You have a lot of bad things to say about something that haven't even hit the market?
Nice...
Kelvin
Maybe us SoCal beach guys are just stupid. I hope when they are done with their insight, that they will send us their unit since we do not even have final samples yet. We can go to the brewery and see how they figured so much out about something that doesn't exist.
I tend to agree with you. So let me ask you a question... Which one would you get rid one from a business stand point?
Power Class - high end
Nope!
Sedona - entry level
Nope!
Phantom - Mini
Nope!
Black Ice - mid level
Nope!
lol We think need all of them. Obviously the entry level is a crucial item that sells alot. Gotta have the step up mid series for the guys who is more passionate and wants more performance. And with minis getting so popular, we missed the boat in the beginning and now must comply with market demand. So that leaves the high end PC series. As an enthusiast, I say keep it, but if I owned the company and one series had to go, it would be PC since it will sell the least until people are willing to support the industry again.
So what would you do?
Grizz,
I have to agree with you here. Thanks for clearing up the confusion on the differences in the products. Perhaps maybe a Epsilon differentiators thread so you can explain all of the details about how they are different. Will PPI and SS be a big part of SBN, will you be there?
He likes Blues Car Audio & Linear Power. Everything else is "useless" by his standards.
I don't think I've seen many positive post from him about other brands.
Kelvin
You're shitting me right? I loved Liner power before I had kid and grandkids. Nice amps. Zero protection back in the day, but hey maybe that is the technology we need to go back to? Your thoughts?
Kole is dead and gone. Farenheit is all video and is a premier line for expediters. SPL is our entry level line even though there are a couple of killer pieces int he line. power Acoustik is the mid line and the bread and butter of the company. Soundstream is the high end company that has a lot of SPL equipment and some SQ pieces. PPI is another high end line that we bought really cheap and can turn into a very profitable company again and will be more versatile than before. Let's face it guys, SQ is nice but the money is in SPL and the boomer kid. I am not 100% positive, I cannot think of a single board that is in the PA lines that is in SS or PPI. Not one. However, I can tell you that the Black Ice is a new board, but it is based off of the Rubicon which is a damn good start.
You are very right though. Some of the PA boards will be in the SPL products as well. But just because we own all the companies does not mean it will also be the same. We need each brand because each makes money. It's like DEI pretty much owning the security market. They couldn't with one brand, but they do with all the brands combined...
Thanks for taking the time to explain this and I apologize if I came off like a jackass.
That brings up another thought... It must be tough having both the Soundstream Reference and Precision power Power Class lines competing against one another.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
The Black Ice amps look very cool and seem to offer serious power, especially that 2100 watt monster. Is that power rating legit RMS or the dreaded "Max"? What kind of components are used in the BI series? When will all these new goodies start to ship?
Not sure on ship dates just yet but hopefully not too long! We do not do max ratings in PPI or SS, only SS, EXCEPT FOR PRO AUDIO which is only rated MAX as it have been for decades before it ever made it to car audio...
I have to agree with you here. Thanks for clearing up the confusion on the differences in the products. Perhaps maybe a Epsilon differentiators thread so you can explain all of the details about how they are different. Will PPI and SS be a big part of SBN, will you be there?
October through now is hell for me because I have no help at work to finish products, CES, etc... Anyway, forum are normally where people whine and bitch which is why I abandoned them for about a decade. Many people here will email directly to learn about the products. Or they post and want to hear. I may not always have all the right answers, but they are truthful.
SBN? Never heard of it. JUST KIDDING!!! Two years ago, IASCA introduced the Bruce Terrel Award. We won it both years for being the most supportive manufacturer. In the last two years we won 19 and 22 trophies with Team Soundstream. This year I went from a 20x40 booth to a 25x80 booth! We have 3 dist training rooms and over 30 vehicles so far, more than ever. So yeah, we'll be there bigger than ever. I love the IASCA guys and they know that we get it! I will be there from Thursday through Tuesday. Since thursday is Saint Paddy's day, I'll be at the Irish Pub, Robbie O'Connels for several hours. If you haven't heard, I like beer a little bit, Actually, alot of my team is staying at the same resort so we'll have a cool posse of peeps hanging around. Stop by and introduce yourself!
