well done shaeenk that's great result .. ps what ever happened to the bit 1 you bought from me ?
Hey Yuri
Yes it was an awesome result. Old skool rules man.
The bit1 is packed away awaiting my other car to be completed. but so so so tempted to sell it and get another MS8. Saves me the hassles of trying to get everything perfect.
Bass upfront, TA done right , autotune a brezze and does not take 300hours to configure.
A drivers seat calibration will likely have more volume coming from the right speakers because they are further away, but it should sound BALANCED when you are listening from the drivers seat.
If you calibrate more than one seating position, it will not effect the calibration for the driver seat from my experience.
I guess I wasn't clear with my question. The sound is not balanced or centered, but strong on the right side. Just for shits and grins I sat on the passenger side today and it sounded really good and even, just like it should. I thought I could hear a little of the left rear side a little strong but I didn't listen very long. I did a little lean to the right on my last calibration but it's still strong on the right.
If I use logic 7 it seems to smooth it out a bit. I'm not running a center.
I guess I wasn't clear with my question. The sound is not balanced or centered, but strong on the right side. Just for shits and grins I sat on the passenger side today and it sounded really good and even, just like it should. I thought I could hear a little of the left rear side a little strong but I didn't listen very long. I did a little lean to the right on my last calibration but it's still strong on the right.
If I use logic 7 it seems to smooth it out a bit. I'm not running a center.
Did you wear the headphones backward during calibration? I know... stupid joke
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
No, anything is possible though. I haven't done many calibrations, might be five, every one has been strong on the right side. I might try them backwards and see what happens or calibrate both front seats and run with the passenger side for a while.
First off, I know I am new to this forum but I have read this thread from start to finish (probably twice now) and have always had the same issue most of us with aftermarket gear has(sub is stupid loud and no up front midbass).
Im finally getting to a point where Im pretty happy with my results. Here's what Ive gone through:
Tried the kaigoss method and while this did solve the bass issue somewhat I don't like the limitation on what my amps let me do crossover wise so I decided to keep trying with the sub on its own channel as its intended to be.
I like to level match my speakers during the sound output test and around -35DB seems to work well and give me around a 70DB level on all speakers however level matching the sub is almost impossible since the sound output test for the sub seems to always be very quiet, especially compared to the sound the test tone sweeps make through the sub (might be that the frequency of the sound output test is well outside the range of what the sub plays.)
After doing level matching I turn the gain on my subs amp way up and during the sweeps the sub sweep is stupid loud and you definitely feel and here it ALOT. (I know that andy has said both the sub should barely be heard and NOT felt but that just plain doesnt work)He also has said if you get too much sub that turning the gain UP is the right thing to do so I follow that advise.
Results: I still end up having to turn the gain on the sub down after the tune but not nearly as much and now at least when I turn the bass settings up (sub, EQ and tone control) I get up front bass.
Heres my setup for reference:
2011 VW Golf hatchback 4 door
Front midbass - HAT L6 in door running off PPI Phanton 900.4 bridged (~450Watts RMS x 2 4 Ohms)
Front tweeters - HAT L1Pros running off JL Audio XD400/4 (using front 2 channels ~75Watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms)
Rear fill - HAT Imagine 6-1 components running off the same JL Audio XD400/4 (using rear 2 channels ~75Watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms)
SUB - JL Audio 10W3V3-4 running off JL Audio 500/1 amp (500Watts RMS @ 4 ohms)
Box - Sealed 1.25 Cu/ft box in trunk giving a QTS of just under .7
I set the sub/front midbass crossover at 65Hz @ 24DB
Front High crossover set to 2200Hz @ 12DB
Rear at 80HZ @ 24DB
I hope this helps all those with the same type of setup/issue.
No, anything is possible though. I haven't done many calibrations, might be five, every one has been strong on the right side. I might try them backwards and see what happens or calibrate both front seats and run with the passenger side for a while.
Try going through setup again and when you get to the output diagnostics page with the pink noise checks (before acoustic measurements), make sure that the pink noise from the right side is the same volume as the left side. Maybe sit in the center of the back seat with a meter and measure the volume directly between the front seats or just listen with your head between the seats.
