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How to connect Zapco DSP6-SL Symbilink to Audison VRx amp Balanced input?

7K views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  prosper 
#1 ·
Hi,

I notice that Audison VRx amp have balanced input capability. (using special RCA jack)...

and Zapco DSP6-SL processor also known to use Balanced Input and Output design which called symbilink.

I am thinking of connecting Symbilink output of DSP6-SL processor to Balanced input of Audison VRx amp.

I plan to cut open symbilink cable, and soldered the corresponding cable to Audison VRx special balanced cable with special RCA jack that goes into the Audison input...
basically what I mean is a cable that at one end have symbilink connector and the other end have audison style balanced RCA connector...
is this possible?

My other question is, does the Audison VRx is a trully balanced input design (differentially balanced)?
does the Zapco balanced design is compatible with Audison balanced design?

My Last question is:
I know the Zapco balanced output can go much higher then Audison maximum balanced output which only at 5volts, but I can always turn the gain on Zapco output lower... can I ???

Has anybody done this before?

any advise is greatly appreciated ,
thanks...
 
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#2 ·
You will need a DIN to RCA Female Cable. You can get it from your local Zapco Dealer or the Zapco website.

Don't worry about the output voltage you will be ok.

I don't know enough to answer the VRX balance question but IMO you should be fine.

If you don't have the VRX yet I would look at the Zapco CK series amps.IMO
 
#3 ·
You will need a DIN to RCA Female Cable. You can get it from your local Zapco Dealer or the Zapco website.
Hi,

by using DIN to RCA female cable, it will also convert the full balanced signal from Zapco into ordinary unbalanced RCA.

this work well for Amp that does not have Balanced Input,

but since Audison according to the manual accept balanced input,

I would prefer to keep it balanced all the way.
 
#5 ·
You would need to contact Robert at Zapco. I think you can make a cable to work if you know the pin outs.

I do not think you are going to find the answer on here other wise.

Just go to the Zapco forum and ask this question under the tech section. pm or email Robert at Zapco.
 
#6 ·
You would need to contact Robert at Zapco. I think you can make a cable to work if you know the pin outs.

I do not think you are going to find the answer on here other wise.

Just go to the Zapco forum and ask this question under the tech section. pm or email Robert at Zapco.
Hi,

Robert is a nice guy and I have talk to him several time.
but I do not think Robert can comment on non Zapco product,
and
I do not want to bother Robert with questions since the product involve non Zapco's

but I want to thank you for your kind reply
 
#11 · (Edited)
You know what is funny,

I actually contact Audison Tech support e-mail from their website,
and asking whether Audison VRx accept balanced input from other brand/Head Unit.

Audison Tech support reply the e-mail, and they tell me to ask my country importer/agent of Audison...

I reply back and say,
my country agent/importer does not know about this...
beside, why don't you, as the Tech Support from Audison HeadQuarter give me answer...
It would be faster, and surely more reliable, I told them... (factory should know it better)

and Audison Italy Tech Support never reply me back...
The Customer/Tech Service at Audison Italy sucks...
unfortunately they made good sounding amp...


Zapco Technical Support is GREAT especially the Director (Robert)
Robert is very good guy and answer lot of my questions about Zapco product
and he always reply to me very very fast.
I am very impressed with Zapco customer support.

it just that I want to use Zapco DSP6-SL on active 3 way configuration for the front channel.
and I am thinking of using either Audison VRx Amp or Zapco C2K,
for the 3 way active front channel.
and if possible I want to go to my local car audio shop and listen to both combination before I buy them.
They are expensive amp, and I want to make sure it is money well spend.

but for the processor, I already made up my mind and it will be Zapco DSP6-SL

too bad Zapco DSP6-SL can only handle 3 way configuration for now, and not 4 way.
so if I do 3 way (tweeter,midrange,midbass) active front channel, it already use all the DSP6-SL channel...
and no channel left in the DSP6-SL for the Sub channel time alignment...

so for the subwoofer I can not get the Time Alignment adjustment from the DSP6-SL,
unless I buy one more unit of DSP6-SL, which is a waste...

to solve this problem for the Sub, I will buy Zapco DC reference Amp, since this model have it's own Time Alignment processor built it.
but still this DC Reference Amp is surely will not sound as good as the top of the line Zapco C2K... (money don't lie, right?)

but for now, this is my only solution, unless I use two unit DSP6-SL processor...
 
#12 ·
You will not notice a difference running a DC amp or C2K amp on a sub.IMO There are alot of competitors and great DIY systems running DC amps.

Another option is to use a HU with 4 pair out, something like the DRZ9255 and use it to control the sub, this will give you T/A, X-over, EQ ect. for that amp controlled by the HU.