You're shitting me right? I loved Liner power before I had kid and grandkids. Nice amps. Zero protection back in the day, but hey maybe that is the technology we need to go back to? Your thoughts?
Not one product that will ever come out of Epsilon will ever compare to a Linear power or Blues product. You are on one level....and they are far above that. There is something called sound quality.....I am sure thats a new phrase to Epsilon. Might want to grab a dictionary.
Its not even worth discussing with you....your market is not the same.
Not one product that will ever come out of Epsilon will ever compare to a Linear power or Blues product. You are on one level....and they are far above that. There is something called sound quality.....I am sure thats a new phrase to Epsilon. Might want to grab a dictionary.
Its not even worth discussing with you....your market is not the same.
But once I did the preamps section on the new Rubicons, there really wasn't anything left to be desired so I put the same basic preamps on everything since and have not gotten a complaint
Thanks for taking the time to explain this and I apologize if I came off like a jackass.
That brings up another thought... It must be tough having both the Soundstream Reference and Precision power Power Class lines competing against one another.
Nah, you're cool man. PPI is so new so we had a prototype car at SBN last year, but this year I have a huge PPI SQ surprise car that is going to attempt something never before done. And possibly 1-2 other guys that are going to be there. Alot of people think that SS is only SPL, but Jeff to home world championships last year against a car with $50k dash. Getting people to try SQ products is not easy. Team JBL and Zapco own the SQ arena as far as I have seen. I would glady put up a ref amp in a 3rd party contest between us 3 brands. It would interesting to see the differences and I think the results would surprise alot of people, especially the "old school 15-20 years old amps are better" guys... I love contests! No childish threats, just for fun and learning for all of us...
Nah, you're cool man. PPI is so new so we had a prototype car at SBN last year, but this year I have a huge PPI SQ surprise car that is going to attempt something never before done. And possibly 1-2 other guys that are going to be there. Alot of people think that SS is only SPL, but Jeff to home world championships last year against a car with $50k dash. Getting people to try SQ products is not easy. Team JBL and Zapco own the SQ arena as far as I have seen. I would glady put up a ref amp in a 3rd party contest between us 3 brands. It would interesting to see the differences and I think the results would surprise alot of people, especially the "old school 15-20 years old amps are better" guys... I love contests! No childish threats, just for fun and learning for all of us...
So which line is going to be better for SQ? PPI or SS?
I definitely like the copper and black look of the PPI stuff, but I also like the look of the SS REF amps. I think he Phantom and PDX are the best looking lines that PPI has, but they don't really "match".
The new source units look nice. I had heard with the PA units you couldn't use the nav and music at the same time, has this been changed?
Not one product that will ever come out of Epsilon will ever compare to a Linear power or Blues product. You are on one level....and they are far above that. There is something called sound quality.....I am sure thats a new phrase to Epsilon. Might want to grab a dictionary.
Its not even worth discussing with you....your market is not the same.
Wow! I sure am glad you know everything How many world titles have you had? How many years have you been engineering transducers, amplifiers or anything for that matter? Did you not have any qualifications that I asked for previously that you could share? I am, glad you like what you have. Really, I am. And I am glad that you think that engineering had gotten worse and degraded over the last 2 decades. If that works for ya, great. BTW, what Blues car audio company are you referring to. Are you referring to the old Blues company that was acoustic based? If so, it just so happens that the head engineer was my mentor for years in the 90s so I can tell you all about his works dating back to 19 years with Altec Lansing. So let's chat, shall we? Where do we go first? Oh yeah... Qualifications. I'll start...
I am not an amplifier engineer and never claimed to be. You are obviously, so you beat me there. Where did you learn?
I have 27 years experience. You?
I have been to almost every country in both Asia and South America, plus Europe, Canada, Mexico, etc. All doing from 4 hour to full weekend seminars. You?
