active tuning question

nineball · 08-31-2009

i am taking my first leap into running active and have a question about setting things up. in the past i used 1000hz tone to set the gains for the passive comps but what should i use now that i have to tune tweets and mids separately?

TREETOP · 08-31-2009

nineball · 08-31-2009

no shit. i didn't ask how to tune i asked what frequencies to use for tweets and for mids.

TREETOP · 08-31-2009

Why are you "tuning" with tones instead of music

?

nineball · 08-31-2009

ok, maybe tuning was a bad choice in wording. i am referring to setting the gains on my amp

.

nineball · 08-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TREETOP

btw you really need to trim your earhair.

audiodepot101 · 08-31-2009

???????

**dannyboyy14** · 08-31-2009

just turn your cd player 3/4 of the way up turn the gain up on your mids until distortion

then turn it down a smidge and then turn the gain on your tweets up until the tweets sound

matched with your mids. at least thats how i have done it and it works fine

I800C0LLECT · 08-31-2009

I've heard of using pink noise as part of a final process when tuning EQ? -- but that's only if your EQ is L/R independent and you're adjusting image.

nineball · 08-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboyy14

just turn your cd player 3/4 of the way up turn the gain up on your mids until distortion then turn it down a smidge and then turn the gain on your tweets up until the tweets sound matched with your mids. at least thats how i have done it and it works fine

again, i am not asking how to set gains. i am asking what specific frequencies should be used when setting the gains. did a little searching and found one post mentioning 100 (sub), 1000 (mid), 4000 (tweet) so i think i will start with those but i am open to suggestions.

DoingItTheHardWay · 08-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineball

again, i am not asking how to set gains. i am asking what specific frequencies should be used when setting the gains. did a little searching and found one post mentioning 100 (sub), 1000 (mid), 4000 (tweet) so i think i will start with those but i am open to suggestions.

Use MUSIC to set the gains ...

Not all frequencies should equally loud to the ear at the same decibel level. How in the hell do you propose setting gains on amplifiers by using individual frequencies? They have to all be playing at the same time to be gained, unless you are using an O-scope ....

**dannyboyy14** · 08-31-2009

just play some music and set the gains you dont need specific frequencies. there is no rule or anything, and music is constantly variable. its not like if your gains are set a little low its going to throw things out of wack. when i set my gains i just set them til it sounded good. because your going to find out that when you try and set the gain on your tweet with a DMM its going to sound weird because most likely your tweet gain will be too high and over powering your mid. just set it with your ear.

nineball · 08-31-2009

who ever said anything about using a dmm?

**dannyboyy14** · 08-31-2009

well how else would you set gains using just frequencies? you cant tell by just listening to a 4khz tone.... just use music forget the friggen tones.

lechuck · 09-01-2009

using single tone is sick, you miss all the other frequencies, why on earth would you tune gain with those? You don't listen to music or want to make a comp boom box?

nineball · 09-01-2009

did i somehow post this on ca.com? with all these helpful replies from new members i am a bit confused.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...illoscope.html

digital · 09-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineball

i am taking my first leap into running active and have a question about setting things up. in the past i used 1000hz tone to set the gains for the passive comps but what should i use now that i have to tune tweets and mids separately?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineball

ok, maybe tuning was a bad choice in wording. i am referring to setting the gains on my amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineball

again, i am not asking how to set gains. i am asking what specific frequencies should be used when setting the gains. did a little searching and found one post mentioning 100 (sub), 1000 (mid), 4000 (tweet) so i think i will start with those but i am open to suggestions.

You need to be more clear when asking questions

For output level matching, sine sweep from 20Hz to 20kHz would be good to start testing with. You want the loudness to be same above 300Hz, as for below 300Hz, it's usually personal... depends on your bass preference.

nineball · 09-01-2009

thanks.

digital · 09-01-2009

You are welcome.

The problem with this approach is that your ears do not hear loudness same for different frequencies. That's why people usually use specialized equipment to measure the response. You can get it cheap, using software and a laptop with proper microphone.

