View Poll Results: Do you use rear fill?
Yes 437 41.58%
No 614 58.42%
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Old 03-09-2008   #101
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I have always run rear fill. I have alot invested in my cars audio though. If you run rear fill, you will want to make sure the front is as much or more than your rear fill. Also be careful if you choose to keep the 4ch. to bridge. It may not be bridgable,nor be able to handle the lower ohm load. Most amps will say on them. Good luck!
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Old 03-09-2008   #102
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

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Originally Posted by mudnubbz View Post
I have always run rear fill. I have alot invested in my cars audio though. If you run rear fill, you will want to make sure the front is as much or more than your rear fill. Also be careful if you choose to keep the 4ch. to bridge. It may not be bridgable,nor be able to handle the lower ohm load. Most amps will say on them. Good luck!
You mean bridge the amp and run the rears in series? That is what I did back when I use rear fill. It help to eliminate rear localazation.

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Old 03-09-2008   #103
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

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Originally Posted by andymtx View Post
You mean bridge the amp and run the rears in series? That is what I did back when I use rear fill. It help to eliminate rear localazation.
Yep. Only adding time delay into the mix improves the effect even more.

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Old 03-09-2008   #104
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andymtx View Post
You mean bridge the amp and run the rears in series? That is what I did back when I use rear fill. It help to eliminate rear localazation.
man thats a killer idea. This would then run rears in mono?

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Old 03-09-2008   #105
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I ran rear fill in a sedan I used to have. I had two 3 inch mids mounted in the center of the rear deck aimed slightly back at the rear glass. Gave them very little power. I liked the effect, but time delay would have helped even more.
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Old 03-09-2008   #106
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

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man thats a killer idea. This would then run rears in mono?
correct
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Old 03-09-2008   #107
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by placenta View Post
man thats a killer idea. This would then run rears in mono?
to my knowledge, the opposite. a bridged amp will sum the input signals. By inverting one signal, the summation will result in an L-R (as in, L + (-R)) signal. This would be run as a bridged output to a rear speaker.

By running the two rear speakers in series, they both get this L-R signal.

Finally, by inverting the right speaker, we invert the signal to get a -(L-R) signal, or an R-L signal.

Thus, by starting with only L and R and a bridgable amp and NO processing, we have rearfill where the left driver receives L-R and the right driver receives R-L
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Old 03-13-2008   #108
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I use rears only for surround while watching movies...for music I fade the rears all the way out. I stopped trying to run rear speakers in like
'96 and haven't looked back.
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Old 03-13-2008   #109
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
to my knowledge, the opposite. a bridged amp will sum the input signals. By inverting one signal, the summation will result in an L-R (as in, L + (-R)) signal. This would be run as a bridged output to a rear speaker.

By running the two rear speakers in series, they both get this L-R signal.

Finally, by inverting the right speaker, we invert the signal to get a -(L-R) signal, or an R-L signal.

Thus, by starting with only L and R and a bridgable amp and NO processing, we have rearfill where the left driver receives L-R and the right driver receives R-L

Yep...

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Old 03-13-2008   #110
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hispls View Post
I use rears only for surround while watching movies...for music I fade the rears all the way out. I stopped trying to run rear speakers in like
'96 and haven't looked back.
But, what did you try? Conventional means of thinking in this thread will get you nowhere.

Cheap route to better sound through rear fill = L-R with delay.

More expensive route = dedicated 5 to 7 channel upmixing of 2 channel source via some processor.

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Old 03-13-2008   #111
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Rear Fills are awful! Think about it does any home audiophile ever buy extra speakers for their 2 channel stereo listening and put them behind their ear? Nope it never happens! I competed in a half-baked little SQ contest here at a stereo shop in Boise ID. What a joke. At the time I had an Alpine 7949 and a pra-h400 running a 3way active front stage off of a pair of zapco c2k 3.0 amps. Also a single 12 tc sounds 2000 in a sealed enclosure running on a fosgate bd500. No RTAs for this contest just 2 guys listening and scoring subjectively. I got my butt kicked by guys running coaxials on deck power that were sold and installed at this particular store. When I asked what they didn't like about my setup...they commented "you need to turn your rear fills down. There is too much sound coming from the rear." Thats when I told them I wasn't running any rear fills. I think that just about ruined the legitimacy of their stupid SQ contest. SAY NO TO REAR FILLS!
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Old 03-18-2008   #112
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

On an unrelated note, I never trust anyone who starts their supportive argument with "think about it," or "trust me,". Not anywhere.

They may just be hedging words, but in writing they do say much more than your typical hedge phrase.

Geo, did you get your midranges installed yet all the way through retuning your crossovers, gains, and delays across the whole car yet? I need an established fully tuned car with a 3 way stage and rearfill.
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Old 03-18-2008   #113
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ge0 View Post
But, what did you try? Conventional means of thinking in this thread will get you nowhere.

Cheap route to better sound through rear fill = L-R with delay.

More expensive route = dedicated 5 to 7 channel upmixing of 2 channel source via some processor.

Ge0
I do suspect that running the right processing equipment would help get a realistic effect. I've just never thrown down on that sort of thing. Also with no access to an RTA adding more sources creates even more peaks and dips that are very difficult to isolate and correct.