I have several transducers that I have engineered on the market. You?
I have written For Car Audio & Electronics, Car Stereo Review, Auto Sound & Security, and more magazines. And then there is all the websites... You?
Man, I am not the smartest guy on here, and even thought you think you are, you might want to be humble around some of the guru that float around on here. Man, some of those guys are badass and forgot more than I'll ever know.
It is impossible to know about a product before it exists. Making statements about non existing products only degrades oneself. And then to compare it to 15-20 year old products is not a good idea either. Gary Springgay said it best when he talked about old school products versus new stuff. You really need to find the article and read it.
In the future, try to learn, since you definitely are not teaching. I love to learn from the more knowledgeable. If you hate PPI, go away and start learning why. But hanging out just to embarrass yourself is not pretty...
Perfect! SO what would you like to see in the preamp section controls that is not there? Really, you gotta tell me. If you're right, I'll add it. Bring it!!!
Don't your old amps require the use of an external crossover and basically any sound processing? Just curious...
So which line is going to be better for SQ? PPI or SS?
I definitely like the copper and black look of the PPI stuff, but I also like the look of the SS REF amps. I think he Phantom and PDX are the best looking lines that PPI has, but they don't really "match".
The new source units look nice. I had heard with the PA units you couldn't use the nav and music at the same time, has this been changed?
We were not going for a match look because then you get all of one type of person and none of the the other type. Trying to be really diverse... In all honesty for amps, I would choose the REF based on paper specs. But the engineer designed both of them so sound will be very similar... For components, if you like the original German MB Quart and the bright, crispyness, then you would like the PCs better. If you prefer a more uncolored and smooth sound, then you would like the SS better.
But hey, to coincide with with other posts on this thread, maybe some 1980 Pyle Drivers might blow them away. Oh shit! That was funny! Almost peed on that one! lol
So which line is going to be better for SQ? PPI or SS?
I definitely like the copper and black look of the PPI stuff, but I also like the look of the SS REF amps. I think he Phantom and PDX are the best looking lines that PPI has, but they don't really "match".
The new source units look nice. I had heard with the PA units you couldn't use the nav and music at the same time, has this been changed?
Oops, fotgot the other part. Regarding the source units. We have NEVER released a unit, even the first ones, that could not have navigation and music at the same time. Another case of the manual being thrown away by some Einstein that was tool freaking cool to read it. If you hear form the guy again, Tell his to set his Navi, and then hold the source button down until it goes back to the radio. Radio will be in the fore front, and then the Navi will shut of some of the speakers and talk through the rest when directions are being given. Every unit is like that...
Don't your old amps require the use of an external crossover and basically any sound processing? Just curious...
There is a member on this forum who is running Linear power and Blues in USACi and a certain someone bragged about absolutely ZERO processing in that SQ competition vehicle. Care to guess what Mister "no processing" has housed in his dash under the head unit? An equalizer and an electronic crossover.
2012 Subaru WRX - JL Audio C5-650s run active off a Lunar L450; Digital Designs 1508 powered by a Lunar L1500; Pioneer DEH-80PRS as the source unit.
Cool! Thanks for the info. Do you know the xmax on the drivers by chance?
Not off the top of my head that has been working almost 15 hours, but I think the midbass is about 5-6mm and the the midrange is surprising at about 3-4mm. The mid can move until BL=0 and then still pop out of the gap without damage. But the crossovers will avoid the popping put scenario. The mid, as a stand alone unit truly is a wide bandwitdh driver, operating from 180Hz to 18kHz...
There is a member on this forum who is running Linear power and Blues in USACi and a certain someone bragged about absolutely ZERO processing in that SQ competition vehicle. Care to guess what Mister "no processing" has housed in his dash under the head unit? An equalizer and an electronic crossover.
You'e shitting me! Do I dare ask how you know? Hell, even if you were kidding, that would be funny as hell. Well on that funny note, I am outta here. I supposes I will have a bunch of hate mail in morning. Nothing new when I come on here... Thanx for the chuckle!
Oops, fotgot the other part. Regarding the source units. We have NEVER released a unit, even the first ones, that could not have navigation and music at the same time. Another case of the manual being thrown away by some Einstein that was tool freaking cool to read it. If you hear form the guy again, Tell his to set his Navi, and then hold the source button down until it goes back to the radio. Radio will be in the fore front, and then the Navi will shut of some of the speakers and talk through the rest when directions are being given. Every unit is like that...
Nice to know, I think I read it on an Amazon.com review actually.
Would you expect the pricing on the new PPI units to work out around the same as the PA ones? The PA ones are available on ebay for pretty cheap with the Navibox.
Actually, do these require the navibox or is it built in now?
Not off the top of my head that has been working almost 15 hours, but I think the midbass is about 5-6mm and the the midrange is surprising at about 3-4mm. The mid can move until BL=0 and then still pop out of the gap without damage. But the crossovers will avoid the popping put scenario. The mid, as a stand alone unit truly is a wide bandwitdh driver, operating from 180Hz to 18kHz...
Thanks Grizz, man I need to try these!
Soundstream Rubicon 1002,702,502,202 Hybrid audio Clarus 6.5 Diamond audio D612.
Not one product that will ever come out of Epsilon will ever compare to a Linear power or Blues product. You are on one level....and they are far above that. There is something called sound quality.....I am sure thats a new phrase to Epsilon. Might want to grab a dictionary.
Its not even worth discussing with you....your market is not the same.
Guy, you are making yourself look really bad with comments like that.
Grizz has never claimed the new SS or PPi stuff has the market cornered on SQ. You seem to be alittle too defensive about this subject. Maybe this thread isn't for you?
If you do not like the 90s, then you may not like the future. These were not intended to look 90s. I have been bitching for awhile not that some people do not fall for all the foo foo motor covers, amp spoilers and stuff like that. Some people want to pay for performance, not $100k in tooling. I get it, I am the same way. So next year, rather than spending $10 on a motor cover, you may get a longer voice coil, higher grade magnet, etc. Everybody at my company disagreed with my proposal, but recently my boss came on board after CES and everybody was craving old school stuff, not wussy entry level products with fancy covers that put cost higher tan it could've been...
We'll see if I made the right choice or if I made a horrific mistake...
Grizz, I think you got me wrong, I probably didn't word myself right; I'm not one for flashy covers and design, I'm a sucker for performance too. Heck, I don't even like the look of my Genesis SIII amps, but the build and sound quality out of them certainly overcompensate for the bling.
I too love old school stuff, but you'll have to admit that in the recent years we've seen some very clean and underrated designs by other brands; mainly because of ClassD and its small size ability, but for A/B amps as well. I'd very much like my beloved PPI brand to bring out something really special. The Phantom series could well be any brand out there. Perhaps I'm being sentimental...
FWIW I honestly think you've made the right choice.
PS: looking closely at that pic again (which I probably should've done before replying at an impulse earlier) the main thing that kind of spoils it for me are the end caps, I don't like the legs. A small detail, yeah, but something doesn't look right to me.
Guy, you are making yourself look really bad with comments like that.
Grizz has never claimed the new SS or PPi stuff has the market cornered on SQ. You seem to be alittle too defensive about this subject. Maybe this thread isn't for you?
Not one product that will ever come out of Epsilon will ever compare to a Linear power or Blues product. You are on one level....and they are far above that. There is something called sound quality.....I am sure thats a new phrase to Epsilon. Might want to grab a dictionary.
Its not even worth discussing with you....your market is not the same.
Actually, they did release this monster:
Their freq response is a true 10Hz-30kHz (less than 0.5dB variation), of course it goes lower and higher but it's actually really nice. I know a few higher bill amps that are -3dB @ 15Hz. A few more specs here.
As you can see, distorsion is on par with the best from Linear.
Waiting to hear your comment.
Kelvin
Lycan
Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Re: New PPI amps (Phantom & Black Ice)
Linear Mode
