View Poll Results: Do you use rear fill?
Yes 437 41.58%
No 614 58.42%
Voters: 1051. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2009   #376
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 32
Posts: 777

Rep Power: 77 I800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX/Z28 View Post

Maybe this is why one of my favorite car's had dash mounted off axis 6.5" drivers and on axis tweeters. The midbass both provided direct off axis sound, and indirect (reflected) on axis sound. Soundstage was high, and everything sounded real. Voices had depth, and an impressive staging presence.

This same car BTW had no rear fill.


That's an idea I had wanted to try and implement. I think it would work very well without any need for "fill". Nice to see somebody's already been there

This whole issue with stock locations might force me to end up 3-way + sub.

Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
SOLD--04 Grand Prix: 9887, 346is, R12, Leviathan--http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...e-install.html
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009   #377
DIYMA 500 Club
 
BigRed's Avatar
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 3,100

Rep Power: 120 BigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (18)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

so I guess your answer wrx is "no, I don't use it"


Team Zapco
"once you go floor, you'll never go door"
"I can easily make the most expensive car stereo system sound like junk in less than 30 seconds"
BigRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009   #378
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 2

Rep Power: 0 legend921 will become famous soon enoughlegend921 will become famous soon enoughlegend921 will become famous soon enoughlegend921 will become famous soon enoughlegend921 will become famous soon enoughlegend921 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

So coaxials is not needed in the rear? I was thinking of buying some one way with no tweets in the rear since they don't really need to be bright in the back with the use of the tweeters. I know most here don't use rear-fill, but I am going to run it since I haul people around here and there.
legend921 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009   #379
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 135

Rep Power: 67 titansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I stopped using rear fill when I decided to run an active front stage, around two months ago. From the results that I have achieved running active, I will never use rear fill again. It did take a while to get used to, but there is a huge difference in quality running active....a positive difference of course. When I have backseat passengers, I'm usually talking to them with the radio off anyway...no rear fill!!
titansfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009   #380
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
WRX/Z28's Avatar
 
Create a new enthusiast.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,571

12V Company:
Imagine Audio

Rep Power: 102 WRX/Z28 will become famous soon enoughWRX/Z28 will become famous soon enoughWRX/Z28 will become famous soon enoughWRX/Z28 will become famous soon enoughWRX/Z28 will become famous soon enoughWRX/Z28 will become famous soon enough

Send a message via AIM to WRX/Z28

iTrader: (47)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
That's an idea I had wanted to try and implement. I think it would work very well without any need for "fill". Nice to see somebody's already been there

This whole issue with stock locations might force me to end up 3-way + sub.
In the grand prix, their rear speakers are high and large. I can't fathom how rear fill wouldn't be disruptive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
so I guess your answer wrx is "no, I don't use it"
Correct. Never have. Since 15 years ago when I first started building systems. Never competed, never felt the need. Winning competitions doesn't seem to prove that your car sounds the best, or even good, just that it scores well on a judges card, or you are popular at the events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legend921 View Post
So coaxials is not needed in the rear? I was thinking of buying some one way with no tweets in the rear since they don't really need to be bright in the back with the use of the tweeters. I know most here don't use rear-fill, but I am going to run it since I haul people around here and there.
The idea is just to buy a midrange/midbass driver at that point. I think you might be looking at dual cones or something. They still make some higher frequency stuff, albeit with tons of distortion. Stay away...

Quote:
Originally Posted by titansfan View Post
I stopped using rear fill when I decided to run an active front stage, around two months ago. From the results that I have achieved running active, I will never use rear fill again. It did take a while to get used to, but there is a huge difference in quality running active....a positive difference of course. When I have backseat passengers, I'm usually talking to them with the radio off anyway...no rear fill!!

Thats a good point too. What headunits/processors have the ability to do 3 way active (or even 2 way) and still run rear fill with bandwidth limiting and time alignment capabilitys?

Are we suggesting we should go back to passives to be able to run rear fill?

"Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy." - Sir Isaac Newton
“The wise understand by themselves; fools follow the reports of others”
Tibetan Proverb quotes
WRX/Z28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009   #381
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 32
Posts: 777

Rep Power: 77 I800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX/Z28 View Post
In the grand prix, their rear speakers are high and large. I can't fathom how rear fill wouldn't be disruptive.

...

