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Old 08-22-2010   #1
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Default Hertz Tweeters

After getting stuck with a couple HSK165 kits that I couldn't sell, I have decided to use them.....for the most part.

Here is where I am at now:



The 2006-2008 HT25 tweeters are a bit harsh and before I make them a permanent home in a custom pod/panel, I would rather look at replacing them.

Here are my choices:

- Hertz Space 1 (similar to ML28 but affordable, still chamber tuneable, friendly, black/sexy. #1 choice)

- 2005 Hertz HT20R (Mylar membrane ribbon SuperTweeter, 10k @ 18db/oct, 100w - possible 'hole' in system response)
http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_ht20r.pdf

- 2010 version Hertz HT20, HT25, HT28 (new version vs my 2006 model HT25 - ALTHOUGH UGLY, LAST CHOICE)


Running the HD500 Mid, what would you guys do, those who have a little Hertz experience.....?

Thanks,
Allan

Last edited by Allan74; 08-22-2010 at 09:56 PM..
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Old 08-22-2010   #2
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

I should also add, for those wondering how I came up with the oddball Crossover points.....

The entire front stage is based around the the HD500 Mids. Everything else just has to fall into place and learn to 'play nice'....lol

I realize that this will never be an MLK3 Setup, but I sure can try with what I have......
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Old 08-22-2010   #3
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

the space1/ml28 tweeter would be my pick of the bunch....imo, one of the best sounding out there.

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Old 08-22-2010   #4
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitaF View Post
the space1/ml28 tweeter would be my pick of the bunch....imo, one of the best sounding out there.
Mine too oddly enough. I am just wondering if looking to a 28mm tweeter is a bit retarded considering my upper X-over point ? Counter-productive ? or could it be considered, just, a SAFE bet guarunteed to work.

That is what lead me to look at perhaps a 20mm, in either the 2005 HT20R or the 2010 HT20.

Another point to consider, I am not sure if my Obsessive-Compulsive-Dissorder will allow me to have a Mid and Tweeter the same size....lol (just kidding)...

Last edited by Allan74; 08-22-2010 at 09:56 PM..
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Old 08-22-2010   #5
 
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Sort of off the subject but if you don't mind sharing. Do you know the msrp of all your choices ? Including the ml28

Thanks
Camo
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Old 08-22-2010   #6
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate4x4_camo View Post
Sort of off the subject but if you don't mind sharing. Do you know the msrp of all your choices ? Including the ml28

Thanks
Camo
Not really MSRP...but availability and Ebay Italy pricing.

I popped my Ebay-Italy cherry recently with a purchase of my HD500 Mids and have no problems going back for anything else I need now that is harder to find over here, as local Hertz Italian dealers post there.

Everything I am looking at is more or less $200 USD or less, shipped.
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Old 08-22-2010   #7
 
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

I have the Hertz Space 6L system in my kicks and they do pretty well using the large chambers...
Been running them for a year now with no issues.
I like the ML28 it's definitely one of the better car audio brand tweeters I've owned over the last 20 years...
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Old 08-23-2010   #8
 
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan74 View Post
Not really MSRP...but availability and Ebay Italy pricing.

I popped my Ebay-Italy cherry recently with a purchase of my HD500 Mids and have no problems going back for anything else I need now that is harder to find over here, as local Hertz Italian dealers post there.

Everything I am looking at is more or less $200 USD or less, shipped.
Do you speak italian?
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Old 08-23-2010   #9
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbabeef View Post
Do you speak italian?
NOPE. Not a single word.

Thankfully, being Canadian and having French drilled into our heads in our educational system, now allows me to look at Italian as well as Spanish and atleast have a rough idea of what is trying to be communicated.
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Old 08-23-2010   #10
 
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

I was trying to find out how much shipping was from ebay italy.
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Old 08-23-2010   #11
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

The Space 1 and ML28 are the same exact tweeter and one of my favorites. Can't go wrong with them.

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Old 08-23-2010   #12
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Case Closed.....

ML28's found and purchased.
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Old 08-24-2010   #13
 
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Nice diagram... if you don't mind me asking, what did you use to create it? I heard google sketch is pretty sweet but I've never tried it.
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Old 08-24-2010   #14
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by emak212 View Post
Nice diagram... if you don't mind me asking, what did you use to create it? I heard google sketch is pretty sweet but I've never tried it.
Simple screenshot of a Hertz PDF file, then cut/edited in Photoshop.
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Old 08-24-2010   #15
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Allan74..

Good choice on the 28's I run them and the ONLY thing I would upgrade to is a ML280S (down the road) otherwise they are perfect..
I have an all Hertz setup and I am never loooking back..
It looks like you have the 3.20W passive xover PDF..
So you are going to go with (2) HV165s in the doors?
The HD500 is a great mid, I played around with one before going the HL70 route..
What I would try if I were you is dropping the ML28 to the tune of 2800Hz and run the HD500 from about 550 or so to 2850
And if you can, put some more power behind the ML28, it is RATED at 180w

Goo dluck on the Hertz setup, you will be very pleased..



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Old 08-24-2010   #16
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderplains View Post
Good choice on the 28's I run them and the ONLY thing I would upgrade to is a ML280S (down the road) otherwise they are perfect....
Next setup for me will be something using ML500R's and ML1600's......but atleast still Hertz all the way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderplains View Post
It looks like you have the 3.20W passive xover PDF....
It's a Photoshop copy/paste combo of a few PDF's, as it was originally saddled with the HL70 Mid and a single HV165.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderplains View Post
So you are going to go with (2) HV165s in the doors?..
I am actually still on the fence, in regards to my FINAL Midbass setup and am actually considering running a single HV200/door rather than the dual HV165's.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-vs-ml165.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderplains View Post
The HD500 is a great mid, I played around with one before going the HL70 route..
What I would try if I were you is dropping the ML28 to the tune of 2800Hz and run the HD500 from about 550 or so to 2850
And if you can, put some more power behind the ML28, it is RATED at 180w..
The main reason I wanted to go a bit higher up for a x-over point, was to let the Mids shine, but this is why I post here.......I LOVE HEARING PERSONAL EXPERIENCES such as yours. This helps IMMENSLY.

I am considering ditching the SRx2 65x2 and running the Bridged SRx4 170x2 to the HD500's and ML28's using either a Hertz Space passive x-over (that have the simple time delay circuit) or a Mille MLCX-20 passive x-over, with a similar x-over point to what you suggested above, since the 2 will share a common EQ channel on my AudioControl DQS anyways, so why not an amplifier channel(s) as well........although I may try to find a matching old-school-blue SRx amplifier to add to the system, but I am trying to keep current draw down as low as possible.

Thank you very much for the comments.
Please feel free to keep them coming.

I want this system to be PERFECT before it becomes......Permanent

Cheers,
Allan
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Old 08-24-2010   #17
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Allan,

IF you go the Audiocontrol route (Which is where I was before the P99) Go DQS, you have everything you need right there..

I run the ML28, HL70 and ML165 w/ (2) ML3000s the front end is running about 178w per speaker and the MLs around 1010w each. I can get this up to the point where I could not hear you talk 1 foot in front of me, yelling maybe.. CLEAR as day, no distortion, noise nothing.. and it can keep going.. You should hear the subs running over 2000w of power..
all class D.. I tried out the ML500.. Nope, not happening.. You have to aim that just right.. drop Ibanzil a note, he ran a MLK3 setup in comps..
Hold your breath.. grapevine has it that a Mille MID is on it's way out this fall..
That's when the HL70 comes out and the new goes in.. I figure when I get the extra $$, I'll upgrade the 165 to 1600's, but otherwise the setup rocks..
You really will not need 2 mid-bass, the heartz can take a boat load of power and the output to match..



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Old 08-24-2010   #18
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

also, after hearing the new 165XLs, they are real close to the ML165s, but brighter..
All up to you though..



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Old 08-24-2010   #19
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

This is all my equipment that is ready to go.....still showing the dual midbass though, which is the last thing to change hopefully.

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Old 08-24-2010   #20
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Allen..

Good setup.. You have a lot going on their, can I make a suggestion?

The setup you have minus the audison amps, is almost a mirror image of what I
had pre P99.. I did WAY WAY too much talking to AC directly and having
many discussions with my local dealer, and based on what we came up with,
This is what I suggest.

Use the X890 HU and X the front spks and the sub there..
Get rid of all the AC stuff (sell, it will) except the DDS, get a DQX
run the front off the DQX, it has everything you need to make it shine..
Run the sub directly to the sub amp. You think you need the epicenter?
Makes the system, ALOT simpler.. Right now as far as trouble shooting goes,
it might be a pain in the A$$ if you start running into feedback or GLs.. Lots of RCAs and power connections..

I feel it would make your life ALOT easier AND you can play with the Xovers to tune to your liking (instead of modules in the XS series)
I am thinking you might end up with some extra $$ by selling off the AC stuff as the DQX is not that $$..
I can not speak to the epicenter, but I don't know of many people running one on here..

Your amps are great.. Audison is awesome, even the SRx series..
And the spks.. well.. what can I say.. Hertz.

Seriously though, simplify it man.. It will sound better, you will have more flexibility and less to work thru if you have issues.. Plus I saved you about 25 hours of phones calls by going that direction



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Old 08-24-2010   #21
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Now that I am thinking about it.. Run one set of HV165s and the SRX2s at 200x2 at 4ohm.. You want clean up front.. I think it would matter a little less with the sub, but I would stick to 4ohm or even 8ohm up front..

Like I mentioned earlier, I am running 172w from a Leviathan to my ML165s and when i have it loud, you can't even think, never mind hear.. and that's only with one set

Soo..

X890
SUB out to SRx2S
FRONT out to DQX to SRx2, SRx4 & SRx2S

Cross Front / Sub at HU (if possible, it not then a DQXS is in play)

Use the DQX for the front end, VERY flexible and one point of tuning, run amps all flat.

Clean simple.. Not sure on the Epicenter though, you will have to ask around on that.. I did not need it..

I was crossing my DNX9140 at 12db/80 (was also playing with 12/63 as well, went with 80) front to sub and using the subsonic on the amp set at about 27Hz

33db is quite steep.. Where did you get your slopes and x-over points?

Another thought, why the capacitor in between the mid-basses (if you run 2) just run them in series to get you 2ohm load,
but I jump back to my earlier, run 4ohm single pumping 200w per channel into 1.



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Old 08-24-2010   #22
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

If I was in CT, I would have let you hear the setup I had with the DQX.. WOuld have sold you right there..

You know, you COULD sell ALL the AC stuff and the extra spks you have and get a BitOne. Problem solved.

But I like AC stuff.. American made goodness..



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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Alan, I love your enthusiasm, but it looks like you've gone a little overboard with the AC processors. I don't know what all 4 of those pieces would cost together, but using a Bit1 instead of 4 independent processors seems like an easier route to me. It'll do everything you need it to and more, but in a single chassis. Plus it cuts the number of RCA connectors from 11 to 5. Even if you're using cheap RCA's that represents a significant savings. And I haven't even begun to describe what a nightmare gain setting can be with that many processors in line. Like I said, love your enthusiasm, but many times in mobile audio less is more. Good luck.
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Old 08-24-2010   #24
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx1136 View Post
Alan, I love your enthusiasm, but it looks like you've gone a little overboard with the AC processors. I don't know what all 4 of those pieces would cost together, but using a Bit1 instead of 4 independent processors seems like an easier route to me. It'll do everything you need it to and more, but in a single chassis. Plus it cuts the number of RCA connectors from 11 to 5. Even if you're using cheap RCA's that represents a significant savings. And I haven't even begun to describe what a nightmare gain setting can be with that many processors in line. Like I said, love your enthusiasm, but many times in mobile audio less is more. Good luck.

Gain settings.. Good point.. Damn.. and right on with less is more.



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Old 08-25-2010   #25
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Default Re: Hertz Tweeters

Some of the AC stuff was leftovers that are being re-used thankfully, although the DQS/DDC are new additions. I also own a mixed module kit from the old days all @ 18db/oct....lol

I decided against a BitOne and/or MS-8 because they would have me forced to run atleast 1 set of passive x-overs to achive my goal and I wanted a true 3-way active setup up front. I also didn't really care about any specific processing, other than EQ truthfully.

This is more or less a throwback to the old days - I see it as a simple system, although you guys may be right.....it's a bit over complicated in places.

I just wanted the utmost in CONTROL.....especially from the EQ, being split to service 3 seperate channel sets, each active without disturbing the others (sub, tweeter/mid and Midbass seperately).

This also allow me to take the HU completely out of the equation and replace it on a whim, with another tri-out deck of my choosings and not be limited to x-over features built in. Using the same train of thought, I also decided against using any amplifier built-in x-overs for the same reason.....

As far as gain settings go, I am acustomed to the AudioControl voltage dummy lights and have never had a problem setting up my signal path, even stacking multiples.

Thanks again guys,
I really appreciate the feedback.
Allan

Last edited by Allan74; 08-25-2010 at 09:26 AM..
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