Just a thought.

Either way using the DC or DRZ would get you where you want to be.
 
#13 ·
You will not notice a difference running a DC amp or C2K amp on a sub.IMO There are alot of competitors and great DIY systems running DC amps.

Another option is to use a HU with 4 pair out, something like the DRZ9255 and use it to control the sub, this will give you T/A, X-over, EQ ect. for that amp controlled by the HU.

Just a thought.

Either way using the DC or DRZ would get you where you want to be.
Hi Brian,
I want to keep my original factory HU.
because it look great on the dash, look factory,
and it also have other functions beside radio that I want to keep.
Not to mention the steering wheel volume function.
The car is a BMW E90 3 series.
(model professional non logic 7)
It have a balance speaker level output,
and it's a full range uncrossovered / unprocessed output,
as long as you tap into it after the HU but before the BMW OEM amp.If you tap it after the BMW OEM amp, that speaker level output is not full range anymore...

and I plan to connect the HU output directly into zapco DSP6-SL symbilink input.

Robert already show me how to do this connection from HU to Zapco DSP6-SL...

Thanks
 
#15 · (Edited)
the top of the line McIntosh Car Amp actually use true XLR style connection !!! :)
but I always wonder, which head unit have XLR style unit :)...
funny...

anyway,the symbilink do have a third conductor acting as shield.
and symbilink is using a DIN style connection.

every higher end Zapco amp does not use RCA anymore and only use Symbilink.
but they provide you (price included) with RCA to Symbilink adaptor
and that adaptor also make the RCA signal into Balanced signal with Symbilink connector to go into Zapco amp.

inside the symbilink cable it contain 9 cables.
3 for right channel (with shield), 3 for left channel (with shield),
3 for power supply to other symbilink device (with shield).

but I was told that when you connect the output of BMW HU, which contain only + and - without shield, you can just connect with with + and - of the symbilink and no need to connect the shield cable from the symbilink to anything.

and I agree with you "capnxtreme", that the Audison RCA (from the manual) looks like it have and extra conductor between the center pin... and yet it is still compatible to take ordinary RCA (non balanced 2 pin only input)...
 
#16 ·
Two conductor circuits, like RCA, are not capable of a balanced signal. Three conductors are required. Twisted pair cables have nothing to do with whether the signal is balanced or not.
 
#17 ·
Prosper,

If it has the third leg for the negative signal then you should be fine. You just need to get the information on the cable and probably need to pick up one of the Audison Cables that have the third leg like you described. I have not tried it with those amps, and I have not seen the manual you are talking about but from the sounds of it from what you have described it can be done.
 
#18 ·
Prosper,

If it has the third leg for the negative signal then you should be fine. You just need to get the information on the cable and probably need to pick up one of the Audison Cables that have the third leg like you described. I have not tried it with those amps, and I have not seen the manual you are talking about but from the sounds of it from what you have described it can be done.
Hi Robert,

thank you again for your response.
I do not ask you direct by e-mail this time, cause I do not want to bother you with Audison question... :)

but if you curious to see the audison manual, it is on their web site on the VRx pages.
One manual is for the entire VRx line.
Perhaps some of your dealer might want to do this kind of combo too (Zapco DSP6-SL and Audison VRx amp),
because some of their customer might already own Audison amps for a while and want to add time alignment for it...

anyway, I am currently opening several web pages reading all your previous posts here on this FORUM,and also post from any other member containing either the DSP6-SL and the C2k or DC Reference...
Lot of information here.

by the way, would you please tell your production director to just launch the DSP8-SL asap, :)
it will surely sell very well...

Thank you again for your kind reply

Best regards,
Hadi
 
#21 · (Edited)
http://autoaccindo.com/audison/

got the answer in the above website:

ABS BALANCED INPUTS AND OUTPUTS
AUDISON CABLE ABS connection system is properly studied for balanced transmission, although it is also compatible with traditional, unbalanced PIN-RCA connector. The ABS sockets used by VRx allow both transmission according to the extension used.

ABS (Audison Balanced System) UNBALANCED TRANSMISION LINE
In an unbalanced connection, signal is transmitted along a central conductor and along the shield, connected to ground. Strong electromagnetic disturbance can imply a voltage variation on the central conductor despite shielding. This voltage variation will be amplified causing noise.

BALANCED TRANSMISION LINE
In balanced connection, signal is transmitted in opposite phase along two central conductors that are not referred to ground which, on the contrary, shield is referred to. Electromagnetic disturbance implies voltage variation in phase on both central conductors connected to input stage. Since the latter is differential, it will amplify only signals that are in opposite phase and eliminate those which are in phase, that is noise.
 
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