Help with 31-band EQ's

GregU · 07-02-2009

So I'm about to move onto the next step in my plans. So far I've got an Apline 9887, T/A'd Image CTX65cs' in the front off of an older Orion 375, stock rears(just using them as a rear fill with the X-over set to -15), one IDMAX 10 off of a JL 500/1v2. I'm about to dynamat the hell out of my car with 72ft2, since I can get it for almost nothing and seal my doors. I've been using a little of the parametric

EQ from the 9887 but I really want more and better sound

. My first instinct says to build kicks for some 6.5's but it would leave me little room for my clutch. Kicks are more of a last resort for me, although it would be best. Anyways, I want to get a nice 31-band EQ that doesn't require a laptop or PDA. I've been looking at Image Dynamics' 31-band and it looks nice as well as AudioControl. Any suggestions? Also, can I get one EQ to EQ the whole system or do I need one per channel

?? How does that work? I know of a couple of people local with RTA's so that's gonna come in handy.

rockinridgeline · 07-02-2009

having a separate eq on each channel

is handy. You'll find when you use the rta that the response measured in the driver's seat is going to be drastically different between L and R channel. Having an eq for each side gives you the ability to match L and R which will really help get a solid soundstage. I used analog Audio Control EQT's for years and loved them. Lot of great digital stuff out now, though.

smgreen20 · 07-02-2009

If you're using an outboard xover then you can get a 31 band EQ and put it in between the HU and the xover.

If you're using the HU for xover duties (As I do w/my CD8455) I would suggest the Audio Control DQS (which I use as well) which gives you 30 bands of EQ per output channel and 2 parametric EQ bands per channel.

I love mine.

TREETOP · 07-02-2009

Some EQs are mono and you'd need one per channel, but most are 2-channel or more so you'd just use one per stereo pair after your electronic crossover or one EQ prior to your crossover or amp.

Here's one that I have, it's a typical setup- left and right in one chassis. This one has 15 bands per channel:

TXwrxWagon · 07-03-2009

whoa! let's slow down...

1.) why hasn't anyone asked what kind of car? where are the CTX's mounted? where is the Tweeter that is T/A'ed? Are you running the CTX's with the ID passive crossovers?

2.) if you are running T/A'ed CTX65's, then how are you getting rear fill? You cannot realistically T/A a passive component set. with the 9887 in 3-way mode (high {tweeter}, mid {6.5 mid}, low {sub}) there are no outputs (rca level) to send to a rear fill set, except a midrange-passed set that is T/A'ed like the front.. If you have the internal amp turned on the rear-fill will be midrange ONLY. & will be T/A'ed the same as the REAR rca outputs..

3.) you need to back up & decide what is "lacking".. midbass? stage? imaging? ambiance? Sub output? Not loud enough?

4.) what amps are you running? any on-board crossovers you are adding to the mix? edit *I see an Orion 375 & a JL 500... internal crossovers or bass-boost?

5.) I really think you need to take a DEEP breath & figure out where you are going. EQ won't "fix" shitty speaker placement. Without knowing what kinds of CAR you have, where the speakers are mounted & more importantly HOW they are mounted make a HUGE difference

Not being an ass.. the owners manual is a seriously helpful thing... just slow down.. sounds like you are trying to skip steps to get good sounds..

Give us more detailed 411 so we can help

Rob

traceywatts · 07-03-2009

Rob,
as an answer to your questions:
1.) completely irrelevant except the q about passive xovers. the op posted a "complete" install with exception of soundproofing, t/a, and either relocating front stage or adding dedicated midbass. us knowing what kind of car he has will do little good unless we "happened" to have an identical install with identical components in an identical car.
2.)you "can" t/a a passive set, just not in respect to the other components in the passive set. im really not that familiar with the 9887, but it has a front/ rear/ sub mode which can t/a his rear fill and subs to match his passive front stage.
3.)yes. the op was vague.
4.)good
5.)wonderful.

To the op,
with eq, the more bands and features you have , the merrier. you may not "need" to use most of them for your particular install, but we currently have NO WAY of reilably predicting which ones you will need. the AC is a decent product, but they are falling behind the curve (no t/a). im not knocking them, i had the dqs and currently use the dqxs with no intentions to upgrade. both fit your requirements. no laptop or pda needed, one eq can eq entire system.