Thats a good point too. What headunits/processors have the ability to do 3 way active (or even 2 way) and still run rear fill with bandwidth limiting and time alignment capabilitys?

Are we suggesting we should go back to passives to be able to run rear fill?

Fill wouldn't utilize any mid bass in my application. Looking at the theory reflecting off the back glass seems to be what you want. In order to do 3-way I'd have to be passive up front too. Everytime I turn around there's another caveat for a particular idea.

It's maddening!

Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
SOLD--04 Grand Prix: 9887, 346is, R12, Leviathan--http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...e-install.html
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009   #382
DIYMA 500 Club
 
BigRed's Avatar
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 3,100

Rep Power: 120 BigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (18)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX/Z28 View Post
Correct. Never have. Since 15 years ago when I first started building systems. Never competed, never felt the need. Winning competitions doesn't seem to prove that your car sounds the best, or even good, just that it scores well on a judges card, or you are popular at the events.
ok, so for somebody that has never competed, you are basing your opinion on what? what somebody else said? "sounds the best" is subjective

The topic here was rear fill and if you use it. I don't know how we got on competitions and what sounds best. A debated issue nonetheless

So lets look at this from another angle. Do you think a full orchestra would sound good in a 15x15 room? I mean, you would be getting rear reflections from the orchestra bouncing off the wall, which was one of the arguments to not use rear fill....or do you think it would sound better in a room 100 feet wide and 50 feet tall, and 300 feet deep? The idea of rear fill is to fool the ear into thinking the listening area is larger than it really is. Does it work for every song? no. 95%? yes. I don't think its fair to say it doesn't work if you have never tried it either. I'm not talking rear speakers attenuated. I'm talking time aligned with a serious delay, attenuated, and L-R. I'm not arguing my point because I read it on the internet. I'm giving my real world experience with it.

Suggestion: do the above and report your experience, not what you heard or read about


Team Zapco
"once you go floor, you'll never go door"
"I can easily make the most expensive car stereo system sound like junk in less than 30 seconds"
BigRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009   #383
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 135

Rep Power: 67 titansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enoughtitansfan will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Big Red made a good point. When I ran rear fill, i used time alignment and the "works", to minimize what they did to my front stage. Rear fill did make my system sound larger and more spacious. But, with a lot of time and work, an active front stage will achieve the same results...it did for me when I got rid of my rear fill.
titansfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009   #384
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Horsham, PA.
Posts: 38

Rep Power: 64 Aarmin will become famous soon enoughAarmin will become famous soon enoughAarmin will become famous soon enoughAarmin will become famous soon enoughAarmin will become famous soon enoughAarmin will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

No; to me rear-fill just interferes with the front stage to much. However, when done properly they can be a great addition, the key is properly. I lack the knowledge, and I am perfectly happy with my front stage.
Aarmin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009   #385
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 19

Rep Power: 0 ///M Kevin will become famous soon enough///M Kevin will become famous soon enough///M Kevin will become famous soon enough///M Kevin will become famous soon enough///M Kevin will become famous soon enough///M Kevin will become famous soon enough

Send a message via AIM to ///M Kevin

iTrader: (5)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

It looks like the majority of people here don't use rear fill.
///M Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009   #386
 
instalher's Avatar
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ponteix
Posts: 201

Rep Power: 65 instalher will become famous soon enoughinstalher will become famous soon enoughinstalher will become famous soon enoughinstalher will become famous soon enoughinstalher will become famous soon enoughinstalher will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

rear fill is for movies and some, but very limited c.d. recored in 5.1 all music is recorded in two channels otherwise...
instalher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009   #387
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 32
Posts: 777

Rep Power: 77 I800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by instalher View Post
rear fill is for movies and some, but very limited c.d. recored in 5.1 all music is recorded in two channels otherwise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Kevin View Post
It looks like the majority of people here don't use rear fill.



No...majority of people just have no idea how to implement fill properly...or even its intended purpose.

Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
SOLD--04 Grand Prix: 9887, 346is, R12, Leviathan--http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...e-install.html
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009   #388
DIYMA 500 Club
 
BigRed's Avatar
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 3,100

Rep Power: 120 BigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the roughBigRed is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (18)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
No...majority of people just have no idea how to implement fill properly...or even its intended purpose.
agreed


Team Zapco
"once you go floor, you'll never go door"
"I can easily make the most expensive car stereo system sound like junk in less than 30 seconds"
BigRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009   #389
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nashville
Posts: 29

Rep Power: 58 overtone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by instalher View Post
rear fill is for movies and some, but very limited c.d. recored in 5.1 all music is recorded in two channels otherwise...
Well, not really.

