I am moving my amps from under the seats to a false floor. This means I have room for more or larger amps, but can I use more power? Because I have ICSBAS (ICan't Stop Buying Amps Syndrom), I have lots a lots of amps of various sizes. All old school Orion GX.
My midbasses are 12" and can take more power than I have. Currently I have 160 watt at 8 ohms going to each. Is this more than I need, is it just stupid or is it not enough. I have the amps to go up or down.
So is there a way (science) to see if I am using all the power or half of it or do I need more? For example if I use a small fuse and it doesn't blow does that mean I am not using all the power?
you have several amps...i do as well, and the same issue you have..lol..i just run /try an amp out one or two weeks at a time till i go through them, and choose the best that i have and leave it.. lol..only way to figure out if you want /need more power/sq/or both
You have the same mids as the GN, right? As I recall, it had a 3545(250 x 2) bridged to each one. And it was playing at its limit. So, yeah, you could go more. I think headroom for the hardest working driver in a system sounds like a fine idea.
" You don't appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle-aged woman. Stuff you pay good money for in later life." ~ Elmo Phillips
I say bridge an Orion to each midbass. As your system sits now ( I know you're gonna be changing some things for higher efficiency) do your midbass overwhelm the rest of the setup?
Like they say... you can never have too much power.
Mark Z; I have access to an O-scope. Should I play the system as loud as I can take (it gets loud) and then check for clipping. Or is there more? The amps never get warm but they are mono into 8 ohms, not 4. If they don't get hot does that mean they aren't working hard. As you can see, I know nothing about electronics.
Fish; You can't have to much power...true. I have 7 amps, 6 would be better. They all take up space, need power wire... It is hard to tell what is most over whelming, either the midbass or the midbass.
Mark Z; I have access to an O-scope. Should I play the system as loud as I can take (it gets loud) and then check for clipping. Or is there more? The amps never get warm but they are mono into 8 ohms, not 4. If they don't get hot does that mean they aren't working hard. As you can see, I know nothing about electronics.
Something like that. It's sometimes hard to check for clipping in music with an o-scope. IMO, the easiest way might be to set the volume to the setting you're accustomed to (this will probably vary from recording to recording... aim for "typical"), and then use a 0dB sine wave at that volume setting to see how badly it's clipping. It's fairly easy to detect clipping with a predictable-looking waveform, that's why I'm suggesting the 0dB sine wave.
SS D100 front tweets Morel MT23
SS D200 front Mids PHL 1120 (was Audax PR170M0)
SS D200 mono center - JBL 104H and Morel MT23
SS MC140 bridged to rears - TG9
Orion GX280 bridged to each JBL 2204
Orion GX280 bridged to DIYMA12
JBL MS8
My real weaknesses are the center and the rears. They are not that sensitive and cant take anymore power.
I would like to trade out the 2 GX280 for one GX2150, but if I needed more power I could go with 2 GX2150's.
Something like that. It's sometimes hard to check for clipping in music with an o-scope. IMO, the easiest way might be to set the volume to the setting you're accustomed to (this will probably vary from recording to recording... aim for "typical"), and then use a 0dB sine wave at that volume setting to see how badly it's clipping. It's fairly easy to detect clipping with a predictable-looking waveform, that's why I'm suggesting the 0dB sine wave.
I am meeting my EE car audio enthusiast bud this weekend to install his MS8 and maybe we will have some extra time for the O-scope.
SS D100 front tweets Morel MT23
SS D200 front Mids PHL 1120 (was Audax PR170M0)
SS D200 mono center - JBL 104H and Morel MT23
SS MC140 bridged to rears - TG9
Orion GX280 bridged to each JBL 2204
Orion GX280 bridged to DIYMA12
JBL MS8
My real weaknesses are the center and the rears. They are not that sensitive and cant take anymore power.
I would like to trade out the 2 GX280 for one GX2150, but if I needed more power I could go with 2 GX2150's.