I800C0LLECT · 07-03-2009

9887 4.2ch mode

1) HP -- 20Hz thru 200Hz
2) HP -- 20Hz thru 200Hz
3) LP -- 20Hz thru 200Hz

In 2.2ch mode

1) Full range or HP -- 1kHz thru 20kHz
2) HP -- 20Hz thru 200Hz
LP -- 20Hz thru 200Hz
3) LP -- 20Hz thru 200Hz

The only way I can obtain "fill" and keep T/A is to create a band pass between ~250Hz and 3kHz with passive cross overs for the front speakers. But I'm using werewolf's suggestion for "fill". I still only ahve the H/U installed. If I have to move my speakers from stock I'm going active and the "fill" is going to be axed :/

From my reading, you can T/A a passive set so long as the two speakers are within 6" of each other.

GregU · 07-03-2009

whoa! let's slow down...

1.) why hasn't anyone asked what kind of car? where are the CTX's mounted? where is the Tweeter that is T/A'ed? Are you running the CTX's with the ID passive crossovers?Scion TC. Mounted in doors with the tweeter's about 3 inches on-axis from midrange. For now I'm using the passive x-overs.

2.) if you are running T/A'ed CTX65's, then how are you getting rear fill? You cannot realistically T/A a passive component set. with the 9887 in 3-way mode (high {tweeter}, mid {6.5 mid}, low {sub}) there are no outputs (rca level) to send to a rear fill set, except a midrange-passed set that is T/A'ed like the front.. If you have the internal amp turned on the rear-fill will be midrange ONLY. & will be T/A'ed the same as the REAR rca outputs..
I'm running in 4.2ch mode so I guess it's not a true T/A, since the tweets are on the same delay as the mid's. As soon as I get another amp for the tweets, I'll be running in 3-way mode.
3.) you need to back up & decide what is "lacking".. midbass? stage? imaging? ambiance? Sub output? Not loud enough? Midbass, staging, imaging, clarity, realism, and a little more volume.

4.) what amps are you running? any on-board crossovers you are adding to the mix? edit *I see an Orion 375 & a JL 500... internal crossovers or bass-boost?
I'm using only the x-over in the 9887 and the passives for the CTX's. Both amps are set on full-range with onboard EQ functions off. No processing being done with either amps.

5.) I really think you need to take a DEEP breath & figure out where you are going. EQ won't "fix" shitty speaker placement. Without knowing what kinds of CAR you have, where the speakers are mounted & more importantly HOW they are mounted make a HUGE differenceI made some very nice MDF rings and base that they sit into. I put a rabbet cut on the inside of the ring for the mid to flush and air tight. Then dynamated the ring. Made sense at the time.

Not being an ass.. the owners manual is a seriously helpful thing... just slow down.. sounds like you are trying to skip steps to get good sounds.. Well, I'll be the first to admit, I pissin' in the wind on what I should do next.

Give us more detailed 411 so we can help

Rob[/QUOTE]

GregU · 07-03-2009

After re-reading Rob's post I'm drawing this conclusion.

1. Seal doors (aluminum flashing and liquid nails).
2. dynamat all I can
3. Get another amp for the tweets
4. Ditch the passives
5. Run in 3 way and go active

Am I on the right track? I'm trying to avoid having to move my mids, but if it HAS to be done I will. If I'm missing the big picture then please point it out. I really need all the help I can get.

GregU · 07-04-2009

bump for a little help...

donkeypunch22 · 07-05-2009

If you get a powerful EQ that will have 31 bands per channel, I recommend you get one that is easy to adjust. The ease at which you can adjust what you need to is very important.

With that said, the RF360.2, the Zapco DSP6 (parametric not graphic here), the Bitone, the H701+controller (if you can find it) come to mind. I also think the AC stuff is falling behind.

Go active. Three way or two way up front, it's up to you. I say keep it simple and go two way with a sub. Ditch the rear fill (go with these only when you are doing some kind of ambient processing like dolby 5.1, just my 2 cents).

If you go with 31 band eq, and don't want to do the $100 RTA (search the site), you could go to Radio Shack and buy digital SPL meter, and get filtered pink noise at said EQ points, and do your objective measurment with said Radio Shack meter, and adjust that way.

Have fun.

GregU · 07-07-2009

Just a small update if anyone is interested.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post778204

roscoe · 07-20-2009

Not to get off track but do you know what is the crossover point for the CTX's on the passive and also if you went active what crossover point would you start with. I remember reading that the crossover point was 7k but that seems too steep so I was trying to get the real scoop.

GregU · 07-21-2009

I dont know for sure and it's really hard to tell. If I had to guess I'd say, mids are at 60-80hz and tweets are at 5K. The tweets are nothing special with the CTX's but at the same time they aren't bad either. After my kicks are finished I'm really considering the XS-65's.

goodstuff · 07-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregU

I dont know for sure and it's really hard to tell. If I had to guess I'd say, mids are at 60-80hz and tweets are at 5K. The tweets are nothing special with the CTX's but at the same time they aren't bad either. After my kicks are finished I'm really considering the XS-65's.

Do it.