If you are hearing the same volume bias in the pink noise test something is probably wrong with your setup.
First off, I know I am new to this forum but I have read this thread from start to finish (probably twice now) and have always had the same issue most of us with aftermarket gear has(sub is stupid loud and no up front midbass).
Im finally getting to a point where Im pretty happy with my results. Here's what Ive gone through:
Tried the kaigoss method and while this did solve the bass issue somewhat I don't like the limitation on what my amps let me do crossover wise so I decided to keep trying with the sub on its own channel as its intended to be.
I like to level match my speakers during the sound output test and around -35DB seems to work well and give me around a 70DB level on all speakers however level matching the sub is almost impossible since the sound output test for the sub seems to always be very quiet, especially compared to the sound the test tone sweeps make through the sub (might be that the frequency of the sound output test is well outside the range of what the sub plays.)
After doing level matching I turn the gain on my subs amp way up and during the sweeps the sub sweep is stupid loud and you definitely feel and here it ALOT. (I know that andy has said both the sub should barely be heard and NOT felt but that just plain doesnt work)He also has said if you get too much sub that turning the gain UP is the right thing to do so I follow that advise.
Results: I still end up having to turn the gain on the sub down after the tune but not nearly as much and now at least when I turn the bass settings up (sub, EQ and tone control) I get up front bass.
Heres my setup for reference:
2011 VW Golf hatchback 4 door
Front midbass - HAT L6 in door running off PPI Phanton 900.4 bridged (~450Watts RMS x 2 4 Ohms)
Front tweeters - HAT L1Pros running off JL Audio XD400/4 (using front 2 channels ~75Watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms)
Rear fill - HAT Imagine 6-1 components running off the same JL Audio XD400/4 (using rear 2 channels ~75Watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms)
SUB - JL Audio 10W3V3-4 running off JL Audio 500/1 amp (500Watts RMS @ 4 ohms)
Box - Sealed 1.25 Cu/ft box in trunk giving a QTS of just under .7
I set the sub/front midbass crossover at 65Hz @ 24DB
Front High crossover set to 2200Hz @ 12DB
Rear at 80HZ @ 24DB
I hope this helps all those with the same type of setup/issue.
i had an ms-8 for awhile, and i learned a trick. if you turn your gains up; higher than normal, while your calabrating and turn them to normal after or below normal, you'll have a mroe equaled out low end.
ZED audio, Hybrid Audio, FI audio, M-Audio, Custom carputer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYMA
PS. Tell your boss to stop sending me pictures of his cock.
Try going through setup again and when you get to the output diagnostics page with the pink noise checks (before acoustic measurements), make sure that the pink noise from the right side is the same volume as the left side. Maybe sit in the center of the back seat with a meter and measure the volume directly between the front seats or just listen with your head between the seats.
If you are hearing the same volume bias in the pink noise test something is probably wrong with your setup.
I'll try that. I did have a little wiring problem on the right side early on but thought I had fixed it, or was it the left side? Can't remember! Seriously it does sound pretty good, but with music it's hard to be completely satisfied.
Has anyone sacked up and changed the color of their MS-8?
I know it will probably void the warranty but I am really considering making it black. Does the silver cover come off easily? I haven't even looked at it yet just checking to see if anyone has done it.
I'm thinking about picking up one of these for my 09 Acura TSX (non-tech package). The car has 2 tweeters, 2 front door speakers, 2 rear deck speakers and the stock subwoofer. I also want to pick up 2 more speakers for my rear doors and a centre channel (the car came with empty holes for the speakers because I don't have the tech package). Because this would bring me up to 10 speakers requiring inputs, would it make sense to replace the front tweeter and door speakers with components that would just require one input?
Speaking from experience, if you get an MS-8 ditch the passive components altogether. You will want each speaker to have its own channel on the MS-8 for best results. From your email you seem to want a total of 9 channels meaning you'll be doubling up a set of speakers on an MS-8 channel.
I advise you go with the stock system and not add anything more, including no center channel. It will make the install much easier, not having to run new amplifiers for the i.m.o. needless rear door speakers. You can always add the center channel later.
The MS-8 will do an awesome job of making a center stage anyway.