You'd have to have a deck with more than just L/R outputs for that to be true. Adding rear speakers simply adds another set of left and right speakers to the setup. You could add 200 more speakers if you wanted, but as long as they're being fed by left and right channels, it's still just stereo, not 200.1.
overtone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009   #390
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 32
Posts: 777

Rep Power: 77 I800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overtone View Post
Well, not really.

You'd have to have a deck with more than just L/R outputs for that to be true. Adding rear speakers simply adds another set of left and right speakers to the setup. You could add 200 more speakers if you wanted, but as long as they're being fed by left and right channels, it's still just stereo, not 200.1.
seriously?

Read the last few pages please.

Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
SOLD--04 Grand Prix: 9887, 346is, R12, Leviathan--http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...e-install.html
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009   #391
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nashville
Posts: 29

Rep Power: 58 overtone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enoughovertone will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
seriously?

Read the last few pages please.
What I was saying was that a deck that has 5 outputs will offer 5 channels, and popping in a SACD that's been mixed in 5.1 will yield true 5.1 audio. But a deck that has only L/R outputs will still produce L/R signals regardless of how many speakers you add to each output. Processes like Pro Logic II do not offer true surround from stereo, but rather simulated surround.

There are a lot of tricks you can do to a stereo audio signal. You can use sum and difference matrixing to isolate the center information and fake a "center" channel, you can use all kinds of phase and delay techniques to widen the image and make things appear to come from behind. Using eq and phase, you can mostly isolate certain elements and feed them to new channels you've created. You can even make it sound like things are coming from inside your head. It's amazing what can be done.

But these are all tricks used to simulate surround sound. They rely on deconstructing the soundstage that is created by a stereo signal. That's not the same as having five discreet channels. None of those processes is perfect, and all of them degrade and/or affect the sound and the mix in one way or another.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the use of the term "rear fill". If you're referring to surround speakers carrying discrete channels of audio that were intended to be only in those speakers, then yes, rear fill is for 5.1 and other types of surround. However, if you're talking about the speakers in the backseat that are for the passengers -- the ones that are fed by the "L Rear" and "R Rear" channels -- that signal isn't going to be true surround no matter what kind of audio trickery you play on it.
overtone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009   #392
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 32
Posts: 777

Rep Power: 77 I800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overtone View Post

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the use of the term "rear fill". If you're referring to surround speakers carrying discrete channels of audio that were intended to be only in those speakers, then yes, rear fill is for 5.1 and other types of surround. However, if you're talking about the speakers in the backseat that are for the passengers -- the ones that are fed by the "L Rear" and "R Rear" channels -- that signal isn't going to be true surround no matter what kind of audio trickery you play on it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but majority of the people answering in this thread haven't even researched proper methods for fill. Using full range stereo is not fill. It is not supposed to be surround sound either. The purpose of fill is to use your existing rear speakers to support the sound stage you're creating through the addition of ambience. If you read the last 5 pages or so you'll see that a number of members have chimed in to reveal the proper method for achieving this idea.

I hope others will begin to understand this too. Degenerate semantics make us all stupid :/

Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
SOLD--04 Grand Prix: 9887, 346is, R12, Leviathan--http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...e-install.html
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009   #393
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Socal
Posts: 398

Rep Power: 110 monkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (11)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
I'm not trying to be a jerk but majority of the people answering in this thread haven't even researched proper methods for fill. Using full range stereo is not fill. It is not supposed to be surround sound either. The purpose of fill is to use your existing rear speakers to support the sound stage you're creating through the addition of ambience. If you read the last 5 pages or so you'll see that a number of members have chimed in to reveal the proper method for achieving this idea.

I hope others will begin to understand this too. Degenerate semantics make us all stupid :/
Okay so I went back 5 pages as suggested and found this: [QUOTE=I800COLLECT]
I would suspect that majority of the people who use rear fill do not use any processing at all. If that was the definition of rear fill I'd certainly run like hell. Those types of installs deserve heavy critique. But a few individuals have piqued my interest based on their theories on how to properly tune the setup and with my nieces staying with me through the summer, it makes sense to try out some of these ideas (werewolf's old threads I think?).

