Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-07-2008   #1
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chiacgo
Posts: 16


Rep Power: 0 Buck62 will become famous soon enoughBuck62 will become famous soon enoughBuck62 will become famous soon enoughBuck62 will become famous soon enoughBuck62 will become famous soon enoughBuck62 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

I was talking to a mobile audio and alarm installer yesterday who was telling me that soldering your wires/connections is always sturdier and better than using Scotchlok type connectors, especially for alarms and remote starters.

Thoughts?

Experiences?

I'm thinking of adding a 4-channel amp in my Tundra and a remote-start/alarm system and was wondering which is the better way to insure sturdy connections.

Any input would be appreciated... thanx.
Buck62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #2
 
tristan20's Avatar
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: home
Age: 39
Posts: 311

Rep Power: 112 tristan20 will become famous soon enoughtristan20 will become famous soon enoughtristan20 will become famous soon enoughtristan20 will become famous soon enoughtristan20 will become famous soon enoughtristan20 will become famous soon enough

Send a message via AIM to tristan20 Send a message via MSN to tristan20 Send a message via Yahoo to tristan20

iTrader: (15)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Of course solder is better
tristan20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #3
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Vestax's Avatar
 
Blends No. 27
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,203

12V Company:
Hi_Fidelity
Position:
Lead Installer

Rep Power: 125 Vestax will become famous soon enoughVestax will become famous soon enoughVestax will become famous soon enoughVestax will become famous soon enoughVestax will become famous soon enoughVestax will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

In my experience, Scotchlok, t-taps, butt connectors fail on bigger awg wires... starting especially at 10awg due to the fact that most people don't use the right tools to crimp the connections. Like I've seen a couple of guys use those Klein strippers to crimp their 4 awg terminals? WTF?
I guess the same goes with soldering, if you don't have good soldering skills, does that mean soldering is better?

Connections are as good as the one who made them is what I say.

USUC World Champion - Stock System Class. Super Street Division. Special Edition Bose 26 piece speaker system with enhanced ported tweeters. 89.2 db Legal, 89.6 db Outlaw.
Vestax's Install
Vestax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #4
 
MuTT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 485

Rep Power: 97 MuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

not sure about the states, but scothlocks are illegal in a vehicle in Canada, I assume for good reason.


JUSTONEMOREAMP installed my TechFlex for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad View Post
"your mother" in the butt of many many
MuTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #5
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: May 2008
Location: san jose
Posts: 10

Rep Power: 0 ERB82 will become famous soon enoughERB82 will become famous soon enoughERB82 will become famous soon enoughERB82 will become famous soon enoughERB82 will become famous soon enoughERB82 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (2)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Soldering your alarm install is the way to go. Using Ttaps(scotchlocks) is the lazy and dangerous way to do it. The Ttaps cut into the original wire and can't handle the current of remote starter connections. I've seen plenty of pictures of melted Ttaps and fire damage caused from them. There is a reason they are illegal in vehicles in Canada and against SOP at both Circuit City and Best Buy. Vestax just likes em cuz he is lazy lol.
ERB82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #6
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 929

Rep Power: 104 dogstar will become famous soon enoughdogstar will become famous soon enoughdogstar will become famous soon enoughdogstar will become famous soon enoughdogstar will become famous soon enoughdogstar will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (2)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuTT View Post
not sure about the states, but scothlocks are illegal in a vehicle in Canada, I assume for good reason.
Can you link to the legislation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity View Post
The marine amps like to drink a lot and fight over just about anything. Instead of a turn on thump, they scream Hooah!
dogstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #7
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Hispls's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 794

Rep Power: 88 Hispls will become famous soon enoughHispls will become famous soon enoughHispls will become famous soon enoughHispls will become famous soon enoughHispls will become famous soon enoughHispls will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (11)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Scotch-locks are really sketchy. I'll use T-taps for alarm/remote starts sometimes, but I normally try to solder.

If you know how to solder it can't be beat.
Hispls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008   #8
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
ChrisB's Avatar
 
Meh.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LFT
Age: 41
Posts: 3,658

Rep Power: 966 ChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (17)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

I solder and heat shrink for just about everything! I do use crimps too, depending on what I am connecting, but for my alarm, I used solder, heat shrink, and electrical tape.