Speaking from experience, if you get an MS-8 ditch the passive components altogether. You will want each speaker to have its own channel on the MS-8 for best results. From your email you seem to want a total of 9 channels meaning you'll be doubling up a set of speakers on an MS-8 channel.
I advise you go with the stock system and not add anything more, including no center channel. It will make the install much easier, not having to run new amplifiers for the i.m.o. needless rear door speakers. You can always add the center channel later.
The MS-8 will do an awesome job of making a center stage anyway.
Actually a lot of DIYers have suggested to include a center channel and if at all possible rears too.
If the mid is close enough to the tweeter, passive works fine...
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Actually a lot of DIYers have suggested to include a center channel and if at all possible rears too.
If the mid is close enough to the tweeter, passive works fine...
Kelvin
Here is a picture of the door with the two speakers visible:
I'm not sure if the speakers are close enough together for passives.
I guess another possibility if I really wanted the rear doors could be to hook the left rear door and left deck speaker to the same output and the two right backs to the same output. The built in amp probably couldn't power them so I guess then I would need a separate amp.
Also, does anyone have speaker recommendations that run well off the built in amp? I'm guessing they would have to have higher sensitivity to work well.
Here is a picture of the door with the two speakers visible:
I'm not sure if the speakers are close enough together for passives.
I guess another possibility if I really wanted the rear doors could be to hook the left rear door and left deck speaker to the same output and the two right backs to the same output. The built in amp probably couldn't power them so I guess then I would need a separate amp.
Also, does anyone have speaker recommendations that run well off the built in amp? I'm guessing they would have to have higher sensitivity to work well.
Question about passives, you can try but I think the tweeter and the midrange are too far apart...
One thing you can do is connect the sides and rears together (SL+RL & SR+RR) powered by the internal MS-8 amp. <-- would free up enough channel to go active TW and MID + Center + Sides-Rears + Subwoofer.
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Here is a picture of the door with the two speakers visible:
I'm not sure if the speakers are close enough together for passives.
I guess another possibility if I really wanted the rear doors could be to hook the left rear door and left deck speaker to the same output and the two right backs to the same output. The built in amp probably couldn't power them so I guess then I would need a separate amp.
Also, does anyone have speaker recommendations that run well off the built in amp? I'm guessing they would have to have higher sensitivity to work well.
Yup, use two channels for each of the doors. Connect the rear doors and the rear deck speakers in parallel. I've run everything from factory VW speakers to Boston Pros on the MS-8's amplifier and they all sound fine. It's 20 watts (@4 ohms) and 30 watts at 2. The difference between that and a 60 x 4 amplifier is 3dB.
Question about going active. I’m currently using the passives that came with my comps which are going to the input of the MS8 (using stock HU). I want to go active so I plan to remove the passive xovers (in doors) and run new wires from the tweets to the amp.
How do you avoid frying things at this point? Since my calibration is set for my previous passive config or if for whatever reason some pop occurs, radio gets bumped on etc.. Or is it as simple as re-wire things up (per above) and just re-run calibration and select 2-way, set hi/mid/low slopes etc..?
I know its suggested to put a cap before the tweet but that notwithstanding just wanting to ask before I proceed.
I just want to share what i recently founded out about what can caused missing midbass and overpowering subbass problem.
When calibrating the room acoustics make sure the head unit volume is way down. Some of my friends wishes to lock in the head unit volume at ms8 desired level, and instead of turning down the head unit's volume they just switched to AUX or immediately proceed with the auto tuning (after removing calibration cd when not using rca). What happened was, even though ms8 sends its own signals, depending on the head unit, leaving the head unit volume up high may causes slight buzzez much like white noise coming out from the speaker. This noise can drown the midbass sweep noise during auto tune and you can only hear chirping noise. What you want to hear is a whooping noise aswell, together with the chirping noise.
And if ms8 cannot picked up the whooping sweep noise from the midbass, it seems to choose the subwoofer to do the job. This causes overly loud Subbass. As i recalled ms8 linked midbass and subbass filter as one, at least thats the way i understood it. If you did lower the head unit volume down as per ms8 instructions, but still no whooping midbass noise then you must check your installation. Incorrect speaker polarity wiring, undersize power/ground, improper speaker locations etc, can causes weak midbass resulting a very low whooping midbass noise during auto calibration.
Active setup is obviously easier as you can just adjust from the gain level. But then is better to check everything is installed and operated as according to the manual of your car audio equipment. That includes ms8.
You should also make sure the sub gain stays minimum, meaning you can only slightly hear it and not feel it during your autotune. In my experience, this always produced stellar subbass.
I hope this can help those who has missing midbass and overpowering subbass issue. And if it has already being mentioned before, well, i apologize.
It's not the brand, it's the installation and tuning that matters most.
I just want to share what i recently founded out about what can caused missing midbass and overpowering subbass problem.
When calibrating the room acoustics make sure the head unit volume is way down. Some of my friends wishes to lock in the head unit volume at ms8 desired level, and instead of turning down the head unit's volume they just switched to AUX or immediately proceed with the auto tuning (after removing calibration cd when not using rca). What happened was, even though ms8 sends its own signals, depending on the head unit, leaving the head unit volume up high may causes slight buzzez much like white noise coming out from the speaker. This noise can drown the midbass sweep noise during auto tune and you can only hear chirping noise. What you want to hear is a whooping noise aswell, together with the chirping noise.
And if ms8 cannot picked up the whooping sweep noise from the midbass, it seems to choose the subwoofer to do the job. This causes overly loud Subbass. As i recalled ms8 linked midbass and subbass filter as one, at least thats the way i understood it. If you did lower the head unit volume down as per ms8 instructions, but still no whooping midbass noise then you must check your installation. Incorrect speaker polarity wiring, undersize power/ground, improper speaker locations etc, can causes weak midbass resulting a very low whooping midbass noise during auto calibration.
Active setup is obviously easier as you can just adjust from the gain level. But then is better to check everything is installed and operated as according to the manual of your car audio equipment. That includes ms8.
You should also make sure the sub gain stays minimum, meaning you can only slightly hear it and not feel it during your autotune. In my experience, this always produced stellar subbass.
I hope this can help those who has missing midbass and overpowering subbass issue. And if it has already being mentioned before, well, i apologize.
this is good advice
I noticed that for me if I left the subamp and front midbass woffers amps to full range with all amp crossovers defeated it helped a lot. During sweeps you could hear the "whooping noise" (especially out of the sub). The results were much better midbass and a much less overpowering sub. After the tune I then use the crossover on my subs amp to cut it off where I set the midbass to come in and use a 12DB cascaded filter which effectivly cuts off the sub by 36DB/Octive. This has made the sub bass integrate much better since it is really only playing sub 60hz by 36db/octive and the midbass is playing 60hz and up at 24db/octive using the active ms8 filter.
Yes you must always leave the amplifier and head unit running full range, and let MS8 do the crossover. Afterwards you can tweak the amplifier if you wish. Some amplifier, like my DLS A5 has got no fullrange mode on its subwoofer section, so its always on low-pass filter. To overcome this, set the low-pass at the highest range (usually is always higher than 80hz anyway).
Awhile ago on my current car, I faced amazingly loud subbass problem, but on my previous car that issue never happened so I knew there was something wrong with my install on the current car.
Truth is, at least in my experience, it was never MS8 problems. The key is to keep everything as simple as possible. I did two MS8 installs where it uses standard speakers on stock locations, they're very simple; midbass on doors, tweeter on sail panel, coaxials on rear door and/or parcel shelf. It always works.
So one day I isolated the problem by autotuning from the rear seat as if that's the driver seat, and just use my rear door coaxials as front, and parcel shelf coaxials speakers as side plus subwoofer right behind me (it's Nissan Xtrail SUV).
The awesome sound returned. It was so awesome, my friend thought I have some expensive speakers but in reality it was just JBL GT5 6.5" coaxials running the whole show. My friend even asked if the subwoofer, front door speakers and center speaker are on, because he cannot tell there's a subwoofer right behind him and the soundstage is so far forward and high above the dash.
So, try to to keep everything as simple as possible, and you'll be rewarded. Besides, the simpler the better anyway.
It's not the brand, it's the installation and tuning that matters most.
Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!
I know... stupid joke 
this is good advice
Linear Mode