I can't say I'm educated on car audio but I do understand the idea behind hifi. With that...rear fill seems to only makes sense if you're attempting to fix whatever is lacking with your installation in the front. But, ironically, since rear speakers add so much complexity to the setup, simply adding those man hours to reconcile the installation up front would make more sense. Manipulating multipe sound sources doesn't sound like fun or easy. I can appreciate the attitude that's so far against it...

...but is it possible to tune rear fill to support the fronts correctly? Worst case I'll just use different settings for when the kids are in the back seat.

Was this a hot topic prior to DIYMA becoming a sponge for new guys like me? QUOTE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So as a recent proponent/advocate of 'properly' executed rear fill, how does it sound in your car? I'm kinda stuck on the original question..."do you use it"?
monkeybutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009   #394
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 32
Posts: 777

Rep Power: 77 I800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the roughI800C0LLECT is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Is that an indirect critique of my comments? Because you're not the OP and never did ask. Trying to create a catch 22? I did try it and it sounded great imo. I'm still discerning how I'll make it part of my permanent install. At this point I'm stuck with the idea of using passives on channel 1&2 while using 3&4 bandpassed from the 9887. All other attempts have proven to be wasteful and time consuming.

Have you ever tried what has been defined as proper technique? You've been part of this thread for quite a bit too Monkey but I'll redirect anyways.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post819683

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post826310


Here's a bit more for new readers.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post438223

Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
SOLD--04 Grand Prix: 9887, 346is, R12, Leviathan--http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...e-install.html

Last edited by I800C0LLECT; 10-10-2009 at 12:22 PM..
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009   #395
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Las Vegas NV
Age: 46
Posts: 588

12V Company:
performance audio of las vegas
Position:
sales

Rep Power: 63 gymrat2005 will become famous soon enoughgymrat2005 will become famous soon enoughgymrat2005 will become famous soon enoughgymrat2005 will become famous soon enoughgymrat2005 will become famous soon enoughgymrat2005 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
I'm not talking rear speakers attenuated. I'm talking time aligned with a serious delay
Just asking here, but aren't rear speakers usually located further from the front, so in order to time align correctly, it's the fronts that would have to be delayed from the rears..no?
gymrat2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009   #396
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Socal
Posts: 398

Rep Power: 110 monkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enoughmonkeybutt will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (11)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
Is that an indirect critique of my comments? Because you're not the OP and never did ask. Trying to create a catch 22? I did try it and it sounded great imo. I'm still discerning how I'll make it part of my permanent install. At this point I'm stuck with the idea of using passives on channel 1&2 while using 3&4 bandpassed from the 9887. All other attempts have proven to be wasteful and time consuming.

Have you ever tried what has been defined as proper technique? You've been part of this thread for quite a bit too Monkey but I'll redirect anyways.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post819683

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post826310


Here's a bit more for new readers.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post438223
Even though not the OP, I did ask or you couldn't have quoted me eh? And no 'Catch 22' intended as by definition that would have been an impossible/ or no win situation. You either did or didn't use it in your car.
As to that I'm glad you like the effect and I can see your quandary as if you go passive you lose T/A on individual drivers of your front stage drivers.

I have tried attenuated and limited bandwidth way back before T/A was commonly available and it wasn't worth the effort. I wouldn't say it destroyed my front stage, but unless the volume was kept quite low, it reduced clarity. For all the effort, it added nothing to the experiance.

I have heard attenuated, limited bandwidth, and delayed rearfill and the ambience effect did not make the experiance more real or enjoyable. Never heard L-R so I don't know about that.