Thanks for the amp suggestion, but I am trying to keep my total investment from getting out of hand. So far I have only spent...never mind I don't want to add it up. The 2204's might have been the week link in Clarks car, but his was a horn car and his purpose was to destroy his competition. My car gets loud enough, that if I wanted I could make anyone get out by turning the volume knob. My question really is can I get more dynamics with more power.
Hopefully (?) the clipping test that Mark suggested will tell me if more power will help.
subwoofery - Why did you suggest swapping out the Soundstream D200 and using the 280GX? I have always felt that the GX's are better at bass and midbass and the Soundstreams better mid and up. Both are about the same power.
I went from 150 watts to 300 on my 10" Faitals & could hear & feel a difference. Although, I would've been content with 150, since I had 300/channel available without spending any extra coin I figured I might as well use it.
How do u ppl choose a 12 inches mid bass? Can two 12 inches sub like may be two 12W6 be made a mid bass by having one on both side of the door? Or is there a dedicated 12 inches mid bass?
How do u ppl choose a 12 inches mid bass? Can two 12 inches sub like may be two 12W6 be made a mid bass by having one on both side of the door? Or is there a dedicated 12 inches mid bass?
For high output, low distortion & maximum dynamics, we are using pro-audio drivers (Faital Pro, Beyma, 18 Sound, B&C, etc...)
^ those are not car audio drivers...
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Not sure what the W6's FR is, but I doubt they'd play up to 200-300hz very well. Plus, those things weigh about 25lbs or so, they'd take your doors off the hinges. Even if they held on you wouldn't hear anything but rattles.
I went from 150 watts to 300 on my 10" Faitals & could hear & feel a difference. Although, I would've been content with 150, since I had 300/channel available without spending any extra coin I figured I might as well use it.
Why are you doing this to me?
I am still going to try MarkZ method when I get a chance. If the amp is not even getting warm, is that evidence that it is not working hard and I have all the power I need?
Last edited by mitchyz250f; 05-08-2012 at 12:02 PM..
Seriously! Why are you doing this to me. I am still going to try MarkZ method when I get a chance.
If the amp is not even getting warm, is that evidence that it is not work hard.
Might be. But if you're running well above the amp's rated impedance, it might not get warm but still be clipping. Increasing power, therefore, would result in a reduction of distortion. Although it generally takes quite a bit of clipping to become audible anyway -- but let's face it, most of us are perfectionists beyond the point of rationality.
Might be a stupid suggestion but since you have an 8 ohm driver, why not have your Orion GX modded to provide full power @ 8 ohm bridged? Like putting 4 ohm power @ an 8 ohm load.
Dunno how much that would cost but shouldn't be that much money...
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Can i get suggestion for proper model of 12 inches Pro Audio drivers that I can use for this application? I'm also wondering if this pro audio driver can do well in mid bass why not many ppl taking this route?
The price is so much cheaper than Scanspeak or Seas....Can it really out-perform this drivers like Scanspeak and Seas in SQ? If so why is it so much cheaper than those raw drivers?
I think Im going to try this....or can anyone tell me a better one? With 500 W RMS of mid bass power....I just cant imagine how strong and loud the mid bass will be....sorry im new to this...
Last edited by Lars Ulriched; 05-08-2012 at 09:27 PM..
There are plenty to chose from. I use the JBL 2204. It is a 20ish year old version of the JBL 2206, but has a lower Le and sounds better according to many people that I consider JBL or car audio experts. This is what Richard Clark used in his GNC and you can find them for $75 -$100 on craigslist or ebay.
If you buy the 2204's (or any JBL) you need to make sure they have the OEM JBL cones. I alsways send pics of the backs of the cone to the 'Langsing Heritage' forum for verification. They need 1 cu/ft, mine are sealed.
Fish (what kind f name is that?) uses 10" Faital's, I don't remember which ones, but I do remeber the specs were impressive and driver required a smaller box.
Don't be fooled into thinking only expensive speakers sound good or even better.
Do I need more power or do I have too much
Linear Mode