Just for me. I have no doubt that with enough effort and processing power it would help. I suspect if I had ever seen/heard it done properly I'd put more effort into experimenting with it.
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Old 03-18-2008   #114
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

If you could afford an amp that could do this
quote:
Left Minus Right / Right Minus Left Ambience Circuit: Ambient effect for rear channels
end quote:
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=256

Like the JL Audio 500/5 [original "Slash"series ]
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Old 03-25-2008   #115
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

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Originally Posted by a$$hole View Post

Like the JL Audio 500/5 [original "Slash"series ]
Too funny... my last install was with the 500/5 and I never hooked up the the rears. I say no to rear fill justified like many with the backup of home audio. True music sets up a front sound stage- rear speakers are for surround sound and movies; no buisness in a car.
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Old 03-25-2008   #116
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

i have rear fill ....but it's gained down like 12db though .....u know for Ambience ....
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Old 03-26-2008   #117
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Well I can't really explain it, and it's probably because my front components aren't amped, but my system right now sounds way better with the 6x9s turned on than when I fade them out.

Running stock deck, Infinity Reference 6.5" comps up front and Infinity Reference 6x9s in the back. It's how the car came, so basically what I did was fade the rears to where they weren't as noticeable but my stage height and imaging is way better that way then if I fade all sound to the front!

When I get a 500/5 I will run them off ambiance circuit and run imprint to see what it does.
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Old 03-26-2008   #118
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoNtO View Post
Well I can't really explain it, and it's probably because my front components aren't amped, but my system right now sounds way better with the 6x9s turned on than when I fade them out.

Running stock deck, Infinity Reference 6.5" comps up front and Infinity Reference 6x9s in the back. It's how the car came, so basically what I did was fade the rears to where they weren't as noticeable but my stage height and imaging is way better that way then if I fade all sound to the front!

When I get a 500/5 I will run them off ambiance circuit and run imprint to see what it does.
It's what ever sounds best to you that works!

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Old 03-26-2008   #119
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

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It's what ever sounds best to you that works!
Yeah seriously! I'm coming from my last car which had no rear fill to this now! I felt dirty at first, but then realized it's the overall sound that's better. I really think that my stock deck is just crapping out, there's no dynamics and when I turn up the volume sometimes it turns it down instead. It's like the internal amp is crying in pain!

Anywho, back on topic: I tried to explain this to a friend once about rear fill but he said he likes equal sound all around!
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Old 03-26-2008   #120
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Just a general statement.

But why do so many people chime in that havent tried rear-fill with the necessary components nor experience keep chiming in with ' there's no way...does a concert have rear fill ...all rear-fill people are loopy'

Fact is...you havent ever done a proper rear-fill experiment. So how do your comments hold any water in this discussion?

Not bashin. But gee...think outside the box for a second folks. There's some very intelligent people here telling you it can and will work. And yet you defend it with ' my Hello Kitty boombox doesnt use it ...so there's no way it should be considered '



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Old 03-26-2008   #121
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calponte View Post
Just a general statement.

But why do so many people chime in that havent tried rear-fill with the necessary components nor experience keep chiming in with ' there's no way...does a concert have rear fill ...all rear-fill people are loopy'

Fact is...you havent ever done a proper rear-fill experiment. So how do your comments hold any water in this discussion?

Not bashin. But gee...think outside the box for a second folks. There's some very intelligent people here telling you it can and will work. And yet you defend it with ' my Hello Kitty boombox doesnt use it ...so there's no way it should be considered '


Well put!

Once again car audio means a lot of different things to us all. We are all expecting SOMETHING that is different from everybody else's systems. I like to keep my install simple and easily transferable from different vehicles. So this really limits me in my installation options. Does everyone have this need? Of course not. So YOU need to find what is that something that puts a on your face! It's different for everyone!

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Old 03-28-2008   #122
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
On an unrelated note, I never trust anyone who starts their supportive argument with "think about it," or "trust me,". Not anywhere.

They may just be hedging words, but in writing they do say much more than your typical hedge phrase.

Geo, did you get your midranges installed yet all the way through retuning your crossovers, gains, and delays across the whole car yet? I need an established fully tuned car with a 3 way stage and rearfill.
Still fidgiting with gains, phase, and time. Sounds pretty good but something minor just isn't right. The three way sounds better tonally, but the two way front had it slightly beat elsewhere for now. I am confident I will solve this one. I've only had a few lunch hours to work on it.

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Old 03-28-2008   #123
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

IM A HARD CORE 3CH FAN. NO REAR FILL EVER. WHY DO YOU THINK EVERY MAJOR WINING CAR IS SET UP THAT WAY. WHAT ABOUT DESTRUCTIVE INTERFEARANCE (YOUR BACK SPEAKERS AND FRONT WILL NEVER DO THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME) IM A RETAILER AND TELL CUSTOMERS WHY SPEND 200 ON FRONT SPEAKERS AND 200 ON REAR AND THROUGH A FOUR CHANNEL AT 75x4 ON THEM AND HAVE HO-HUM SOUND. IF YOU SPENT 400 ON THE FRONT AND BRIDGED THAT AMP AT 150X2 IT WILL SOUND AWSOME . JEFF MEECE MECP TOP 100 INSTALLER
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Old 03-29-2008   #124
 
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

I don't get why you needed to yell that...
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Old 03-29-2008   #125
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Default Re: Rear Fill: do you use it?

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IM A HARD CORE 3CH FAN. NO REAR FILL EVER. WHY DO YOU THINK EVERY MAJOR WINING CAR IS SET UP THAT WAY. WHAT ABOUT DESTRUCTIVE INTERFEARANCE (YOUR BACK SPEAKERS AND FRONT WILL NEVER DO THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME) IM A RETAILER AND TELL CUSTOMERS WHY SPEND 200 ON FRONT SPEAKERS AND 200 ON REAR AND THROUGH A FOUR CHANNEL AT 75x4 ON THEM AND HAVE HO-HUM SOUND. IF YOU SPENT 400 ON THE FRONT AND BRIDGED THAT AMP AT 150X2 IT WILL SOUND AWSOME . JEFF MEECE MECP TOP 100 INSTALLER
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