passages between them. I guess the point is, as in any comparison that only considers cost, value gets overlooked. It may be natural to assume that a product sold for aftermarket automotive use is going to carry a premium. I can promise you that isn't always the case.
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Old 01-19-2011   #13
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

The above information is good and I agree ccf should be used instead of open cell or other decouplers. Being realistic about some things though...talking about moisture and odor: I would think that if this situation was an issue in a vehicle you would be screwed anyway. Sure your 1/8 in foam wouldn't absorb it and smell but what about the carpet or inch+ foam below the carpet my old BMW has.

There are a lot more places that can absorb moisture and since there aren't any holes in my floor for the moisture to come through the body of my car, the main issue would be a drink spill or some rain getting in as you open the door.

In these cases the liquid has to get through my carpet, carpet foam, and a solid layer of MLV web before r would touch that little but of foam. I like being preventative but to be honest I don't think it's necessary most of the time, at least for that reason.
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Old 01-19-2011   #14
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMUmpower View Post
The above information is good and I agree ccf should be used instead of open cell or other decouplers. Being realistic about some things though...talking about moisture and odor: I would think that if this situation was an issue in a vehicle you would be screwed anyway. Sure your 1/8 in foam wouldn't absorb it and smell but what about the carpet or inch+ foam below the carpet my old BMW has.

There are a lot more places that can absorb moisture and since there aren't any holes in my floor for the moisture to come through the body of my car, the main issue would be a drink spill or some rain getting in as you open the door.

In these cases the liquid has to get through my carpet, carpet foam, and a solid layer of MLV web before r would touch that little but of foam. I like being preventative but to be honest I don't think it's necessary most of the time, at least for that reason.
I don't completely disagree with this, except for "I don't think it's necessary most of the time". This is a decision that should be made on a case by case basis. As a seller, it's important to me to provide materials that are a good or better than OEM materials that I am confident will do no harm.

Even if someone doesn't care about that, it's important to accurately weigh the risks. In areas with high humidity, the problem is moisture absorbed with possible condensation during cooler nights. You also need to realize that it's not just a question of keeping liquid away from the sheet metal. Moist materials will mildew creating a pretty unpleasant situation.

I've been pretty amazed at how easy it is to get things wet inside a car. I'm in Maryland and we have every possible weather condition. Even with rubber mats, cleaning my boots before I get into the car, snow seems to end up on the carpet. If your windows ever fog up, you can be sure that there is humidity inside the vehicle to penetrate the porous materials within.

Everyone should consider the issue for themselves, based on the conditions they are dealing with and how much they care about the vehicle. Let's not mislead them into thinking it isn't an issue though.
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Old 01-19-2011   #15
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

I have to agree with Rudeboy, I have known a LOT of cars that have moisture problems. Just because the factory carpet padding stinks with mildew when things get wet, doesn't mean you want your audio stuff having that same limitation. The older the car gets, the less the OEM seals function at keeping out moisture, and the more "faint smell" issues I seemed to have in the winter. Like he said, a lot of it is due to moisture migration and then condensation. At any rate, it is definitely case-by-case basis.

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Old 01-19-2011   #16
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

I think any closed cell foam you buy is going to be very moisture resistant. That's just the nature of the beast. I still say though even if you put a sponge down there, I don't see much difference since the rest of the foam and carpet would mildew as well. If the foam didn't you still have mildew in the car anyway. I'm just saying it isn't much if an argument for that reason alone. The mechanical and compression resistance would make much more sense.
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Old 01-19-2011   #17
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

I ordered a couple sheets of the gymnastic 1/8 inch mats on the 13th. I will see how good it is... The only thing is I havent seen any ship date yet, or tracking info. So Im not sure how long they take to get it put the door?

Thanks

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Old 01-23-2011   #18
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam

Quote:
Originally Posted by jace314 View Post
I ordered a couple sheets of the gymnastic 1/8 inch mats on the 13th. I will see how good it is... The only thing is I havent seen any ship date yet, or tracking info. So Im not sure how long they take to get it put the door?

Thanks
Any update? Of course I wait to buy and now they are out of stock of the 1/8 sizes...just like half the other stuff for my project..

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Old 01-24-2011   #19
 
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Default Re: Super Cheap Closed Cell Foam



This is in Alabama MASS LOADED VINYL WITH 1/4" OPEN CELL FOAM - eBay (item 350433351540 end time Jan-28-11 08:06:00 PST)
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