I remember early Dolby surround sound for HT back in the early/mid nineties that did not have discrete channel information. It had some sort of derived center speaker signal and attenuated, bandwidth limited, and delayed rear channels. Kinda cool echo effect at times, but the dialogue was muddy and the staging vague/weird at best. This is consistant w/ my experiance when applied to a car. I ended up using regular stereo for movies. Compared to this, discrete 5.1 and 6.1 surround sound are a godsend.
monkeybutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009   #397
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: tahlequah, ok
Age: 30
Posts: 475

Rep Power: 99 savagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

oops
wrong thread

/\Eclipse 8443><2xCadence 30 Band EQ/\/\ 2xUS Acoustics 2080><Tang Band Bamboo w3/\/\2xUS Acoustics 2150><Dayton RS225/\
/\Elemental Designs 9.1><Elemental Designs 19Ov.2/\
savagebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009   #398
 
chongl's Avatar
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Socal
Age: 28
Posts: 91

Rep Power: 79 chongl will become famous soon enoughchongl will become famous soon enoughchongl will become famous soon enoughchongl will become famous soon enoughchongl will become famous soon enoughchongl will become famous soon enough

Send a message via AIM to chongl

iTrader: (6)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I think I already voted, but that was for my old car. It gets tempting to have a switch for rear fill when there are passengers around, but as of now they remain disconnected
chongl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009   #399
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 817

Rep Power: 77 tintbox will become famous soon enoughtintbox will become famous soon enoughtintbox will become famous soon enoughtintbox will become famous soon enoughtintbox will become famous soon enoughtintbox will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I use and when delayed properly it makes my system sound ten times better.
tintbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009   #400
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: tahlequah, ok
Age: 30
Posts: 475

Rep Power: 99 savagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enoughsavagebee will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I am switching up my front stage right now, and am seriously considering using my old 6.5" midbass/range for this application.

I know I would need another channel of amplification, and I could split my midbass rcas and do some trickery to get the l-r going, but the problem i would have is I wont be able to use the 300-3k freqs. Id be limited to my midbass settings, which will probably be 65-800 or so.

Im still wanting to try is, as there is a ton of info in those ranges, so it may still work.
My problem is I dont have 8 channels of ta, Im limited to 6. is there a way to simulate the Haas effect in an analog manner? if I know its 20 ms than I could try it with a static setting.

Thanks in advance

/\Eclipse 8443><2xCadence 30 Band EQ/\/\ 2xUS Acoustics 2080><Tang Band Bamboo w3/\/\2xUS Acoustics 2150><Dayton RS225/\
/\Elemental Designs 9.1><Elemental Designs 19Ov.2/\
savagebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
rear fill


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


» Amps
A/d/s/
Advent
Alphasonik
Alpine
American Bass
ARC Audio
Atomic
Audio Art
Audio Gods
Audiobahn
Audiocontrol
Audiopipe
Audison
Aura
Autotek
Avionixx
Bazooka
Beyma
Blaupunkt
Boss
Boston Acoustics
Bravox
Cadence
Cascade (CAE)
CDT Audio
Cerwin Vega
Clarion
Clif Designs
Concept
Coustic
Critical Mass
Crossfire
Crunch
DB Drive
DC Audio
DC Power
DEI
Denon
Diabolo
Diamond
Digital Designs
Directed
DLS
Dual
DYnamat
Dynaudio
Earthquake
Eclipse
Elemental Designs
ESX
Eton
Farenheit
Fi Car Audio
Focal
Fusion
Genesis
Ground Zero
Hafler
Helix
Hertz
Hifonics
Hushmat
Image Dynamics
Infinity
Interfire
JBL
Jensen
JL Audio
JVC
Kenwood
Kicker
Knu Konceptz
Kole Audio
Kove Audio
Lanzar
Lightning Audio
Linear Power
MA Audio
Magnat
Marantz
Massive Audio
MB Quart
McIntosh
Memphis
Metra
Milbert
MMATS
Mobile Authority
Morel
MTX
Nakamichi
Niche Audio
O2 Audio
Ohio Generator
Optima
Orion
Oxygen Audio
OZ Audio
PG Audio
Phase Linear
Phoenix Gold
Pioneer
Polk
Power Acoustik
Powerbass
Powermaster
Precision Power
Profile
Pyle
Pyramid
RadioShack
Rainbow
Rampage
RE AUdio
Rockford Fosgate
Scanspeak
Scosche
Seas
Sony
soundstream
Sparkomatic
SPL Dynamics
Stinger
Sundown Audio
Swiss Audio
Targa
TC Sounds
TREO Engineering
TRU
Tsunami
Ultimate
US Acoustics
US Amps
Velodyne
Vifa
Viper
Visonik
Xtant
Zapco
Zed Audio
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Ad Management by RedTyger

Meet Our Team | Forum | Privacy and Rules | Advertise | Archive | Search | Contact Us

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy