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Old 03-01-2007   #26
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

thank you for that!

i want to clear these things up before rumors get out of hand:

100 percent true facts!

this is NOT a merger of two companies

ED will be authorized Dealer for DLS on the web

ALL MAP pricing will be strictly observed.

A list of ALL DLS dealers will be listed on the site, encouraging epople to go to their local dealers if they have one. There is NO price incentive to a customer to buy online.

Only the reference and ultimate line of amps, ultimate line of spekares, ultimate line of subs, and a fe niche products (3-4 channels, coaxials etc, not avaiable in ED's line up) will be sold

ED did not approach DLS in tis agreement in ANY way as a way to benefit themselves only. I am the one who thought of the idea, and it started as a way to help DLS get more recognition and reach the areas where there are no DLS dealers present.


thats all I swear that i am telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth

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Old 03-01-2007   #27
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

so help me God .

thanks for all the info! good luck to both eD and DLS.

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Old 03-01-2007   #28
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

ooo you are in my town, LOVE to hear your Car sometimes...do you know vestax?

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Old 03-01-2007   #29
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

That will certainly make it simpler than the indirect system that MobileSQ apparently had use. Definitely all for the free and open exchange of information.

I have no reason to doubt you at all, simplicityinsound. Now, go fix the photographs on your Web site so that I can see them properly
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Old 03-01-2007   #30
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

i am not very uh...web design literate, but hoenstly, everyone i ask who uses IE seem to see them fine!

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Old 03-01-2007   #31
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

anybody else remember when eD and Tru joined forces?

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Old 03-01-2007   #32
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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ooo you are in my town, LOVE to hear your Car sometimes...do you know vestax?
yes sir i know anthony. He's the one that actually told me about you and your site. check yours pm .

and sure you can stop by anytime man! but be warned of an ugly install . but it works, lol.

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Old 03-01-2007   #33
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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i am not very uh...web design literate, but hoenstly, everyone i ask who uses IE seem to see them fine!
IE is for old, entrenched people In practical terms though, IE's market share is getting smaller everyday. Got to be cross browser baby!

Beautiful work though.
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Old 03-01-2007   #34
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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I sincerely hope I didn't sound judgemental or negative.
While it is probably known that I am not an ED fan, I don't attempt slam them seven times in every thread with their name. I agree exactly with what you said - just that the implications of the things you mentioned makes me think more negatively about ED than some other people.

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Old 03-01-2007   #35
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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IE is for old, entrenched people In practical terms though, IE's market share is getting smaller everyday. Got to be cross browser baby!

Beautiful work though.
thank you sir
are you calling me OLD??!?! lol approaching 30 in a few months, i DO feel old! man, i can still remember the day i turned 20 and how mature i felt! lol

dragonerage, good observation and i applaud you for your openmindedness. I dont believe DLS products will decrease in quality at all because of this, and i am going to do my part and makiing sure any past mistakes will not happen with the DLS-Ed partnership

but again, i will let the actions do the talking in due time

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Old 03-01-2007   #36
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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thank you sir
are you calling me OLD??!?! lol approaching 30 in a few months, i DO feel old! man, i can still remember the day i turned 20 and how mature i felt! lol
Get back to me when you turn 50. Actually, I'll be 70 then so this probably won't work out
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Old 03-01-2007   #37
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

who knows, maybe by then we will be onto units that can teleport, clone, and mineaturize a band so you acn acutally physically have a 3" tall brand of people playing music on your dash! for unsurpassed staging and imaging! lol...of course, everyone would be committing mass murder as they throw them out the window on the high way at 300 mph as theyh teleport in the next band lol

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Old 03-01-2007   #38
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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who knows, maybe by then we will be onto units that can teleport, clone, and mineaturize a band so you acn acutally physically have a 3" tall brand of people playing music on your dash! for unsurpassed staging and imaging! lol...of course, everyone would be committing mass murder as they throw them out the window on the high way at 300 mph as theyh teleport in the next band lol
Ha! About 20 years ago I did some work with Matt Polk's wife. He and I used to get into some dreamy conversations that pissed his wife off big time. We were convinced that by now he would be out of the Speaker business everyone would have had direct inputs installed in their brains He's out of the Speaker business, but in a completely different way than we imagined.
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Old 03-01-2007   #39
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

all i saw in my first glance at that post was "I...work...matt polk's wife"

so is the polk deal final? havnet followed it lately

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Old 03-01-2007   #40
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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all i saw in my first glance at that post was "I...work...matt polk's wife"

so is the polk deal final? havnet followed it lately
She's an architect and a nice woman, but not in that way, at least not to me. As far as I know it is, I haven't kept in touch.

Funny thing. When they first met, he was building speakers in his garage. Her friends told her to blow him off because he would never amount to anything.
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Old 03-01-2007   #41
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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Funny thing. When they first met, he was building speakers in his garage. Her friends told her to blow him off because he would never amount to anything.
I LOVE those kinds of stories.
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Old 03-01-2007   #42
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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I LOVE those kinds of stories.
Yeah, but why are they always about someone else?
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Old 03-01-2007   #43
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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While it is probably known that I am not an ED fan, I don't attempt slam them seven times in every thread with their name. I agree exactly with what you said - just that the implications of the things you mentioned makes me think more negatively about ED than some other people.
I'm with you on this. I had some startlingly difficult interactions with them as a consequence of SDS. Really like nothing I had ever seen before. Even more intense were the roles played by some of their customers. The entire thing was bewildering and led me to take a very close look at the way they conducted themselves.

At one point the only possible conclusion I could draw was that they were immoral, amoral or incompetent, or some combination. They claimed to be incompetent and I was even more amazed by how many of their customers supported that as a valid defense. I wondered if they were a cult.

The conflict involved absolutely false statements and deliberately exagerated specs. That would have been the end of it for me, but they are still putting products on the market and after a few conversations, I can't state with any certainty that they are not be trying clean their act up.

I think ED has benefited from the bashing. Anytime their products come up, there are inevitably strong reactions, both pro and con. The lovers come in with the 10 times better at 1/10th the price crap and the haters go with the Trotskyite murderer routine. Every reasonable person is going to reject the insane negatives, leaving only the insane positives. Add the impression made by a heavily controlled forum that isn't completely upfront about being a company marketing tool and you have a company with a reputation that is difficult for newcomers to judge.

They seem to have avoided being murdered by Russian mobsters so they will probably be around for awhile. Let's all try to keep a level head, keep watching and see how it develops. Everybody makes mistakes, but it is critical that pointing them out not always be disnmissed as bashing.
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Old 03-01-2007   #44
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

absolutely Don.

I thik the very important thing is, that we make absolutely sure that NOTHING of this sort happens with DLS products. Whcih in all honesty, shouldnt be difficult. We will be providing our own specs, and pricing will be monitored to make sure it follows MAP. and we wont be doing pre-sales, or making false advertisements.

I am aware of the issues you stated wtih ED...though i think depending how you look at it, it varies as to its potency. Misrepresenting products on the bases of marketing, is unfortuantely, a common practice in the 12volt field..no?

I can tell you taht a few manufactuere, even well respected ones, have products - subs and speakers, amps, that fall no where NEAR their specs posted online when you bench test it. I dont want to name names, but there are quite a few as you know.

also, many manufactuers have ambiguous listings of specs for their product, remember when eclipse just claimed ONE inch of excursion on their alum subs without any quantification? or perhaps 60 db/octave crossovers taht turned out to be unproven when tested? and of course, manufactueres that horribly over state the Power output and THD claims.

i think the main issue that people ahd with ED is maybe because the way they reacted to these allegations? and of course, doing buienss solely online has these downsides as well, since everyone can voice their opinion online.

but i think at the end of the day, many people remain loyal to ED based on their experience with their current prodcuts. I for one, have installed quite a few int he last year, porbably 50-60 pieces, and i have never beend isappointed with their performance. and with waranty issues, i have never been left hanging either. and i think there are still people who do like them for that fact.

as far as their products, their amps seem to put out their stated Power if not a bit more and pretty clean, and reliable, their subs and Speaker again seem to match their claims relatively well and remain reliable. sound deadener, i profess, is not something that i look into interms of specs a lot, all i care about is that it does deaden rattles (whcih edead does), and is easy to work with (whcih it is), i compeltely agree there are inch fo inch better deadeners out there...but overall, i havent seen a need when i do installations, to switch out of Edead...does that make sense?
as far as policing of icix...i may not agree wtih all the practices of course, but they do own it at the end of the day...would you say carsound.com's forums are also over policed because of certain conflicts of interest?

in the end, the goal is to make sure the DLS stuff sold through ED are fairly represented

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Old 03-01-2007   #45
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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sound deadener, i profess, is not something that i look into interms of specs a lot, all i care about is that it does deaden rattles (whcih edead does), and is easy to work with (whcih it is), i compeltely agree there are inch fo inch better deadeners out there...but overall, i havent seen a need when i do installations, to switch out of Edead...does that make sense?
Just to be clear, what I'm talking about is flat out stating that their former version of eDead was butyl (Ben Milne on ECA) when it was asphalt and then overstating the mass by 25%. The overstated mass was particularly galling because they claimed it was caused by weighing a roll, on the core, in the box, on a broken bathroom scale and then refused to change it. Certainly hasn't motivated me to put any effort into revising SDS to change from the old version to the new - which will be happening in a few weeks by the way

It has also been troubling to see their reps repeating the nonsense that the new versions of eDead are >= Dynamat Xtreme. They actually aren't even close and I'm pretty well convinced they aren't even cheaper when you consider how much of each you need to get the same result.

The thing is, I'm not sure they know that. I've corresponded with Chris (AKA mandos) and he seems like a decent enough guy, but he continues to insist that mass is the only factor at play (despite this, they apparently chose to deal with the specs issue by no longer posting the mass on their site). The problem is, people listen to them. They've seen they can make a buck selling their deadener, particularly if they exagerate its quality - intentionally or unintentionally. Responsibility comes with trust. How can you claim your product is the best when you don't understand the basic principles of how it works? It is better than nothing, but they cut corners in a way that fundamentally reduces the product's effectiveness.

At least they have stopped selling the worthless stuff they pushed for so long. One of the things that really disturbed me were the number of emails I got from people who were relieved to learn it was crap. They had spent hours following the installation instructions to the letter, had the deadener fail and were told it was completely their own fault, user error, not covered under warranty. I can't imagine paying a premium for something I could have bought at Lowes, going to all that effort and having that result and reaction from the company that sold it to me.

That's one of the things we will have to watch. There are plenty of people out there spewing hate for the fun of it. There are also plenty who have been betrayed and have legitimate complaints. Interestingly, many of them are silent because the experience was humiliating and they are embarrassed.
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Old 03-01-2007   #46
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

i am on the exact same page as you. I would never call Edead the same as dynamat extreme, i even tell my customers that it isnt, and inch for inch, dynamat is more effective. but I hate cut fingers on dynamat extreme hehe..

it would be nice to know who these reps are saying this...they are either completely misinformed or hmm...

as far as effectiveness per dollar, I do still thik the new butyl edead (the only edead i acutally have any experience with) is more of a value than Dynamic extreme, having come from using all dynamat when i was back east, to pretty much all Edead now...again, based on my installation experiences...then again, maybe its cause i work on a lot newer cars here in CA than before

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Old 03-01-2007   #47
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

Interesting merger.

My only real comment is, ED being authorized to sell DLS stuff is cool and all, but if they are locked in to MAP, who is going to buy their stuff? Might as well deal with the authorized retailers that are readily available if you know where to look, or the "other" means of obtaining product with the rise of the internet, which is going to continue regardless of what/how ED works out. I mean hell there are multiple sources on this very forum to obtain DLS from.

I hope it works well for DLS and gets their name out to more people. I certainly consider it a large notch above the ED stuff, I have recommended their components to a lot of people without a single complaint yet.

My experience with ED stuff however was pretty disappointing, even for the price. Dayton is a much better value.

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Old 03-01-2007   #48
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

Not a merger.
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Old 03-01-2007   #49
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

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Originally Posted by MiloX View Post
Not a merger.
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Old 03-01-2007   #50
 
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Default Re: DLS and Elemental Designs Join forces

*smirks* I think it's all good.
People interested in ED will continue to support ED. They will just now also be exposed to DLS.

I've personally found my interactions with Pinney/Florida to be completely without benefit. In my experience, if it's not sales oriented then you might as well be talking to an answering machine. And then if that sales call pertains to specifics then you might still be left to pm's with team members, competitors who use the line, and the ilk.

Regardless, I think it’s a great idea...excellent idea.

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