Crimp connectors can have a bit of a problem over time in my high humidity area and they tend to corrode. Every now and again, the insulation separates from the barrel and it really sucks when that happens and it ruins something.

I think of soldering as insurance because the chances of me having a problem with solder is somewhere between slim and none!

2013 GTI Driver's Edition - Unitronic Stage 1+ ECU with Stage 2 DSG
ChrisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #9
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SOUTH OF BOSTON
Posts: 28

Rep Power: 74 audiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Scotchlocks (t-taps) are horrible, but where I used to sell audio in Florida the installers used small wire nuts! They fell off right away!
Solder/shrink tube connections (especially the marine brand: ANCOR, with heat activated epoxy inside) last for ever and they WON'T come apart!

I don't need to read legislation about t-taps because I will never use them on ANYTHING.
The people that do use them, I've been told, keep their use to circuits under 2 amps max.
audiobill5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #10
 
MuTT's Avatar
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 485

Rep Power: 97 MuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enoughMuTT will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (8)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar View Post
Can you link to the legislation?
actually I cannot, but a few years ago when I was designing and building school buses, we received paperwork from the MOT with wiring laws and such, it was in there, they had to fly me from Ontario to BC to do recall work on the scotchlocks.


JUSTONEMOREAMP installed my TechFlex for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad View Post
"your mother" in the butt of many many
MuTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #11
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 61

Rep Power: 75 redfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

I absolutely hate schotchloks/t-taps. I was doign some wiring in my car a couple years back and the kit came with them. I was like "well if they sell thousands of these, these t-taps should be fine." Oh how was I wrong. Biggest fucking headache I've ever had. I will never use them again.

And its good to hear they are illegal in Canada. They should be illegal in the states as well.
redfred18t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #12
DIYMA 500 Club
 
t3sn4f2's Avatar
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 38
Posts: 7,741

Rep Power: 182 t3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of light


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vestax View Post
In my experience, Scotchlok, t-taps, butt connectors fail on bigger awg wires... starting especially at 10awg due to the fact that most people don't use the right tools to crimp the connections. Like I've seen a couple of guys use those Klein strippers to crimp their 4 awg terminals? WTF?
I guess the same goes with soldering, if you don't have good soldering skills, does that mean soldering is better?

Connections are as good as the one who made them is what I say.
x2 on everything said
t3sn4f2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #13
DIYMA 500 Club
 
t3sn4f2's Avatar
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 38
Posts: 7,741

Rep Power: 182 t3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of lightt3sn4f2 is a glorious beacon of light


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06BLMUSTANGGT View Post
I solder and heat shrink for just about everything! I do use crimps too, depending on what I am connecting, but for my alarm, I used solder, heat shrink, and electrical tape.

Crimp connectors can have a bit of a problem over time in my high humidity area and they tend to corrode. Every now and again, the insulation separates from the barrel and it really sucks when that happens and it ruins something.

I think of soldering as insurance because the chances of me having a problem with solder is somewhere between slim and none!
Isn't the metal to metal connection in a crimp air tight and water tight? Much like water and air screw on fitting are that don't require gaskets?

Doesn't copper corrode and form a layer of protection over the copper underneath preventing any further corrosion? Much like bare copper pipes in your house don't corrode and leak once that inner layer builds up?

Last edited by t3sn4f2; 11-08-2008 at 10:21 AM..
t3sn4f2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #14
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 632

Rep Power: 99 BoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to allBoostedNihilist is a name known to all


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

A few things

First of all let's get it perfectly clear, scotchlocks are completely different from t-taps.. scotchlocks suck

Quote:
not sure about the states, but scothlocks are illegal in a vehicle in Canada, I assume for good reason.
Not true. Not true at all. Until you quote chapter and verse on this one I simply will not believe it.

Quote:
Soldering your alarm install is the way to go. Using Ttaps(scotchlocks) is the lazy and dangerous way to do it. The Ttaps cut into the original wire and can't handle the current of remote starter connections. I've seen plenty of pictures of melted Ttaps and fire damage caused from them. There is a reason they are illegal in vehicles in Canada and against SOP at both Circuit City and Best Buy. Vestax just likes em cuz he is lazy lol.
I agree that soldering the wires is the ultimate, however t-tapping is adequate and widely accepted in the indusrty.

From a OEM standpoint T-Taps have huge advantages. Removal of the system becomes safer and less obtrusive.