The tricky part is to get the crossover points and slopes right, so when the speakers blend, they do it properly (in phase, resulting output is flat).

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tml#post538016

mda185 · 09-01-2009

nineball, there is nothing wrong with your question. There are two steps to gain setting.

The test tones at 100, 1000, and 4000 Hz are fine for setting gain from your head unit and crossover to the amplifiers if you follow suggestions in the post for setting gains without oscope. The idea is that you do this with the low level signal playing through a small amplified speaker like the Radio Shack model mentioned. You are supposed to listen carefully to the speaker to detect when the signal starts to clip. This will be indicated when the single tone starts to sound like multiple tones. Back off slightly from this gain setting and that is the maximum signal you can run into your amps.

The next step is setting your amplifier input gains to yield the right sound level for the sub, mids, and tweeters at your listening position. That is where your ears and music or pink noise are most helpful. I still prefer to do it with a RTA and calibrated microphone but not everyone wants to make that investment. Even a cheap Radio Shack sound level meter can be helpful with pink noise as the source.

As we age, not all of us are blessed with perfect 20-20K hearing and I prefer to tune with measuring equipment to help my ears. I use a software package called Praxis. It is expensive for full capability but there is a free demo version that can be downloaded from libinst.com that has a fully functional spectrum analyzer. There are inexpensive ways to get a calibrated microphone if you are willing to build the preamp yourself. Do a google search on DIY microphone preamps and I think you will be surprised what you find. There is a gentleman named Kim Girardin that sells affordable calibrated microphone capsules and complete calibrated microphones also. That is what I use with Praxis.

GregU · 09-01-2009

Wow...... I'm suprised at these responses......

50hz test tone for sub
1000Hz for mids
10Khz for the tweets

There are a bunch of different ways to set gains. You are like me and use test tones, this way is fine. Of course I'm sure you already know that everything must be set to flat.

To Dannyboy - You will almost NEVER detect clipping in mids and highs by listening to music. Distortion yes but the point of starting to clip no. Using a test tone, clipping is VERY noticable, even without an oscope.

GregU · 09-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineball

did i somehow post this on ca.com? with all these helpful replies from new members i am a bit confused.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...illoscope.html

I think a lot of ca.com's members are floating over at an alarming rate.

nineball · 09-04-2009

thanks mda and greg. i could not find a 10k tone so i used a 1k to set the gain for the mids and then guesstimated about 1/3 of that for the tweets (150 per channel amp).

now i know things are not even close to being similar but this set ran active blows away the same set i have running passive in my dd. the passive set is in an 05 neon (dynamat xtreme in doors) getting about 130rms. the active set is in a porsche 911 targa (damp pro and overkill) with 150/50 and crossed at 3.2 for tweets and 63/3.2 for the mids. they really can produce some low end frequencies! the passive set is so lacking i was really let down with the sound but now my faith is restored. i have not had a chance to put the top on/windows up yet but i know i will just be more impressed when i do. once i build and install the pair of e8 subs i will raise up the mids to 80 and start playing with it all over again.

i will never again be passive...

DanMan · 09-05-2009

This may be a bit out of context. My view on the different methods of gain setting relates to psychoacoustics.

Wealthy audiophiles will spend thousands of dollars on speaker wire and signal cable. Whether or not the improvements exist is one thing. But if they BELIEVE that it sounds better, it is worth it to THEM.

If you believe using tones and a dmm will make things better, it will.

Audio is to subjective to be objective. For the most part.

mda185 · 09-05-2009

DanMan, there is nothing subjective about setting up your gains so that you run the highest voltage signal possible back to the amplifier without pushing the head unit into clipping. This is also one of the fundamental principles employed by the people who create the music we listen to. Does that mean when an artist creates music that is beautifully recorded, that is sounds good simply because the artist and engineers believed the use of test tones and measuring equipment would make it sound better?

When it comes to loudspeaker design and signal processing, I can accept that there is a lot subjective judgement involved. I have a hard time with your point when it is applied to setting system gains up properly. A clean signal is a clean signal from any point of view.