On modern vehicles the current capacity is pretty much a non issue. Most vehicles do not have any large gauge wires that you would need to tap into. Colum wires, door lock wires, door entry wires are typically 14 Ga and flow just enough current to trigger a transistor in a BCM type device.

Let's not use the SOP from CC and BB to decide what is right and what is wrong. I have fixed many a hack-job from those guys and trust me, soldering tends to be the least of their worries when it comes to fucked up jobs.

I have installed many thousands of alarms/remote starts and immobilizers over the years, the vast majority use t-taps and I have yet to have a single one fail at the connection point.
BoostedNihilist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #15
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
ChrisB's Avatar
 
Meh.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LFT
Age: 41
Posts: 3,658

Rep Power: 966 ChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (17)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
Isn't the metal to metal connection in a crimp air tight and water tight? Much like water and air screw on fitting are that don't require gaskets?

Doesn't copper corrode and form a layer of protection over the copper underneath preventing any further corrosion? Much like bare copper pipes in your house don't corrode and leak once that inner layer builds up?
Mine are water and air tight, for the most part! Anytime I crimp, I put a thin layer of Kopr-shield in the tips of the wires, crimp, then heatshrink and finalize the connection with electrical tape. I don't think I have ever had a crimp connection fail

When I was talking about corrosion, I was really referring to a marine environment because that is where I have seen the most failures regarding crimp connectors. Thank my grandfather and all my uncles for their screw-ups because I learned what NOT to do fixing their mistakes! I wanted to bitchslap my uncle for using crimp connectors to tap into his vehicle wiring when he connected his trailer harness. Never mind the fact that most of these connections went underwater every time he launched his boat. What a moron...

2013 GTI Driver's Edition - Unitronic Stage 1+ ECU with Stage 2 DSG
ChrisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008   #16
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
ChrisB's Avatar
 
Meh.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LFT
Age: 41
Posts: 3,658

Rep Power: 966 ChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond reputeChrisB has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (17)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedNihilist View Post
A few things

First of all let's get it perfectly clear, scotchlocks are completely different from t-taps.. scotchlocks suck



Not true. Not true at all. Until you quote chapter and verse on this one I simply will not believe it.



I agree that soldering the wires is the ultimate, however t-tapping is adequate and widely accepted in the indusrty.

From a OEM standpoint T-Taps have huge advantages. Removal of the system becomes safer and less obtrusive.

On modern vehicles the current capacity is pretty much a non issue. Most vehicles do not have any large gauge wires that you would need to tap into. Colum wires, door lock wires, door entry wires are typically 14 Ga and flow just enough current to trigger a transistor in a BCM type device.

Let's not use the SOP from CC and BB to decide what is right and what is wrong. I have fixed many a hack-job from those guys and trust me, soldering tends to be the least of their worries when it comes to fucked up jobs.

I have installed many thousands of alarms/remote starts and immobilizers over the years, the vast majority use t-taps and I have yet to have a single one fail at the connection point.
I solder mainly because I believe in overkill. I also solder because I enjoy spending as much time with this hobby as possible because this is my form of escapism from all the crap that life throws at you.

I am not against crimping or using scotchlock connectors by any means. A friend of mine needed a quick subwoofer install, and he showed up with scotchlock t-tap connectors to tap into his rear speaker wiring for the high level input on his self powered subwoofer. It has been two years and counting and everything still works!

2013 GTI Driver's Edition - Unitronic Stage 1+ ECU with Stage 2 DSG
ChrisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008   #17
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SOUTH OF BOSTON
Posts: 28

Rep Power: 74 audiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enoughaudiobill5 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

That's it!
If done perfectly almost every connector will do it's job and last a lifetime.

We over engineer every facet of the car install, use solder, epoxy filled shrink tube AND Supper 33+ tape just to savor the creative moment.
We experience new engineering feets and make 20 design changes: all in the name of DYI.

The fun of creating a monster audio experience and investing a few hundred hours in your favorite ride makes working every day for a living seem more worth it.

Happy Holidays to all!
audiobill5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008   #18
 
Sassmastersq's Avatar
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Age: 35
Posts: 286

Rep Power: 97 Sassmastersq will become famous soon enoughSassmastersq will become famous soon enoughSassmastersq will become famous soon enoughSassmastersq will become famous soon enoughSassmastersq will become famous soon enoughSassmastersq will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering

I will crimp when I have to, because I have the proper tools, and the experience to do it right. I will solder for anything that I need to last, and on anything that might be exterrior to the vehicle, usually I solder, the fill the entire solder joint area with RTV silicone, and then heat shrink each connection individually, re silicone the connections over the heat shrink, right up to and over the outer jacket of the wires, and heat shrink the whole bundle together.

Last trailer connection I did I soldered all of the connections, put heat shrink around the pins, and then filled the ehat shrink with silicone, spun it around to force the silicone into all of the gaps leaving it completely air tight, and then refilled it.
Sassmastersq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008   #19
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 61

Rep Power: 75 redfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enoughredfred18t will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Scotchlok Connectors Vs Soldering



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassmastersq View Post

Last trailer connection I did I soldered all of the connections, put heat shrink around the pins, and then filled the ehat shrink with silicone, spun it around to force the silicone into all of the gaps leaving it completely air tight, and then refilled it.
Oh man do I hate trailers. My dad has a construction company so he has a few trailers that are constantly needing wire repair.

I probably have to fix a broken wire on one of his older trailers probably once every two months. I'm getting to the point where I just want to cut all the wiring out, put new wiring in, and be done with it but he uses that trailer everyday. Maybe in the winter. But when I do that, I'm soldering everything and going to the next step with shrink tape and rtv sealant.
redfred18t is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In search of FEMALES - rca connectors that is... Ge0 Technical & Advanced Car Audio Discussion 7 03-20-2008 01:50 PM
ribbon cables and crimp connectors Whiterabbit How-To Articles Provided by our members 10 12-11-2006 04:41 PM
Tips for soldering multi strand wires? ATB Off Topic 16 09-20-2006 07:29 PM
Need help with esoteric audio rca connectors (lots of pics) ~Magick_Man~ Technical & Advanced Car Audio Discussion 8 09-01-2006 08:20 PM
loose RCA output connectors mikemareen Technical & Advanced Car Audio Discussion 1 07-31-2006 03:48 PM

» Amps
A/d/s/
Advent
Alphasonik
Alpine
American Bass
ARC Audio
Atomic
Audio Art
Audio Gods
Audiobahn
Audiocontrol
Audiopipe
Audison
Aura
Autotek
Avionixx
Bazooka
Beyma
Blaupunkt
Boss
Boston Acoustics
Bravox
Cadence
Cascade (CAE)
CDT Audio
Cerwin Vega
Clarion
Clif Designs
Concept
Coustic
Critical Mass
Crossfire
Crunch
DB Drive
DC Audio
DC Power
DEI
Denon
Diabolo
Diamond
Digital Designs
Directed
DLS
Dual
DYnamat
Dynaudio
Earthquake
Eclipse
Elemental Designs
ESX
Eton
Farenheit
Fi Car Audio
Focal
Fusion
Genesis
Ground Zero
Hafler
Helix
Hertz
Hifonics
Hushmat
Image Dynamics
Infinity
Interfire
JBL
Jensen
JL Audio
JVC
Kenwood
Kicker
Knu Konceptz
Kole Audio
Kove Audio
Lanzar
Lightning Audio
Linear Power
MA Audio
Magnat
Marantz
Massive Audio
MB Quart
McIntosh
Memphis
Metra
Milbert
MMATS
Mobile Authority
Morel
MTX
Nakamichi
Niche Audio
O2 Audio
Ohio Generator
Optima
Orion
Oxygen Audio
OZ Audio
PG Audio
Phase Linear
Phoenix Gold
Pioneer
Polk
Power Acoustik
Powerbass
Powermaster
Precision Power
Profile
Pyle
Pyramid
RadioShack
Rainbow
Rampage
RE AUdio
Rockford Fosgate
Scanspeak
Scosche
Seas
Sony
soundstream
Sparkomatic
SPL Dynamics
Stinger
Sundown Audio
Swiss Audio
Targa
TC Sounds
TREO Engineering
TRU
Tsunami
Ultimate
US Acoustics
US Amps
Velodyne
Vifa
Viper
Visonik
Xtant
Zapco
Zed Audio
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Ad Management by RedTyger

Meet Our Team | Forum | Privacy and Rules | Advertise | Archive | Search | Contact Us

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy